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NFL Fins make multiple 1st round trades

rayray said:
i think two things are true

1. the dolphins got a great deal out of the niners
2. the dolphins paid a steep price to move back up 6 spots

i don't think they actually could have gotten more for the no. 3 pick than they did from the niners -- if you look back at the trades for sam darnold and carson wentz, the dolphins did really well. the colts didn't even get a first for darnold (which was the no. 3 pick), the browns got a first, second, third and fourth for wentz and that was for the no. 2 pick. the dolphins getting two firsts and a third is a really good trade based on these metrics.

the trade back up wasn't great though. trading a future first to move up 6 spots isn't unprecedented but it isn't great value. we don't need to lie to ourselves about that.

in the end the dolphins will get a high level pass catcher in the door w/ tua this season, which clearly they want to do, while picking up a few extra picks for moving down three slots. i think the front office would argue that getting tua an extra year w/ chase, smith or pitts was more valuable than an extra 2022 first round pick. i'm not sure i agree but we'll see how it plays out.

overall i think they downgraded themselves from making a great trade to a pretty good series of moves.
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See, this analysis is much closer to the truth. I'm only skeptical on the 49ers trade (on its own) because of not knowing the value of the future 1s. But, sure, the 49ers trade, on its own, could have been monumental (depending on the 49ers record the next 2 years).

But the Eagles trade was ridiculous.

And the combo platter is not great. #3 overall has tremendous value, even if the Dolphins have swallowed Tua's goo and are not going to pick a QB.
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
I didn't use a bad example, dimwit. I used a great example, which you can't seem to get through your thick skull. You keep talking about Mahomes with the 2021 knowledge of what he became, but if he was such a "clear exception", then nobody would have passed on him. Trubisky wouldn't have been drafted ahead of him.

Again, even when I explain it, you insist on going back to PLAYING comparisons. Not what I said at all. I merely compared the draft EXPECTATIONS, and while the Chiefs liked Mahomes, at least half of the league LITERALLY passed on Mahomes or bypassed the chance to make a modest trade up to take him.

THAT is the point. Not your 20/20 hindsight "yeah Mahomes was a clear exception" nonsense. If that was so **** clear, he would have gone #1 overall. And/or some team would have offered "a haul" to get Mahomes. But, as pointed out, that's not what happened.

So let's compare what actually happened with Mahomes.

The Chiefs jumped 17 spots (from 27 to 10) and gave up a 3rd rounder and a 1st rounder in the next year (keeping in mind that the Chiefs prior year performance put them at the #27 draft pick out of 32 teams). So the Bills dropped 17 spots and picked up a good 3 and a weak 1.

The 49ers jumped 9 spots (from 12 to 3). But the more important analysis is on the Dolphins. To move down 3 spots, the Dolphins GOT a 3rd rounder (compensatory, so worse than the 3rd rounder the Bills got from the Chiefs) and a 1st rounder (keeping in mind that the 49ers are 1 year removed from being in the Super Bowl), and they turned a 4th round pick into a 5th round pick.

I fully realize that the Dolphins did not move down as far as the Bills did in swapping with the Chiefs in 2017 (because Mahomes was not such a "clear exception" in 2017). But the Dolphins made their move and got a worse third rounder than the Bills got, an as-yet-unknown-but-possibly-comparable extra first round pick, and turned a 4th rounder into a 5th rounder.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing how this is some fantastic deal. The Dolphins were better off before the Philly trade. To jump 9 spots, the 49ers gave the Dolphins 2 first-rounders and a compensatory third-rounder. To jump back 6 spots, the Dolphins gave the Eagles a first-rounder and moved down from the fourth to the fifth.

The Eagles deal was idiotic.

If QBs go 1-4, that means the Dolphins get the 8th highest non-QB pick if they stick at 12. Oh, but the Dolphins didn't want to be goaded into picking Rousseau, because he's a scumbag opt-outtie.

OK, fine, it was a brilliant bit of draft strategery. Happy now?
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That was really detailed lol. We should have waited and I think could have gotten more...What was the rush in doing it today?
 
CaneDawgCrew said:
That was really detailed lol. We should have waited and I think could have gotten more...What was the rush in doing it today?
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I don't know, man. That was my concern, the two deals were done nearly simultaneously, which indicates that this was all part of a pre-arranged deal to "only" move back 3 spots.

As I mentioned earlier, I think teams eager to move up (after seeing a QB work out) would have given up more capital to get to #3. Pit some teams against each other and see who antes up the most.

And FVCK Philadelphia. I hate everything about that nasty city, except for cheesesteaks and Wawa.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
This is why I wait to see what the "final" version of the deal is.

So...we went from #3 overall to #6 overall...

And in return, we get:
1. a SF first round pick in 2 years (which may be a low first-rounder)
2. a SF compensatory 3rd rounder (between the 3rd and 4th rounds)
3. a DROP from 123rd (early fourth round?) to 156th (late fourth round?)

Hey, if the 2023 first round pick turns out to be something, then maybe. Otherwise, it doesn't seem like much of "a haul".

And I'm not saying that the Dolphins should have stayed at #3, just that it doesn't seem like we got much out of a position that will likely be a QB. In past years, teams have benefitted greatly from moving down if they didn't need a QB.

Maybe this will look better later. I'm not super-impressed today, though.
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In 2013 the Miami Dolfinas traded their first-round pick (No. 12) and second-round pick (No. 42) to move up all the way to No. 3 in the draft. From a value perspective, I remember thinking the Dolfinas had fleeced Oakland and would take future Pro Bowl tackle Lane Johnson. Instead, they took a drug addict clown named Dion Jordan.
 
No_Fly_Zone said:
In 2013 the Miami Dolfinas traded their first-round pick (No. 12) and second-round pick (No. 42) to move up all the way to No. 3 in the draft. From a value perspective, I remember thinking the Dolfinas had fleeced Oakland and would take future Pro Bowl tackle Lane Johnson. Instead, they took a drug addict clown named Dion Jordan.
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You are absolutely right, which is why I like to wait on the evals until we see who is picked.

2 years played, 1 year of suspension, 1 year of not playing. 1 start, 3 sacks, 46 total tackles/assists.

It's hard to find a worse #3 overall than Dion Jordan. It's possible, but hard.
 
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Rellyrell said:
I think Ja’marr Chase is the best WR in this draft; but he’s a forgotten due to the opt out. I picked up Jefferson in my FFB league & I knew he would be killer. Well, Chase is Jefferson on roids. That kid made Terrell, a 1st round draft pick, look like he was a future UDFA.
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seen two updated drafts that show QBs going 1-4 and Sewell going 5. Would be an amazing job by the Fins.
 
I see some folks mentioning Waddle at 6. Isn't he more of a complimentary piece? If both Chase and Smith are gone, can you justifiably take Waddle at 6?
 
DMoney said:
The Dolphins basically traded back one spot.

Atlanta will take a QB or trade out to a team coming up for a QB.
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and they are going to draft the same guy at 6 than at 3. I would like Waddle. Plus an extra 1st round pick to boot. NO ONE thought the Tunsil trade would bring in the #3 pick so I'm not discounting SF ******** it up with a rookie QB.
 
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AlexCane said:
I see some folks mentioning Waddle at 6. Isn't he more of a complimentary piece? If both Chase and Smith are gone, can you justifiably take Waddle at 6?
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"Jaylen Waddle was outpacing Smith in yards per route run in the Alabama receiver room. At the time of his injury, he was nearly doubling the mark set by former teammate Henry Ruggs in that metric and was a full yard better than Jeudy." Waddle is a #1 receiver. No doubt. Waddle and Fuller together? Speed and more Speed. Something we haven't had a receiver in decades. Waddle played 4 games in 2020 and still put up these numbers REC 28 YDS 591 TD 4 AVG 21.1
 
MikeCane18 said:
Yea. Essentially gained a future 1st and 3rd rounder moving back 3 spots. The Tunsil trade has grown more draft picks lol.

They need to get one of those guys, and dare I say it but if Pitts is there take a look at him too.
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No pitts for me when Jordan could be there in the second and we have two picks there
 
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AlexCane said:
I see some folks mentioning Waddle at 6. Isn't he more of a complimentary piece? If both Chase and Smith are gone, can you justifiably take Waddle at 6?
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the idea of waddle at 6 concerns me. teams fall in love with speed guys when they don't have the ability to fully utilize them. everyone wants tyreek hill but only one team has patrick mahomes. waddle to the dolphins reminds me of the raiders (prob one of the worst front offices in the NFL) taking henry ruggs as the first WR last year when their QB is derek carr. right now it looks like ruggs might not even end up as one of the 5 best receivers in that draft primarily because the fit is terrible. the eagles took jaelan raegor one spot ahead of justin jefferson because they wanted speed -- now if they called up the vikings and offered raegor plus an extra first for jefferson the vikings would laugh and hang up the phone.
 
Acane4ever said:
and they are going to draft the same guy at 6 than at 3. I would like Waddle. Plus an extra 1st round pick to boot. NO ONE thought the Tunsil trade would bring in the #3 pick so I'm not discounting SF ******** it up with a rookie QB.
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And pay him less per year.
 
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Canesfan1899 said:
Well Jordan is a TE, Pitts is a wr and I’d take the other guys over him.
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What makes Pitts special is he is a TE/WR that will cause absolute nightmares for matchups. Well you can hit on a once in lifetime receiver for the most part you get good ones later on. Why not Bateman at 18 I think he has some good size and wheels.
 
CaneDawgCrew said:
What makes Pitts special is he is a TE/WR that will cause absolute nightmares for matchups. Well you can hit on a once in lifetime receiver for the most part you get good ones later on. Why not Bateman at 18 I think he has some good size and wheels.
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****, I read this wrong and though Batman had entered the draft.
 
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