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Harrison-Hunte Update

BoxingRobes said:
That doesn't sound like McIntosh. He was never that, even in your fantasy booking.
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McIntosh definitely had 3rd round potential. Health concerns killed that.

Their own logic is faulty with the All-American logic. There are 66 spots between 1st, 2nd and 3rd team All-American? Plus specialists. There are way more 4-stars than that.
 
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BoxingRobes said:
Yeah, you're just moving the goalpost.
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This is very simple. Rivals defines a Four Star player as "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall."

The NFL determined that McIntosh was one of the Top 150 players in his draft class. Rivals underrated him.

By saying they are a four-star prospect...regardless of the service, you are saying they are an All-American player.
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This does not make sense. There are 300 4* prospects every year on Rivals. How many kids make an All-American team in a given year?

Just admit McIntosh should have been a four-star and move on.
 
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DMoney said:
This is very simple. Rivals defines a Four Star player as "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall."

The NFL determined that McIntosh was one of the Top 150 players in his draft class. Rivals underrated him.
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Except, they didn't. Rivals, being the ONLY service that uses pro potential in their criteria, states that a 3* prospect has mid-to-low pro potential. Their own words. A 3*, per rivals, has some pro potential. RJ McIntosh was a 5th Round pick.


This does not make sense. There are 300 4* prospects every year on Rivals. How many kids make an All-American team in a given year?

Just admit McIntosh should have been a four-star and move on.
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There is no need to admit that your fan fiction is some sort of gospel. Under every major service, he was ranked right in line with his potential and his output. Surely, you understand why there are so many players rated. You keep pointing to "well, there are 300 players ranked with potential for 66 spots...that makes no sense while pointing to McIntosh's draft spot"...its called potential. These sites put out a list of 300 players they think are potentially or could be (varying word use) All-American or in some services All-Conference type players. Cool. RJ McIntosh was neither an All-American and at best made second team All-Conference in the ACC. Under no qualification is that output that of a 4* player. You're just being dense at this point.

But, I'll play.

Name your wager. Save the post. Jared Harrison-Hunte becomes a first or second team All-American...you say yes (you say he is a 4* player, so clearly you do). I say no. Name your price. See you in a few years...I'll PM you my Venmo now, so you have it saved for later.
 
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BoxingRobes said:
RJ McIntosh was neither an All-American and at best made second team All-Conference in the ACC. Under no qualification is that output that of a 4* player.
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Let me repeat this again and make it very simple.

A four star player is a Top 300 player in his class. That is how every service defines it.

As we sit here today, do you think RJ McIntosh was one of the Top 300 players in the 2015 class?

If the answer is yes, Rivals and 247 got it wrong. If the answer is no, you disagree with the NFL and most everyone else.

You're a good poster, but you are spinning in circles here. Nobody in their right minds thinks RJ McIntosh performed like a mid 3-star player.
 
DMoney said:
Let me repeat this again and make it very simple.

A four star player is a Top 300 player in his class. That is how every service defines it.

As we sit here today, do you think RJ McIntosh was one of the Top 300 players in the 2015 class?

If the answer is yes, Rivals and 247 got it wrong. If the answer is no, you disagree with the NFL and most everyone else.

You're a good poster, but you are spinning in circles here. Nobody in their right minds thinks RJ McIntosh performed like a mid 3-star player.
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You're issue is you're focused on the number and none of the qualifiers.

It is a Top 300 player in his class that is an All-American candidate (Rivals, ESPN, 247) , has 1st to 3rd Round Potential (Rivals), contribute as a freshman (ESPN). RJ McIntosh basically checks off one box.

Like I said, put your money where your mouth is...name your terms. Does JHH become an All-American? Yes, or no. If you say Yes, name your terms. If no, then you don't think he's really a 4* candidate and thats fine.
 
DMoney said:
Let me repeat this again and make it very simple.

A four star player is a Top 300 player in his class. That is how every service defines it.

As we sit here today, do you think RJ McIntosh was one of the Top 300 players in the 2015 class?

If the answer is yes, Rivals and 247 got it wrong. If the answer is no, you disagree with the NFL and most everyone else.

You're a good poster, but you are spinning in circles here. Nobody in their right minds thinks RJ McIntosh performed like a mid 3-star player.
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exactly.... If Mcintosh was a 5th star and an average NFL player, IDGAF... no one does here honestly. We are projecting kids from high school to how they will perform PRIMARILY in college. So for example a guy like Manziel... a 3 star player coming into college per 247 composite. That rating was dead wrong. Manziel was a BEAST in college and tore it up at A&M, and made Saban’s D full of NFL players look like amateurs. He struggled at the NFL level and had off field issues but as a college player guy was a 5- star QB whom the services were dead wrong. He was a top 5 player in the narion when he played. So Hunte I think has the chance to be very good, he had legit interest from OSU, Bama ( who tried to get him on campus again) , and from Miami and Penn State. If developed properly I would not be surprised if by junior or senior year he is an AA.
 
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DMoney said:
Do you think 300 players in this class become All-Americans?

If not, take a step back and think about your position.
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You are just ignoring contextualization (and at this point, flat out ignoring the qualifications these sites publish to fit your narrative) when it comes to rankings and have throughout the discussion. I'm just not taking the conversation down the path of your false premise.

RJ McIntosh was a three star prospect...performed at the level of a three-star prospect in college. Jared Harrison-Hunte is a three star prospect...and I suspect will perform at the level of a three-star prospect in college.
 
gogeta4 said:
@BoxingRobes is a god poster, one of the best onheere. But i think he dug his foot in on this one...I also think he is wrong on JHH as well as Mcintosh.

Considering Mcintosh draft grade and spot was due to health issues. He was a top 3 rounder fairl easily without those issues as a...JUNIOR
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Agree that @BoxingRobes is one of the best around.

Glad to see McIntosh show flashes late in the year. Even without the sickness, he needed some physical maturity. I can see him peaking later in his career. Our defensive linemen have been outproducing their draft spots since Calais Campbell.
 
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DMoney said:
This is very simple. Rivals defines a Four Star player as "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall."

The NFL determined that McIntosh was one of the Top 150 players in his draft class. Rivals underrated him.



This does not make sense. There are 300 4* prospects every year on Rivals. How many kids make an All-American team in a given year?

Just admit McIntosh should have been a four-star and move on.
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That's not how this works, though.

If anything, he was rated appropriately since he had the "a potential All-Conference candidate and a player deemed to have mid to low-end pro potential and ability to impact at the college level." He met that potential, but did not exceed it (going by the standards for a 4 stars potential)

You don't get to retroactively assign him a 4 star rating using an entirely different criteria. Being "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall" does not translate to "picked within the same numbered grouping of the NFL draft". That’s not how these rankings are created. You’re trying to turn an orange into an apple.
 
righty said:
You don't get to retroactively assign him a 4 star rating using an entirely different criteria. Being "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall" does not translate to "picked within the same numbered grouping of the NFL draft". That’s not how these rankings are created. You’re trying to turn an orange into an apple.
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It's their own criteria.

It's right at the beginning: a four star should be a Top 300 player. That makes sense considering they give out 300+ four stars. Nobody disputes that McIntosh was a Top 300 player in his class because they can't.

Just for perspective, Jamie Gordinier was ranked ahead of RJ McIntosh as a SDE. That's how bad they blew it.
 
DMoney said:
A fourth star means you're a Top 300 player. McIntosh got picked 139th despite a bad kidney condition. He was projected as a Top 75 pick before that.

He pretty clearly proved to be a four-star caliber player.
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I agree McIntosh’s career played out like a 4* kid.

Doesn’t mean he was underrated, because development matters and uncertainty is factored into ratings. But at the end of the day, McIntosh had a solid career. If Hunte does as well, I’ll consider it a success, and I’ll root for him to surpass McIntosh.
DMoney said:
This is very simple. Rivals defines a Four Star player as "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall."

The NFL determined that McIntosh was one of the Top 150 players in his draft class. Rivals underrated him.



This does not make sense. There are 300 4* prospects every year on Rivals. How many kids make an All-American team in a given year?

Just admit McIntosh should have been a four-star and move on.
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Just re your comment above, for those who are interested in the ratings topic and not to debate McIntosh himself, IMO it is not necessarily true that a kid was underrated because of what happened four years later, or development would not be a real thing. Ratings take place at a moment in time, under uncertainty. Some kids develop, work hard, reach their potential. Others struggle, get hurt, get kicked out of school, get arrested. A 5* kid with a high ceiling isn’t necessarily overrated because he doesn’t end up in the draft down the road. You’d have to know what happened. Likewise, a 3* kid who achieves his potential wasn’t necessarily underrated earlier on. The rating reflects probabilities, not certanties. Willie Williams wasn’t overrated, IMO. Reggie Youngblood and Tyler McMeans, however, were definitely overrated. All were 5* kids.
 
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DMoney said:
It's their own criteria.

It's right at the beginning: a four star should be a Top 300 player. That makes sense considering they give out 300+ four stars. Nobody disputes that McIntosh was a Top 300 player in his class because they can't.

Just for perspective, Jamie Gordinier was ranked ahead of RJ McIntosh as a SDE. That's how bad they blew it.
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In fairness to gordinier, didnt he get hurt?

/otherwise agree with top 300 or whatever they say
 
zanecane said:
This argument started at 8:59am. **** near 7pm and you guys are still going strong. Send My condolences to your families.
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duty_calls.png


Go Canes
 
righty said:
That's not how this works, though.

If anything, he was rated appropriately since he had the "a potential All-Conference candidate and a player deemed to have mid to low-end pro potential and ability to impact at the college level." He met that potential, but did not exceed it (going by the standards for a 4 stars potential)

You don't get to retroactively assign him a 4 star rating using an entirely different criteria. Being "generally among the nation’s top 300-325 prospects overall" does not translate to "picked within the same numbered grouping of the NFL draft". That’s not how these rankings are created. You’re trying to turn an orange into an apple.
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The truth is their own descriptions are flawed and inconsistent, not that you or D$ is wrong in what you’re picking out.

If there are 250-300 4* kids each cycle, then D$ is right that how a kid gets drafted is comparable to the going in pool. It isn’t as simple as saying top 150 kids in nfl draft means should have been top 150 coming out of Hs, because you have to account for kids who get removed from the pool for non-football reasons - injuries, conduct, played another sport, etc. If 20% of kids get removed from the pool for non-football reasons, then maybe it’s more like top 200 out of Hs translates to top 160 in nfl draft. But directionally, D$ is right in his analysis.

That said, the rating services are wrong to describe 3* kids as potential all conference level, at least unless you put too much weight on the word ‘potential.’ If there are 300 4* kids give or take each year, that’s 1200 over 4 years. Many all conference kids are all conference multiple seasons, moreover. So there arent 1200 all conference players over 4 years around the major conferences. 4* is more of an all conference level potential. 3* is more starter level potential, generalizing of course.
 
Ethnicsands said:
I agree McIntosh’s career played out like a 4* kid.

Doesn’t mean he was underrated, because development matters and uncertainty is factored into ratings. But at the end of the day, McIntosh had a solid career. If Hunte does as well, I’ll consider it a success, and I’ll root for him to surpass McIntosh.

Just re your comment above, for those who are interested in the ratings topic and not to debate McIntosh himself, IMO it is not necessarily true that a kid was underrated because of what happened four years later, or development would not be a real thing. Ratings take place at a moment in time, under uncertainty. Some kids develop, work hard, reach their potential. Others struggle, get hurt, get kicked out of school, get arrested. A 5* kid with a high ceiling isn’t necessarily overrated because he doesn’t end up in the draft down the road. You’d have to know what happened. Likewise, a 3* kid who achieves his potential wasn’t necessarily underrated earlier on. The rating reflects probabilities, not certanties. Willie Williams wasn’t overrated, IMO. Reggie Youngblood and Tyler McMeans, however, were definitely overrated. All were 5* kids.
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With Hunte, I think they are making the same mistake as with McIntosh. Basketball converts with thick bodies and adequate physicality have a long track record of success.

The top schools have picked up on that, which is why both guys had bigger offers than their rankings.

DL are hard to predict, so time will tell. But the upside is exciting.
 
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