How can this be - the data

Thats a deflection. If the topic is talent the past decade or so, then it absolutely matters that 4 of the 9 kids you mentioned were ‘08 and prior kids.

If you read the OP, the topic is talent over the past 15 years. You should know, it’s your thread.

As for the present, we have three kids on our team right now who will make pre-season All American teams. Hopefully, we can get that kind of production out of them because the talent is there.
 
Advertisement
This is a fact: Campbell went from a sure first rounder his sophomore year, as he put up close to 11 sacks and like 20 TFL, to like 6 or 7 sacks and there were games where he was washed out. Arizona picked him in the 2nd round b/c of his total body of work, and who wouldn't want a mountain of a man along w/ his potential. You are exactly right, though. Big step back from Junior from Soph year.
Set the trend for the UM junior year sabbatical.
 
It’s not as bad as you say. The bias is at DB - because the Thorpe award is basically an Oklahoma prize. Morgan was the most decorated college LB ever. McKinnie got the Outland and other awards. Dorsey won tons of awards, just not the heisman. We have two Heismans in Vinny and Toretta. All fans think their guys should more awards.
disagree
we got ****ed
Sean Taylor
Willis should have won Heisman
did e reed even win a Thorpe?
Many more

Recently JJ should have been all American the year of the chain.
 
If you read the OP, the topic is talent over the past 15 years. You should know, it’s your thread.

As for the present, we have three kids on our team right now who will make pre-season All American teams. Hopefully, we can get that kind of production out of them because the talent is there.
The topic is laid out in the OP. No AAs since ‘06. It’s obviously part of an ongoing discussion around here about talent. Mentioning first round picks from 14 years ago doesn’t do much for the discussion, IMO.

But you are right that we probably have a few kids in ‘20 with as good a shot to make it as we’ve had in a long while. King has his work cut out for him given the nature of the QB spot and the other top QBs out there. Jordan and Rousseau have legit shots. Hopefully they perform at a level that merits the award.
 
disagree
we got ****ed
Sean Taylor
Willis should have won Heisman
did e reed even win a Thorpe?
Many more

Recently JJ should have been all American the year of the chain.
I mentioned the DB / Thorpe topic, so that covered reed and taylor. JJ was beat out for first team AA. I mentioned who and why above. He didn’t get screwed, IMO. McGahee is the guy with a complaint, I think. He shoulda have won it.
 
Advertisement
King has his work cut out for him given the nature of the QB spot and the other top QBs out there. Jordan and Rousseau have legit shots. Hopefully they perform at a level that merits the award.

I have Roche as the third guy with AA potential.

Don’t see him as a first round type in terms of tools but he is productive and should eat opposite Rousseau in a sack-happy system. He will be on the field a lot too due to the nature of Lashlee’s offense.
 
I have Roche as the third guy with AA potential.

Don’t see him as a first round type in terms of tools but he is productive and should eat opposite Rousseau in a sack-happy system. He will be on the field a lot too due to the nature of Lashlee’s offense.
Which of the guys I mentioned do you not have on your list? All four may have shots but imo Roche eats because of Rousseau and that reduces his chance for AA acclaim. If King and Lashlee click, it’s not impossible he surprises crb, though lawrence and fields are likely battling out for first team AA.
 
Which of the guys I mentioned do you not have on your list? All four may have shots but imo Roche eats because of Rousseau and that reduces his chance for AA acclaim. If King and Lashlee click, it’s not impossible he surprises crb, though lawrence and fields are likely battling out for first team AA.

King just because of the nature of the position. But I can see him having a star turn if the pieces fall into place.
 
Miami last had an All American in 2005. That's stunning in its own right, but I thought I'd look at what happened in the years since. I tried to get it all right but probably botched a kid or two here or there, but here's what I found. From 2006 -- 2019:

- 83 different teams had at least one AA. (I’m counting AA seasons, so a kid who makes it two years in a row counts as two AA seasons for his school.)
- In Florida, FSU, UF, FAU, USF and UCF all have had one.
- In the ACC, every team other than Miami and VT have had AA s over this stretch -- viz., FSU, Clemson, Virginia, NCST, UNC, Duke, GA Tech, BC, Syracuse, Louisville, Pitt

- Alabama destroys everyone else, with 35 AAs over this period. Next were Oklahoma, LSU and Ohio State with 16 each.
- After this group, the next group included Clemson, FSU, Texas, Wisconsin, Stanford, A&M and Michigan, all with 10 or more.
- In the 5-9 range, you had Oklahoma State, Florida, Baylor, USC, Missouri, Iowa, Georgia, Notre Dame and Utah (7-9 each) followed by Oregon, Arkansas, TCU, Penn State, Auburn, UCLA and Michigan St. (5-6 each).
- Schools with 3-4 each were Boston College, Arizona, Texas Tech, Tenn., Oregon St., Arizona St., Memphis, Washington, Ole Miss, Wash. St., Kentucky and Cal

- The following schools all have had 2 AAs since Miami last had one: Colorado, Purdue, Boise St., South Carolina, Illinois, Pitt, Colorado St., Kansas St., Louisville, San Diego St., Houston, NCST, Wake, Cincy, WVA, Nebraska and Duke.
- The following schools all have had an AA since Miami last had one: Toledo, Northern Illinois, Western Michigan, Temple, LA Tech, Kent St., Tulane, Vanderbilt, Wake Forest, UCF, USF, FAU, Idaho, BYU, New Mexico, Massachusetts, Indiana, Fresno St., Syracuse, Utah State, GA Tech, Minnesota, North Carolina and Virginia.

I'm interested to hear theories on this. Our coaching and schemes may be bad, but kids from 83 schools made AA over this period! Kids from obscure schools made it.

It may be improbable that any given kid makes AA. But over 14 years, we're zero for every kid we suited up - that cannot be probable. Oklahoma St. has had 9 AAs in this period. Missouri, Iowa and Utah posted 7 each during this period. USC, which has also been bad, has had 8. UCLA had 5. Arizona and Tennessee had 4, Arizona State and Memphis had 3, as did Kentucky, California and Washington State. Illinois, Wake Forest and Duke have had 2!

I think there are a few things going on here: (a) obviously, poor evaluations left us with too little top level talent; (b) what talent we've had has too often left early, missing the chance to accomplish a lot on the field; (c) some of our kids didn't put out the effort they should have, either because they were too NFL focused on believed the hype about them that fan boards provided; and (d) our staffs didn't help put kids in a position to succeed. However, placing the explanation all on (d) sounds like deep denial when the numbers are this stark. Kids from other schools succeeded in touch circumstances.

How can it be this bad? We had 5 AAs in the 1950s, 10 in the 1960s, 10 in the 1970s, 16 in the 1980s, 18 in the 1990s and 22 from 2000--2005. Then, none. Zero. Zilch. Zip. Nada.
Crappy recruiting and player development. Looking at the coaching staffs we’ve had. That’s the biggest problem.
 
Advertisement
Theres nothing to disagree on. I was as big a flowers fan as there was on this site when we were recruiting him. Like him. Root for him. he wasn’t an all american and didn’t deserve to be based on his play at UM. He was drafted on athletic potential, not AA creds. Campbell did not deserve to be an AA either. Just because they’re good, tough kids and played for a team we root for doesn’t mean they merited AA in any particular season.
I do disagree. Laken Tomlinson did not have a better career. Actually, just from looking at that class you left out Clive Walford. Who was an All American TE from the U in 2014. Brush up on that “research.”
 
I do disagree. Laken Tomlinson did not have a better career. Actually, just from looking at that class you left out Clive Walford. Who was an All American TE from the U in 2014. Brush up on that “research.”
Clive Walford was not an AA. That is just false. Nick O’Leary was the AA TE in ‘14.

And I don’t know what you mean by ‘have a better career.’ AA awards are for performance during that season in CFB.

Here are all the guys who got AA mention for OL in ‘14. Flowers isn’t on the long list, let alone the consensus first team AA list. Heck, he didn’t even make first team all-ACC.

Offensive line[edit]
 
Last edited:
Clive Walford was not an AA. That is just false. Nick O’Leary was the AA TE in ‘14.

And I don’t know what you mean by ‘have a better career.’ AA awards are for performance during that season in CFB.

Here are all the guys who got AA mention for OL in ‘14. Flowers isn’t on the long list, let alone the consensus first team AA list. Heck, he didn’t even make first team all-ACC.

Offensive line[edit]
No. Walford was behind Leary as the second team AA. He was on several mentions. Walford had a much better pro career as well. I said Laken Tomlinson when I compared Flowers.
 
In all fairness, Calais played his entire junior campaign with a detached tendon on his groin. He had surgery to repair it after the season, and the Doc couldn't believe he'd played with that injury at all. If you've ever had a groin injury and tried running up steps, think of what he accomplished sucking up the pain every game. NFL teams who passed on this cat in the draft are crying, but the injury was so serious he slipped to the 2nd for a reason.
 
Advertisement
No. Walford was behind Leary as the second team AA. He was on several mentions. Walford had a much better pro career as well. I said Laken Tomlinson when I compared Flowers.
I don’t know what arguments you think you are responding to. I have made very clear in this thread the criteria I relied upon. I didn’t make any argument about who was better between O’Leary and Walford. Those are different discussions. You’re inventing arguments.
 
In all fairness, Calais played his entire junior campaign with a detached tendon on his groin. He had surgery to repair it after the season, and the Doc couldn't believe he'd played with that injury at all. If you've ever had a groin injury and tried running up steps, think of what he accomplished sucking up the pain every game. NFL teams who passed on this cat in the draft are crying, but the injury was so serious he slipped to the 2nd for a reason.

That explains it!

I expected Calais to destroy cfb. He was solid as a junior, but disappointing in comparisons to the growth you expected after his sophomore year. He was a MONSTER.

I respect him even more after learning this. When he fell off in his final year at UM, I thought he might struggle in the pros. All these years later he proved those concerns to be unfounded.
 
Advertisement
To be an All American on offense, you need to put up great numbers for a contender or put up mind boggling numbers for an also-ran. The only player who comes close in recent history is Duke Johnson’s junior year. But even then you’re competing with backs who are rushing for 2000 yards. We’ve had below average offenses almost every year.

Defense is a bit more of a popularity contest. The top defenders on the top teams usually make the list. You also get rewarded for “career achievement” even though it’s supposed to be a one year award. Ed Oliver got statistically worse every year he stayed in college but he still got the recognition. Miami doesn’t have guys stuck around long enough to gain career recognition. They have one good season and then they leave. Or they coast off that one season and leave.

I would say Miami has two legit first team AA candidates for 2020. Another double digit sack season will give GR serious credibility. And if Brevin Jordan stays healthy, he’ll put up great numbers at a position where there’s not a ton of guys who have ridiculous stats. A guy like D’Eriq King has an outside shot but they’re going to give the lifetime achievement award to Trevor Lawrence most likely.
 
tenor (30).gif
 
Duke and Quan are the only guy that really seemed to give a **** once the wheels fell off, as they did every season. And those guys were both undersized, so probably overproduced, but not to the level of first team AA.

I think it’s a culture problem first and foremost. Tommy Streeter has an amazing junior season then declared, only to vanish in the league. Way too much of that over the past 15 years.
 
Advertisement
Back
Top