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Hiring a head coach who's a "recruiter"

Kyle Liburd said:
Good post. I agree with you 100% but to play devils advocate & the sake of discussion, what do you think about Clemson hiring a recruiter in Dabo? And how are the situations different between him and Cristobal?
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Dabo has been there 7 or 8 years and things finally broke right for him. He has good coordinators, a stud QB, and a favorable schedule. I still wouldn't be surprised if he screwed up and choked to USCe.

IMO guys like Dabo can't sustain top-tier success.
 
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DMoney said:
Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.
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Urban is obviously a stud recruiter, but I'd argue winning a title in year 2 (with a 5-star QB already in place) was the biggest sales pitch he had.

Coker pulled a lot of out-of-state frontrunners, too. Problem was his evaluations were terrible.
 
Let me explode the Cristobal recruiting myth.

If he was such a genius recruiter, how did he go 3-9 at FIU in a horrible conference in his 5th year? FIU has a more fertile recruiting ground than any of its competitors in the Sun Belt. If Mario was such a genius recruiter, how did his team tank so badly after he had the benefit of recruiting 5 whole classes?

Is he a slick salesman? Probably. But all he's doing is selling Ferraris to rich guys at Bama. He's not evaluating. When he was in charge of evaluating, he went 3-9 in his 5th season recruiting in the middle of Miami. He's just pitching guys that Saban tells him to pitch. And the product he's pitching is very sought after.
 
DMoney said:
Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.
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Herman is interesting candidate, but can we afford to trust what he has done at UH this year? Is it worth signing him to a multi-million dollar contract?
Or would we be better off looking into the likes of Butch or Chud?
Herman would likely take awhile to get his offense set up, where the other to pro-style ( so to say) could get results with what we have. Or do you think it doesn't matter
 
CanesAreAble said:
Urban is obviously a stud recruiter, but I'd argue winning a title in year 2 (with a 5-star QB already in place) was the biggest sales pitch he had.
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Urban set up that first championship with a monster 2006 class that finished #2 on Rivals. That was coming off a relatively disappointing 9-3 season and a dismal offensive showing.

Tebow, Harvin, Spikes, Cunningham, and Cooper all signed that year. That UF team played more freshmen than any team in the country.
 
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stormbrewing said:
DMoney said:
Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.
Click to expand...
Herman is interesting candidate, but can we afford to trust what he has done at UH this year? Is it worth signing him to a multi-million dollar contract?
Or would we be better off looking into the likes of Butch or Chud?
Herman would likely take awhile to get his offense set up, where the other to pro-style ( so to say) could get results with what we have. Or do you think it doesn't matter
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What has Chud done as a HC that makes him a safer bet than Herman?
 
DMoney said:
CanesAreAble said:
Urban is obviously a stud recruiter, but I'd argue winning a title in year 2 (with a 5-star QB already in place) was the biggest sales pitch he had.
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Urban set up that first championship with a monster 2006 class that finished #2 on Rivals. That was coming off a relatively disappointing 9-3 season and a dismal offense.

Tebow, Harvin, Spikes, Cunningham, Cooper. That UF team played more freshmen than any team in the country.
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I think Urban is great but Zook left that roster loaded, he was a corch but elite recruiter
 
The Franchise said:
Let me explode the Cristobal recruiting myth.

If he was such a genius recruiter, how did he go 3-9 at FIU in a horrible conference in his 5th year? FIU has a more fertile recruiting ground than any of its competitors in the Sun Belt. If Mario was such a genius recruiter, how did his team tank so badly after he had the benefit of recruiting 5 whole classes?

Is he a slick salesman? Probably. But all he's doing is selling Ferraris to rich guys at Bama. He's not evaluating. When he was in charge of evaluating, he went 3-9 in his 5th season recruiting in the middle of Miami. He's just pitching guys that Saban tells him to pitch. And the product he's pitching is very sought after.
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I would agree that he hasn't shown anything as an evaluator. My problem is that people are downplaying his ability to sell. That's arguing just to argue. There is a reason Alabama pays him big bucks.

I would be happy to have him as a recruiting grinder with Butch calling the shots on evaluations and someone else calling plays.
 
DMoney said:
The Franchise said:
Let me explode the Cristobal recruiting myth.

If he was such a genius recruiter, how did he go 3-9 at FIU in a horrible conference in his 5th year? FIU has a more fertile recruiting ground than any of its competitors in the Sun Belt. If Mario was such a genius recruiter, how did his team tank so badly after he had the benefit of recruiting 5 whole classes?

Is he a slick salesman? Probably. But all he's doing is selling Ferraris to rich guys at Bama. He's not evaluating. When he was in charge of evaluating, he went 3-9 in his 5th season recruiting in the middle of Miami. He's just pitching guys that Saban tells him to pitch. And the product he's pitching is very sought after.
Click to expand...

I would agree that he hasn't shown anything as an evaluator. My problem is that people are downplaying his ability to sell. That's arguing just to argue. There is a reason Alabama pays him big bucks.

I would be happy to have him as a recruiting grinder with Butch calling the shots on evaluations and someone else calling plays.
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I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.
 
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The Franchise said:
stormbrewing said:
DMoney said:
Agreed that evaluation and direction are more important than selling.

But I wouldn't discount the value of selling, either. Urban Meyer attacked recruiting battles like they were games. His 2008 Gator team was loaded with out of state blue chippers.

One thing I like about Herman is that he seems to embrace that part of the job.
Click to expand...
Herman is interesting candidate, but can we afford to trust what he has done at UH this year? Is it worth signing him to a multi-million dollar contract?
Or would we be better off looking into the likes of Butch or Chud?
Herman would likely take awhile to get his offense set up, where the other to pro-style ( so to say) could get results with what we have. Or do you think it doesn't matter
Click to expand...

What has Chud done as a HC that makes him a safer bet than Herman?
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As a HC, not much different.
Except Chud has been calling plays at the highest level of his profession successful ( arguable I guess)
Way more experienced in Football in general.
 
DMoney said:
The Franchise said:
Let me explode the Cristobal recruiting myth.

If he was such a genius recruiter, how did he go 3-9 at FIU in a horrible conference in his 5th year? FIU has a more fertile recruiting ground than any of its competitors in the Sun Belt. If Mario was such a genius recruiter, how did his team tank so badly after he had the benefit of recruiting 5 whole classes?

Is he a slick salesman? Probably. But all he's doing is selling Ferraris to rich guys at Bama. He's not evaluating. When he was in charge of evaluating, he went 3-9 in his 5th season recruiting in the middle of Miami. He's just pitching guys that Saban tells him to pitch. And the product he's pitching is very sought after.
Click to expand...

I would agree that he hasn't shown anything as an evaluator. My problem is that people are downplaying his ability to sell. That's arguing just to argue. There is a reason Alabama pays him big bucks.

I would be happy to have him as a recruiting grinder with Butch calling the shots on evaluations and someone else calling plays.
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Problem is that you can't waste such an important teaching position (OL Coach) on a "recruiting grinder".

When you start doing that then you lose football games. And when you lose too many football games your recruiting prowess disappears. See Folden and Coley. Those guys were both incredible recruiters until our program tanked.

Let me ask you this, and I'll hope you'll answer honestly and not just claim everyone's bytching just to bytch. Rutgers made S. FL a priority when Mario coached there. Why did he only get the scraps in S. FL when he was selling Rutgers versus what he's getting when he's selling Bama?
 
What was Alabama's recruiting ranked before Mario?

I think they'd be number one with or without him

That program recruits itself.
 
McGahee2TheHouse said:
I don't think people are downplaying his ability to sell. I think people are placing more importance on filling a PC slot with someone who can actually coach the position, rather than just sell Miami.
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Nobody on here knows whether he can actually coach the position. Alabama's OL looked pretty good smashing LSU on Saturday. So a segment of Alabama fans don't like him. OK. The coaches at Alabama like him, Nick Saban likes him, and the Alabama AD pays him a ton.

The fact that people are so passionately against him as a position coach bugs me because it confirms what I've suspected: people are just ****-bent on whining about ****.
 
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Cribby said:
What was Alabama's recruiting ranked before Mario?

I think they'd be number one with or without him

That program recruits itself.
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Then why did Saban go out and sign Mario for a ton of money?
 
DMoney said:
CanesAreAble said:
Urban is obviously a stud recruiter, but I'd argue winning a title in year 2 (with a 5-star QB already in place) was the biggest sales pitch he had.
Click to expand...

Urban set up that first championship with a monster 2006 class that finished #2 on Rivals. That was coming off a relatively disappointing 9-3 season and a dismal offensive showing.

Tebow, Harvin, Spikes, Cunningham, and Cooper all signed that year. That UF team played more freshmen than any team in the country.
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I don't know if I'd categorize Urban's first year as disappointing, especially on the heels of the Zook era. Plus we've seen countless coaches get that year 2 recruiting bump.
 
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I surprised i never realized this but Cristobal is the associate Head Coach of Alabama.
 
The Franchise said:
Let me ask you this, and I'll hope you'll answer honestly and not just claim everyone's bytching just to bytch. Rutgers made S. FL a priority when Mario coached there. Why did he only get the scraps in S. FL when he was selling Rutgers versus what he's getting when he's selling Bama?
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Rugters got a ton of South Florida talent when he was there. Not coincidentally, Rutgers became a legitimate program during that time.

Was he getting a lower-caliber of player than he got at Alabama? No ****. But selling Miami isn't selling Rutgers.
 
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