Hire Mike Leach!

[Billy D Williams]

I'm not a Mike Leach fan, but I'd take a bullet for him over Al! We got several coaches we could get that we would all agree on rather it be Butch, Schiano, Kiffin, Chud, Mario or even Jeremy Pruitt . No need to even consider Leach unless all other options fail. Then **** yea over Golden.

 

[QueenOfSpades]

Here's the thing you're not quite understanding though....

IT'S TEXAS TECH.

We're not talking about Texas, or Texas A&M, or even Houston or SMU(all of which have had more success historically as a program). I'm not sure what Spike Dykes has to do with Leach, other than he was an arguably slightly better coach at the same ****ty football program.

Leach IS a good coach. He's not elite or great because he places zero emphasis on defense. Because of that, he'd probably fail at Miami.

And it is still TEXAS TECH after ten years of Mike Leach because he isn't good enough to make a difference. Frank Beamer took over at VIRGINIA TECH and made them a perennial contender. Art Briles is at BAYLOR and has a joke of a program competing for BCS spots.

The Spike Dykes reference that you missed is that Leach didn't make the program any better. They were still a 4-4 or 5-3 Big 12 team before, during, and after Mike Leach.

60 points allowed to an unranked team in year three. And people are defending him. SMH.

 

[BWCD]

Limited talent? They have limited talent because Mike Leach can't recruit and ignores the defensive side of the ball. Boise State became a national player. Same with Virginia Tech. Louisville. Baylor. TCU. All of those programs came from absolutely nothing. They convinced talent to come to their school. Yet you want to give Mike Leach a pass after he has had one significant season in 13 years, and you blame it on limited talent.

Yes, limited talent. Texas Tech doesn't pull the type of players that the elite schools do, no matter who the coach is. And they certainly don't pull what Leach could pull out of S Florida. Think about how big 7 on 7 has become in Florida as a whole. In the south, for that matter. Think about the talent he could get by telling multiple kids that they'll catch 100+ balls a year.

I'm not giving Leach a pass either. I've said plenty of times I'd take him IF we brought in a good DC to pair with him. I'm not blind to his weaknesses. I'm just saying at Miami, his system would have better pieces to work with than at any other head coaching stop he's been to.

If he was such a great coach, he wouldn't get beat by teams with better talent. That's kind of the whole point. If that's the expectation, then I am a great coach, because any one of us could win the games when we have more talent. What makes Mike Leach so special if he needs to have more talent than everyone else in order to win?

Nice strawman. What a dumb response.

What you fail to realize with Mike Leach and his offense is that once the passing game gets beat, he has nothing left to fall back on and gets beat by 40.

No--what you fail to realize is that he never had any talent at the RB spot, and that his OL were mainly pieced together out of guys who were good pass blockers only. Imagine what he could do with an OL that can both pass and run block, and one of the speed RB's that roam freely at each and every HS in S Florida. Leach WILL run the ball if he has the personnel to do so. Most of the time, he doesn't, so in turn--he throws it more in the Air Raid than even he wants to. I've seen several interviews and columns in the past where he talks about wanting balance, but not having the personnel to effectively do it. He even talked about it a lot when he did radio on Sirius.

If Shannon Woods could average 5.1 yards a carry and score 12 rushing TDs in Leach's offense in 2008, then think about what a Duke Johnson could have done out of that same offense.

 

[BWCD]

And it is still TEXAS TECH after ten years of Mike Leach because he isn't good enough to make a difference. Frank Beamer took over at VIRGINIA TECH and made them a perennial contender. Art Briles is at BAYLOR and has a joke of a program competing for BCS spots.

The Spike Dykes reference that you missed is that Leach didn't make the program any better. They were still a 4-4 or 5-3 Big 12 team before, during, and after Mike Leach.

One of the few years he was better and had a good team in 2008 was when he had a solid DC in Ruffin McNeill. Again--that's the key to Leach having success anywhere...having a good DC who can handle the quick turnarounds that the Air Raid causes. It's not perfect, and it's a risk reward, but with better talent than you can get at Wassu or TT...

60 points allowed to an unranked team in year three. And people are defending him. SMH.

Again--if he were doing that with Bama's or LSU's roster, you'd have a point. But he's not, so you don't.

 

[QueenOfSpades]

LMAO.

Every other coach in America recruits the players he wants and needs. Mike Leach is the only guy who just uses whoever shows up. Do you realize how dumb that sounds? If you want to run the ball and you don't have talent at the RB spot......you emphasize RBs in the next class. I guess Bill Snyder just got lucky when he took an 0-11 team and made them a BCS contender. Poor Mike Leach took a 7-5 bowl team and wasn't allowed to recruit, so he left them as a 7-5 bowl team. Poor guy.

I'm guessing that he also has the same limitations at Washington State. Dude just can't run it the way he wants.

 

[QueenOfSpades]

Again--if he were doing that with Bama's or LSU's roster, you'd have a point. But he's not, so you don't.

Right, because you have to have an Alabama or LSU roster to keep California under 60, even though all 11 other teams, including FCS Sacramento State, did just that.

Great point.

 

[duke4heisman]

BUTCH DAVIS

 

[BWCD]

LMAO.

Every other coach in America recruits the players he wants and needs. Mike Leach is the only guy who just uses whoever shows up. Do you realize how dumb that sounds? If you want to run the ball and you don't have talent at the RB spot......you emphasize RBs in the next class. I guess Bill Snyder just got lucky when he took an 0-11 team and made them a BCS contender. Poor Mike Leach took a 7-5 bowl team and wasn't allowed to recruit, so he left them as a 7-5 bowl team. Poor guy.

I'm guessing that he also has the same limitations at Washington State. Dude just can't run it the way he wants.

The stigma around Leach's background and offensive system is that "he doesn't like to run it" or "he can't run it". That affects recruiting, period. Again--if he had a Duke Johnson and an OL (which he would have had in Miami most likely), he would have run it and done so effectively. You won't be able to change my mind on that at all.

 

[QueenOfSpades]

The stigma around Leach's background and offensive system is that "he doesn't like to run it" or "he can't run it". That affects recruiting, period. Again--if he had a Duke Johnson and an OL (which he would have had in Miami most likely), he would have run it and done so effectively. You won't be able to change my mind on that at all.

Great, but you already said that he can't get RB's.

 

[BWCD]

Again--if he were doing that with Bama's or LSU's roster, you'd have a point. But he's not, so you don't.

Right, because you have to have an Alabama or LSU roster to keep California under 60, even though all 11 other teams, including FCS Sacramento State, did just that.

Great point.

You don't have to have Bama or LSU to do that, but if you're playing with marginal D1 talent on your roster at a program like Wassu...then it shouldn't be a surprise when your crappy talent plays crappy.

Butch Davis took decent and elite players and made them all much better. Great coaches can do that. If you give him Wassu's roster from last season, he couldn't have done much better than Leach did with it, no matter how great of a coach he is.

If you're a bad team with bad talent, hiring an elite coach doesn't make you elite team with elite players overnight. It just makes you an untalented team with better coaching.

 

[The Franchise]

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Did you need to?

LOL

You mean the guy who learned to coach that offense from ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach???

LOL

Did i say for head coach?

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

 

[BWCD]

The stigma around Leach's background and offensive system is that "he doesn't like to run it" or "he can't run it". That affects recruiting, period. Again--if he had a Duke Johnson and an OL (which he would have had in Miami most likely), he would have run it and done so effectively. You won't be able to change my mind on that at all.

Great, but you already said that he can't get RB's.

Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means, but Duke Johnson has been quoted several times as saying that he was coming to Miami no matter who the coach was. Leach would have had him. There are other good RB's too that will come to Miami pretty much no matter what. If Leach got a hold of them, they'd be able to show out. They wouldn't get a crazy amount of carries, but they'd be able to show they can play. And the Air Raid would be better for it.

Honestly--has the Air Raid ever had an explosive RB? And not due to the system, but simply talent-wise? Has there ever been an elite back run out of the Air Raid? I don't think so. Does that preclude an excellent RB from thriving in the Air Raid? I don't think we can conclusively say that.

 

[The Franchise]

The stigma around Leach's background and offensive system is that "he doesn't like to run it" or "he can't run it". That affects recruiting, period. Again--if he had a Duke Johnson and an OL (which he would have had in Miami most likely), he would have run it and done so effectively. You won't be able to change my mind on that at all.

Great, but you already said that he can't get RB's.

Correct me if I'm wrong, by all means, but Duke Johnson has been quoted several times as saying that he was coming to Miami no matter who the coach was. Leach would have had him. There are other good RB's too that will come to Miami pretty much no matter what. If Leach got a hold of them, they'd be able to show out. They wouldn't get a crazy amount of carries, but they'd be able to show they can play. And the Air Raid would be better for it.

Honestly--has the Air Raid ever had an explosive RB? And not due to the system, but simply talent-wise? Has there ever been an elite back run out of the Air Raid? I don't think so. Does that preclude an excellent RB from thriving in the Air Raid? I don't think we can conclusively say that.

Why would Leach get great RBs at UM when he's expressed over and over his open disdain for running the football? And what makes you think he'd change his philosophy on running the football after 13 years of hating it as a HC?

You don't think in all those years as a HC that he could have found a RB in Texas or at Wazzou? Both of those programs have produced some top RBs over the years when he wasn't the HC.

Heck, C A G has trouble getting great RBs to sign here and we're a traditional pro style run first team with him.

 

[CaniacMike21]

Here's the thing you're not quite understanding though....

IT'S TEXAS TECH.

We're not talking about Texas, or Texas A&M, or even Houston or SMU(all of which have had more success historically as a program). I'm not sure what Spike Dykes has to do with Leach, other than he was an arguably slightly better coach at the same ****ty football program.

Leach IS a good coach. He's not elite or great because he places zero emphasis on defense. Because of that, he'd probably fail at Miami.

And it is still TEXAS TECH after ten years of Mike Leach because he isn't good enough to make a difference. Frank Beamer took over at VIRGINIA TECH and made them a perennial contender. Art Briles is at BAYLOR and has a joke of a program competing for BCS spots.

The Spike Dykes reference that you missed is that Leach didn't make the program any better. They were still a 4-4 or 5-3 Big 12 team before, during, and after Mike Leach.

60 points allowed to an unranked team in year three. And people are defending him. SMH.

You just brought up two coaches that everyone considers very good to elite. I don't think there's a single person in this thread that would ever try to convince anyone that Leach belongs in the same sentence as Beamer and Briles.

The question is whether he can be successful at Miami. I have my hesitations.

 

[MIATL513]

Actually, dear friend ... You're wrong.

Riley comes directly from the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach style of coaching the air-raid. Notice the time-line of his coaching career ... His ONLY experience in college football was with Mike Leach. After Leach was fired, he joined Ruffin McNeal at ECU ...

His ECU stats also support that he is a pass-heavy OC.

Riley, a rising star in the profession who will have other suitors, has expressed interest in the UK job, the source said, but wanted to get through the Pirates' regular-season finale Thursday night against Central Florida. His offense scored 21 straight points in the fourth quarter to erase a 26-9 deficit against the Knights, who ranked No. 4 nationally in total defense, only to lose on a Hail Mary.

Hiring him would provide continuity for the Cats' offense as Riley is another disciple of the "Air Raid" that Neal Brown – introduced this week as Troy's head coach – installed the last two seasons in Lexington. Riley is a Texas Tech alum who spent seven total seasons with the Red Raiders' program as a walk-on quarterback, student assistant, graduate assistant and finally full-time assistant.


He was Mike Leach's wide receivers coach from 2007-09. Riley's five seasons as ECU's offensive coordinator – he is also the assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach – hold the top five spots in the school's record book for passing yardage.

I also have to chuckle at you, of all posters, remarking on someone being condescending.

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Did you need to?

Did i say for head coach?

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

 

[MIATL513]

Yeah.

Stoops didn't even consider the Mike Leach connection when he considered Riley for the job ...

Stoops mentioned Mike Leach and Hal Mumme on a couple of occasions. Leach, of course, was a Mumme disciple of the Air Raid offense and the first offensive coordinator that Stoops hired after he was hired way back in 1998. Leach brought the system to Norman, and even though he left after only a year and handed off to Mark Mangino, Leach set in motion the change that would win a national title and propel the program to years of success.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-football...ing-back-the-air-raid-offense/article/5385718

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Did you need to?

Did i say for head coach?

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

 

[The Franchise]

Actually, dear friend ... You're wrong.

Riley comes directly from the Hal Mumme/Mike Leach style of coaching the air-raid. Notice the time-line of his coaching career ... His ONLY experience in college football was with Mike Leach. After Leach was fired, he joined Ruffin McNeal at ECU ...

His ECU stats also support that he is a pass-heavy OC.

Riley, a rising star in the profession who will have other suitors, has expressed interest in the UK job, the source said, but wanted to get through the Pirates' regular-season finale Thursday night against Central Florida. His offense scored 21 straight points in the fourth quarter to erase a 26-9 deficit against the Knights, who ranked No. 4 nationally in total defense, only to lose on a Hail Mary.

Hiring him would provide continuity for the Cats' offense as Riley is another disciple of the "Air Raid" that Neal Brown – introduced this week as Troy's head coach – installed the last two seasons in Lexington. Riley is a Texas Tech alum who spent seven total seasons with the Red Raiders' program as a walk-on quarterback, student assistant, graduate assistant and finally full-time assistant.


He was Mike Leach's wide receivers coach from 2007-09. Riley's five seasons as ECU's offensive coordinator – he is also the assistant head coach and quarterbacks coach – hold the top five spots in the school's record book for passing yardage.

I also have to chuckle at you, of all posters, remarking on someone being condescending.

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Did you need to?

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

Dearest friend, you can point to all the articles in the world and tell me who came up in what system. I don't care about articles. I watch the games.

I'm familiar with ECU's offense, as I watched them. They're NOTHING like Wazzou. They run the football regularly. They ran for 2,100 yards last year at 5 yards per carry. Wazzou ran for A TOTAL OF 478 yards on the season at 2 yards per carry. That is an insanely huge difference in approach despite them working together in the past.

Holgerson also came up in that same Mumme system. However, he's completely different from Leach in that he focuses on running the football. WVU ran it MORE than they threw it last year despite Holgerson being a Leach/Mumme disciple.

Do you see, dear friend, how a coach can change no matter who he learned under? Do you see that you're not automatically locked into an all-out Air Raid, no run offense just because you worked under Leach?

 

[The Franchise]

Yeah.

Stoops didn't even consider the Mike Leach connection when he considered Riley for the job ...

Stoops mentioned Mike Leach and Hal Mumme on a couple of occasions. Leach, of course, was a Mumme disciple of the Air Raid offense and the first offensive coordinator that Stoops hired after he was hired way back in 1998. Leach brought the system to Norman, and even though he left after only a year and handed off to Mark Mangino, Leach set in motion the change that would win a national title and propel the program to years of success.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-football...ing-back-the-air-raid-offense/article/5385718

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Did you need to?

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

Go ahead and point to more articles, smart friend. You're very well read.

Unfortunately for you, I actually watched the games. OU's offense didn't really take off until Leach left and Mangino took over. With Mangino in place, OU's offense exploded because Mangino ran the football and balanced it out a little. They won the NC with Mangino running the offense; they went 7-5 or something like that with Leach running the offense.

Next.

 

[kccanefan]

I'm not a Mike Leach fan, but I'd take a bullet for him over Al! We got several coaches we could get that we would all agree on rather it be Butch, Schiano, Kiffin, Chud, Mario or even Jeremy Pruitt . No need to even consider Leach unless all other options fail. Then **** yea over Golden.

Of those listed along with Leach. I would rank in order. Not sure the love for Chud. No college HC experience and was known not to enjoy recruiting when he was OC at Miami. Schiano stunk at Rutgers and Mario stunk at FIU. Kiffin got worse at USC and Oakland.

1) Butch
2) Leach
3) Chud
4) Pruitt
5) Schiano
6) Mario
7) Kiffin
8) Golden

 

[MIATL513]

My opinion ... Leach would have been an interesting hire to follow Coker. We chose to go another way ... That way hasn't worked. The ship has sailed on that opportunity, and his subsequent coaching job hasn't been good enough for me to think we should re-visit him.

But FWIW ... I watch games, too. And giving credit to Mangino for that 2000 Oklahoma offense is like giving credit to Coker for the 2001 Hurricanes. And you know it, too ... dear friend.

As for Riley ... He played and coached for Leach, learned the college game from him. But he'll have talent at the RB position for OU, and a team built for a more balanced offensive game-plan. We'll see how they do ...

I don't really care enough about Leach to continue.

Yeah.

Stoops didn't even consider the Mike Leach connection when he considered Riley for the job ...

Stoops mentioned Mike Leach and Hal Mumme on a couple of occasions. Leach, of course, was a Mumme disciple of the Air Raid offense and the first offensive coordinator that Stoops hired after he was hired way back in 1998. Leach brought the system to Norman, and even though he left after only a year and handed off to Mark Mangino, Leach set in motion the change that would win a national title and propel the program to years of success.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-football...ing-back-the-air-raid-offense/article/5385718

Read the thread title ...



It's about ... Wait for it ... Mike Leach.

I find it interesting that you want the OC who came from Leach's tutelage ... When we are debating whether or not Mike Leach would be a good HC, and specifically, whether his O would win titles.

FWIW ... Bad HC's don't usually produce good assistants ...

Im guessing since you are bringing up leach

Dear friend, while you're busy being super condescending realize that just because an OC worked under or with Leach doesn't...wait for it...mean he's running the same offense.

Holgerson came up in that same system, and his offense is completely different than Leach's. Leach detests the run. Holgerson is a run first guy. If you think ECU was running a flat out Leach Air Raid under Lincoln Reilly...wait for it...you wrong, dear friend.

Leach's biggest problem is his refusal to adapt his system and incorporate more run game. That's why he always fails and why most of the other guys associated with the original Mumme Air Raid offense have adapted their approach to spread teams out with a bunch of WRs and gash the bejesus out of them with the run game.

Go ahead and point to more articles, smart friend. You're very well read.

Unfortunately for you, I actually watched the games. OU's offense didn't really take off until Leach left and Mangino took over. With Mangino in place, OU's offense exploded because Mangino ran the football and balanced it out a little. They won the NC with Mangino running the offense; they went 7-5 or something like that with Leach running the offense.

Next.