Hiring a head coach who's a "recruiter"

[stormbrewing]

Saban needs a south Florida connection to help him lock up the Ridleys of the world. No matter how much success other teams have it is still tough to pull some kids from Miami. It's in Sabans best interest to pay big money to a guy with South Florida roots

 

[daddacane]

The knowledge of DoNo is shown in this video...He states the best safety the "U" ever had ran a 4.68 forty....RIP Sean Taylor...

 

[Cribby]

I'm not hating on him, he's just not qualified for the UM job. Not even close.

No doubt. He should not be our head coach.

But if Butch wanted to bring him in as an OL coach (which is what we've been talking about), it makes plenty of sense. No idea why people are arguing so passionately against it.

Oh, that's fine lol.

I've been working and just popping my head in. My apologies .

 

[Al Foil]

500k ain't s**t in today's CFB coaching world.

Tavares Robinson makes more at Auburn.

 

[DMoney]

What do you think, though, about the possibility of Mario being slapped with the "head coach in waiting" label if he's a part of Butch's proposed staff? Doesn't that become a dealbreaker for you?

The "head coach in waiting" thing is just fluff to me.

Number one, Butch doesn't sound like he wants to retire any time soon. Number two, the only way Mario would actually become the head coach is if the Butch regime was highly successful. So it's not something I'm concerned about.

 

[NVA CANE]

I'm not hating on him, he's just not qualified for the UM job. Not even close.

No doubt. He should not be our head coach.

But if Butch wanted to bring him in as an OL coach (which is what we've been talking about), it makes plenty of sense. No idea why people are arguing so passionately against it.

Do you think he would make a lateral move without getting more in return, maybe a title or more responsibility or promises of getting the job when Butch (if it's him) moves on? I think that kind of scenario or set up would bother me more than anything else.

 

[FullyERicht]

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

Because he needed an OL coach? Bc his staff keeps getting plucked for other jobs?

Again, they recruit themselves bc they win. It's really quite simple.

 

[Cribby]

What do you think, though, about the possibility of Mario being slapped with the "head coach in waiting" label if he's a part of Butch's proposed staff? Doesn't that become a dealbreaker for you?

The "head coach in waiting" thing is just fluff to me.

Number one, Butch doesn't sound like he wants to retire any time soon. Number two, the only way Mario would actually become the head coach is if the Butch regime was highly successful. So it's not something I'm concerned about.

I don't like the hciw tag, it can eventually get chaotic . Egos clash and , the hciw gets frustrated with the wait.

It's just asking for trouble , it can work it's way into the lockerroom and split the lockerroom . Too many negatives versus the positive.

 

[clg003]

Posted this about a week ago in the WEZ, but thought I would re-post here in light of the Cristobal talk.



First of all, I think there are three components to recruiting that all get lumped under the "recruiting" umbrella:

1. Philosophy -- What type of player are you after? Do you prioritize measurables or intangibles? What's the sliding scale between the two, etc...?
2. Evaluation -- Can you identify talent based on crappy camcorder footage against crappy competition with crappy coaching?
3. Selling -- Can you convince your targets to come to your school?

When people say recruiting, I think they generally mean selling, but that isn't as important as the other two factors, especially evaluating (the most crucial part, IMO).

How much selling do people think the head coach actually does? Yes, the head coach establishes a brand, and yes the head coach uses his allowable contact to close the deal, but the legwork is done by the position coaches and the administrative staff.

The head coach's main responsibility in recruiting is determining a philosophy and evaluating talent properly. This is where Golden failed. He de-emphasized speed. He wanted big LBs and traditional 3-4 D-linemen. D'Onofrio was cut from the same cloth, and we saw that video footage of the staff recruiting powwow:


Now supposedly the player in question went to Bucknell or some ****. FOH. And Golden's camp offers were filled with guys that washed out quickly. Terrible philosophy and terrible evaluation.


Now this brings me to Wario Cristobal. He keeps getting mentioned as an ace recruiter. "Miami would clean up in South Florida if they hire him," blah blah blah.

Again, the head coach's main job is evaluating. So what proof is there that Cristobal knows how to evaluate talent? Supposedly he didn't even want T.Y. Hilton when he was at FIU. Someone practically twisted his arm. If true, that certainly doesn't inspire confidence.

He may be a great salesman (which is debatable), but that's irrelevant if he's selling the wrong guys. Let's not forget Al Golden was a master salesman. IIRC Tom Lemming rated him the best recruiter in the country. James Coley is considered a great salesman as well. It doesn't matter if you can't win because of poor evals and poor coaching/development.

Hire a coach who can evaluate talent and use it properly. Hire a coach who's smart enough to have good salesmen on his staff. Win games.


Winning is the best "recruiting" tool.

I am not a Mario fan simply because he couldnt win with Miami kids.

But to sit hit an deny he is a good recruiter is foolish. Its the only reason why he is at Alabama. The only reason Saban scooped him up. I think Saban may know a little something about the college game and recruiting.

And go read some interviews of Saban before you come back here and say its not. Saban puts recruiting first, always will and always has.

 

[DMoney]

What do you think, though, about the possibility of Mario being slapped with the "head coach in waiting" label if he's a part of Butch's proposed staff? Doesn't that become a dealbreaker for you?

The "head coach in waiting" thing is just fluff to me.

Number one, Butch doesn't sound like he wants to retire any time soon. Number two, the only way Mario would actually become the head coach is if the Butch regime was highly successful. So it's not something I'm concerned about.

I don't like the hciw tag, it can eventually get chaotic . Egos clash and , the hciw gets frustrated with the wait.

It's just asking for trouble , it can work it's way into the lockerroom and split the lockerroom . Too many negatives versus the positive.

Sorry, didn't mean to down vote.

 

[clg003]

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

Because he needed an OL coach? Bc his staff keeps getting plucked for other jobs?

Again, they recruit themselves bc they win. It's really quite simple.

Yet how did he pull in the number one class after a 7-6 season? Is that the definition of winning?

 

[CanesAreAble]

I am not a Mario fan simply because he couldnt win with Miami kids.

But to sit hit an deny he is a good recruiter is foolish. Its the only reason why he is at Alabama. The only reason Saban scooped him up. I think Saban may know a little something about the college game and recruiting.

And go read some interviews of Saban before you come back here and say its not. Saban puts recruiting first, always will and always has.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said he may be a good salesman, but that doesn't mean he can evaluate.

 

[weownfsu]

You know how I feel about this Able. We're on the same page. A "recruiter" is usually a euphemism for a ****** coach. Success recruiting as a head coach is a function of a lot of things. A guy's ability to get kids interested in a school as an assistant coach is MUCH less valuable when that guy is the head coach.

UM doesn't need a "recruiter." UM needs a real coach.

 

[CanesAreAble]

Yet how did he pull in the number one class after a 7-6 season? Is that the definition of winning?

Same way Golden and Shannon pulled in top 5 classes after disastrous first seasons.

A lot of coaches get that year 2 bump because there's excitement around the program, and they can sell hope. If Saban had gone 7-6 in year 2 instead of 12-2 (and then went 14-0 in year 3), maybe the recruiting dries up.

Being a good salesman will only take you so far. You have to evaluate, develop, and win.

 

[weownfsu]

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

Because he needed an OL coach? Bc his staff keeps getting plucked for other jobs?

Again, they recruit themselves bc they win. It's really quite simple.

Yet how did he pull in the number one class after a 7-6 season? Is that the definition of winning?

Because Nick Saban was an established coach who could sell a dream to kids. It happens at almost every major school. New head coaches get great classes. Al Golden had an excellent 2012 class and pulled kids like Tracy Howard, Tyriq McCord, Deon Bush, etc. He had to win major battles to get those guys. Then kids saw the product on the field and knew for sure it sucked and suddenly the "recruiter" can't recruit anymore. Same thing happened with Randy Shannon. We cleaned up in 2008 and got national recruits like Arthur Brown. Then kids realize the product sucks, and they don't wanna play for him anymore.

 

[CanesAreAble]

A guy's ability to get kids interested in a school as an assistant coach is MUCH less valuable when that guy is the head coach.

This.

 

[CanesAreAble]

The knowledge of DoNo is shown in this video...He states the best safety the "U" ever had ran a 4.68 forty....RIP Sean Taylor...

I think he was talking about at Temple, which is even more telling.

Miami ain't Temple.

He also said the best safeties played safety in high school, which isn't always true. Plenty of safeties were high school QBs or just all-around stud athletes.

 

[252cane]

Lmfao I mean it's laughable. As I said easiest job in world is being a recruiter for Bama.

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

Because he needed an OL coach? Bc his staff keeps getting plucked for other jobs?

Again, they recruit themselves bc they win. It's really quite simple.

Yet how did he pull in the number one class after a 7-6 season? Is that the definition of winning?

Because Nick Saban was an established coach who could sell a dream to kids. It happens at almost every major school. New head coaches get great classes. Al Golden had an excellent 2012 class and pulled kids like Tracy Howard, Tyriq McCord, Deon Bush, etc. He had to win major battles to get those guys. Then kids saw the product on the field and knew for sure it sucked and suddenly the "recruiter" can't recruit anymore. Same thing happened with Randy Shannon. We cleaned up in 2008 and got national recruits like Arthur Brown. Then kids realize the product sucks, and they don't wanna play for him anymore.

That 2012 class was horrible. 30+ recruits and maybe 10 turned out to be good players. Absolutely ****** horrible.

 

[weownfsu]

So why did Saban pay big money to hire him? You never answered this question.

Because he needed an OL coach? Bc his staff keeps getting plucked for other jobs?

Again, they recruit themselves bc they win. It's really quite simple.

Yet how did he pull in the number one class after a 7-6 season? Is that the definition of winning?

Because Nick Saban was an established coach who could sell a dream to kids. It happens at almost every major school. New head coaches get great classes. Al Golden had an excellent 2012 class and pulled kids like Tracy Howard, Tyriq McCord, Deon Bush, etc. He had to win major battles to get those guys. Then kids saw the product on the field and knew for sure it sucked and suddenly the "recruiter" can't recruit anymore. Same thing happened with Randy Shannon. We cleaned up in 2008 and got national recruits like Arthur Brown. Then kids realize the product sucks, and they don't wanna play for him anymore.

That 2012 class was horrible. 30+ recruits and maybe 10 turned out to be good players. Absolutely ****in horrible.

You're missing the point. Golden had a highly rated class that year and won tough battles for a lot of elite players. Whether they panned out or not is a completely different story.

 

[clg003]

I'm not hating on him, he's just not qualified for the UM job. Not even close.

No doubt. He should not be our head coach.

But if Butch wanted to bring him in as an OL coach (which is what we've been talking about), it makes plenty of sense. No idea why people are arguing so passionately against it.

Come on money... People argue passionately on this board because its easier then actually dealing with the truth or putting your brain in gear.

Mario on this next staff would be a major haul. Especially if your going to lose Coley. Their is no rational argument against that. He is not worthy of a HC but if you can break off major SFL players from other top programs while rebuilding your staff your helping to put up the fence.

Saban is the one coach who will tell you he puts recruiting first. He has then number one class year in and year out because of moves like mario. When you stand still in recruiting you fall behind. Locking up all those SFL ties was likely one a Sabans favorite hires as a coach