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How Do We Fix The O-Line?

JimmyJohnsonsHair said:
I know we like to joke about our schedule but if we do not clean **** up on the OL even ACC defenses are going to give us problems. We also need to chill with the slow developing play action. That’s only exacerbating the problem.
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This is true. I should respect all the defenses left on the schedule but I also know that talent wise none of them really compare to the one we faced on Saturday.

I will say though that we have a very young and inexperienced OL and as the games go by they should get used to the speed of the game and get better. (That was the spirit of my post, not necessarily to bash ACC defenses.)
 
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Gator Hatar said:
Lets be honest, there was pressure up the middle too. We can focus on Campbell and Nelson, but Gaynor, Scaife and Donaldson were getting pushed back too. We just don't have the OL talent and just have to hope they get better.
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No doubt. Watch that game again and watch how much Gaynor is on the ground 5 yards back. From getting bulldozed.
 
Have to kick Scaife out and hope one of the other 11 guards can cause less of a disaster than Campbell at RT. Then teach Nelson the **** snap count. Disappointed in Barry so far.
 
WhatTheHell said:
Serious schematic/personnel discussions only.

Short of building a time machine and making guys like Evan Neal sign at gunpoint the last 3 seasons, what are our options?

1. Any chance Cleveland Reed be put at guard and Scaife/Donaldson be kicked out to Tackle? Are either of them versatile enough to slide out? How ready is Reed?

2. Herbert and Hillery should be given snaps vs UNC without a doubt. See how they respond in-game. I know people use this line a lot, but this time, it might actually be impossible to play worse than our tackles did last night.

3. Enos needs to go back to the drawing board. Spread the field, wider splits, stop trying to power run people like you’re at Bama. I believe our best runs of the night were made by DeeJay breaking 35 tackles out of the wildcat. We’re not bulldozing anyone in traditional offensive schemes.

4. Enos needs to help the tackles more. These guys were on islands a majority of the night. I think I saw some chipping and releasing toward the end, but let’s keep a tight end or a back in more often to help. Late in the 4th quarter, for example, DeeJay had one of the most beautiful blitz pickups I’ve ever seen.

5. I’d say more screens as an initial reaction to this issue, but I feel like we threw several.


So can we reconfigure the line and move a guard out to tackle? If not, Hillery and Herber have to get snaps vs UNC early. Find someone who can even put up a fight.

We allowed 16 tackles for loss, 11 sacks, and 5 QB hurries. Something has to change if we want any success in conference this year.

What’s your solution?
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YOUR AVATAR THOUGH!!!!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA!
 
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WhatTheHell said:
Serious schematic/personnel discussions only.

Short of building a time machine and making guys like Evan Neal sign at gunpoint the last 3 seasons, what are our options?

1. Any chance Cleveland Reed be put at guard and Scaife/Donaldson be kicked out to Tackle? Are either of them versatile enough to slide out? How ready is Reed?

2. Herbert and Hillery should be given snaps vs UNC without a doubt. See how they respond in-game. I know people use this line a lot, but this time, it might actually be impossible to play worse than our tackles did last night.

3. Enos needs to go back to the drawing board. Spread the field, wider splits, stop trying to power run people like you’re at Bama. I believe our best runs of the night were made by DeeJay breaking 35 tackles out of the wildcat. We’re not bulldozing anyone in traditional offensive schemes.

4. Enos needs to help the tackles more. These guys were on islands a majority of the night. I think I saw some chipping and releasing toward the end, but let’s keep a tight end or a back in more often to help. Late in the 4th quarter, for example, DeeJay had one of the most beautiful blitz pickups I’ve ever seen.

5. I’d say more screens as an initial reaction to this issue, but I feel like we threw several.


So can we reconfigure the line and move a guard out to tackle? If not, Hillery and Herber have to get snaps vs UNC early. Find someone who can even put up a fight.

We allowed 16 tackles for loss, 11 sacks, and 5 QB hurries. Something has to change if we want any success in conference this year.

What’s your solution?
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bags
 
Rewatched.

The problem by far is Campbell. I don't think we have a choice here, Scaife HAS to kick out. He caused more pressures than anyone on the line by far and theres a right tackle that proved to be reliable as a true freshman right next to him, move him over. We have tons of guards on this team. Find ONE that can play right guard good enough to keep us alive! For all the talk of Campbell's edge he's out there helping Gators up smh
 
PalyCane said:
Our problem


Yeah, I'm not sure what point D$ is making.

1. His OP seems to indicate we're talented enough on OL, it's just that our guys need experience. I don't know what he's basing that on. Last night we saw both tackles get manhandled. And that's all we know about them right now. We know that they are capable of being manhandled.

Maybe/hopefully (I'm rooting for this as hard as anyone) D$ is correct and they become cornerstone tackles in years to come. But that's pure speculation. Sure maybe his statement is correct that: "(they can) improve (their timing) significantly with experience. The strength can also come with the right body type, which I think they have." Or maybe not. There's no evidence right now that'll be the case. Only hopeful thinking.

2. Our two best OL from 2017/2018) are the two by far the highest rated guys by the metric of how many/all top-10/20 teams wanted them. It's not a perfect metric, in that no one bats 100%, but it's the best one I'm aware of. Of the four highest rated guys, Donaldson and Sciafe are players. Herbert and Reed haven't shown anything (though Reed might). So we're 2 of 4 with the highest rated guys.

In terms of the other guys not in that top four, we're 0-fer or maybe .5-fer (Gaynor) based on last night from the pool of (Hillery, Dykstra, Gaynor, and Campbell out of the 2017/2018 guys . We have guys we had to play last night. But except for Donaldson and Sciafe (for the 2 out of 4 top guys) the three guys from the lower ranked group were varying degrees of adequate (Gaynor) to terrible (Campbell (and Nelson from 2019)). These are the guys that few if any top-10 teams wanted. Maybe things change as those guys mature (and maybe Reed matures as well giving us 3 out of 4 for the top highly sought after recruits). But right now it's more wishing on D$'s part (and mine as well) than anything evidenced based.

And remember, that in excusing Campbell's terrible performance by saying he needs time to mature it is also the case that Sciafe...the more desired recruit from the same class...played better as a true Fresh and certainly last night. And the same is true of Donaldson's fresh and soph year. Again, while not 100% certain, recruiting from the pool of the most highly sought after guys will yield the greatest probability of not having to witness what we saw last night.

D$ every year you have a tendency to project the potential and future of our guys beyond what the evidence suggests. And then, after the fact you acknowledge the problems that you had previously argued away, as you're doing now. We don't want our OL to come form a pool of Hillery, Dykstra, Gaynor, Campbell and Nelson. It's not clear that any of them are top-10 team caliber OL. We want our OL to come from a pool of Donaldson, Sciafe, Reed and Herbert. At least from the latter group we're batting :500 in terms of top-10 team OL. with the former group we're batting .5 out of 4 (nic Nelson as he's a true fresh) so far.

3. This then should all culminate with an honest discussion about the probability we can build an OL worthy of our top-10 aspirations by recruiting guys like the lower two ranked recruits in the 2020 class. D$ thinks we can return to top-10 status by recruiting those guys, who are similar in terms of their (lack of) desirability by top-10 programs to guys like Hillery, Dykstra, Gaynor, Campbell and Nelson. I do not. Yes, some of those guys can occasionally pan out. But our experience in recent years, and so far this year, informs us that it's a low probability way of ending up with a top-10 quality OL compared to getting the Donaldson's and Sciafe's.

Again, it's not about "stars" per se, it's about the guys who coaches of top-10 programs think are good. There's been zero evidence that our recent OL coaches are smarter than top-10 team OL coaches, and better at identifying future stars out of the less desired guys. It's about probability, probility and probability.

4. Now what if we can't reliably and consistently get the Donaldson's and Sciafe's? Then we can't run the offensive system Enos is trying to run. Which I think is the case.It's not a fit given our perennial OL woes. But that's a whole 'nother story
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Again, this is the inconsistency I’m talking about. If star ratings are the best approximation of talent, as you suggest, Miami has maintained a very talented OL.

The line we started in the Pinstripe Bowl had a higher average rating than the line Clemson started in the title game. John Campbell had a ton of offers and a higher rating than 4/5 of Florida’s line. Scaife and Donaldson were huge recruits. Most ACC teams don’t have two four-star OL on the roster, much less two on the bench.

You say my discussion of talent is not based on “objective” measures, and then spend the rest of the post providing your opinion on our guys. If we are going purely off recruiting rankings, Miami measures up well with the non-Alabama teams of the world. It’s a matter of youth and development.
 
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The U Code said:
Laying off the excessive play action calls and using shotgun would help. Probably need to put Scaife at one tackle spot and keep an in line TE next to the other tackle. I am curious to see if a defense like UNC can expose the tackles the way UF did.
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Too many porsters are expecting an easy time vs UNC. That won’t happen.
 
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I think JC and Zion will be better. Of the 2, I feel much better about Zion after the rewatch. I think for future PA or deep drops, you have to be prepared to help out more.

One other thing of note is that we did a crappy job picking up blitzes. Have to shore that up.
 
I don't know what the fix is, if there even is one, but you hardly ever see 10 sacks in a game regardless of the opponent. There are lower division offensive lines that would have played better.
 
Go Canes!! said:
Dude tries for shock jock, instead proves he’s ignorant ****.
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Sorry to break up this pow wow between imbeciles, but no one called the “entire team a fraud.”

I realize the majority of our fans are uneducated simpletons, but if you’re going to have a support meeting crying about what I said, at least try to get it right, you nitwits.

Now talk OL or get the F out of the thread.
 
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Gator Hatar said:
Lets be honest, there was pressure up the middle too. We can focus on Campbell and Nelson, but Gaynor, Scaife and Donaldson were getting pushed back too. We just don't have the OL talent and just have to hope they get better.
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This here^^^^oline is always the last piece to the puzzle.it takes longer to develop olinemen than any other position.we have a going line and it had a couple nice long drives.hopefully by season's end it'll play a lot better.
 
DMoney said:
Again, this is the inconsistency I’m talking about. If star ratings are the best approximation of talent, as you suggest, Miami has maintained a very talented OL.

The line we started in the Pinstripe Bowl had a higher average rating than the line Clemson started in the title game. John Campbell had a ton of offers and a higher rating than 4/5 of Florida’s line. Scaife and Donaldson were huge recruits. Most ACC teams don’t have two four-star OL on the roster, much less two on the bench.

You say my discussion of talent is not based on “objective” measures, and then spend the rest of the post providing your opinion on our guys. If we are going purely off recruiting rankings, Miami measures up well with the non-Alabama teams of the world. It’s a matter of youth and development.
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The result on our OL has consistently floated between **** and average regardless of who is on the line over the past 15 years. We've had lines with numerous future professionals and the line play was still average on a good day.

So, if you are saying we have enough talent, then why does the line consistently under perform these rankings?
 
WhatTheHell said:
Sorry to break up this pow wow between imbeciles, but no one called the “entire team a fraud.”

I realize the majority of our fans are uneducated simpletons, but if you’re going to have a support meeting crying about what I said, at least try to get it right, you nitwits.

Now talk OL or get the F out of the thread.
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Maybe I should just switch over to your Manny is the Cuban Randy Shannon thread, you ignorant racist doofus.
 
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