NFL Fins make multiple 1st round trades

[TheOriginalCane]

3 First round picks for a team in the middle of a rebuild that has a 1st round qb they selected just last year. They trade a pick they likely weren't going to use on a QB to a team willing to give up 3 first round picks. IDK about you but SF breaking in a qb year 1 makes me think they won't be much better if any better than they were this year. So you're getting 3 first round picks for a pick that you likely would have overdrafted a WR or Pitts at. Now you just traded 12 and one of those extra firsts to hop right back up to 6 to likely grab that weapon. So basically you were gifted a first and a third to move down 3 spots and still get the guy you want. Seems like a haul to me. I'm a Patriots fan btw.

Just be honest. The Philly trade degraded "the haul" they got from SF.

The "third" is compensatory. So more like "fourth".

Plus they just traded DOWN in the fourth.

I'm not knocking the extra first-rounder. An extra "fourth rounder" and a trade-slot-swap-down in the fourth doesn't impress me much. It just seems like the overall return wasn't a lot to net from a team trying to get to #3 to draft a QB.

 

[CaneLife93]

I'm sure people said that about Patrick Mahomes too.

Look, the entire trend of the NFL is that if you can find a starting QB on his rookie-scale contract, you can afford to put money in the other positions. And there aren't many Tom Brady types left, guys who can walk through the door and take you to the Super Bowl, so talented and young (and cheap) QBs are big currency in today's NFL.

As for San Francisco, they were 13-3 two years ago. It's easy to rebound from a 6-10 season that was impaired by a rash of injuries. Five of their ten losses were by one score or less. If you don't think that San Francisco could be right back to Super Bowl contention rapidly, then you must not watch football very closely.

Agree.

Kyle Shannahan does wonders with his QBs. Probably Shannahan hates that Jimmy G gets hurt early and often in season, and the NFC West super competitive. Doesn’t matter how many picks the dolphins get imo if San Frans QB pick hits, because I think that would result in Super Bowls and the dolphins would have to match that imo, or at least as close as possible.

I’m curious if they move off Jimmy G during FA or the season. If so, I’m betting on the Pats with that relationship from years past.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Getting an extra first for a guy Miami was going to draft anyways is pretty huge

Hilarious. That's what guys say who try to rationalize the deal.

Again, analyzed differently, getting one extra 1st rounder from an entire trading process that started with a team trying to move into the Top 3 to get a QB does not seem to be some amazing haul. AT THIS TIME.

I prefer to analyze these deals once we see who is drafted. It MIGHT be a great deal. It might be fool's gold.

 

[lf26soda]

Hilarious. That's what guys say who try to rationalize the deal.

Again, analyzed differently, getting one extra 1st rounder from an entire trading process that started with a team trying to move into the Top 3 to get a QB does not seem to be some amazing haul. AT THIS TIME.

I prefer to analyze these deals once we see who is drafted. It MIGHT be a great deal. It might be fool's gold.

I think the development of Tua also has a big impact on this trade as well. Miami is all in on him now

 

[margate]

i like it

 

[RealRussellPumps]

Just be honest. The Philly trade degraded "the haul" they got from SF.

The "third" is compensatory. So more like "fourth".

Plus they just traded DOWN in the fourth.

I'm not knocking the extra first-rounder. An extra "fourth rounder" and a trade-slot-swap-down in the fourth doesn't impress me much. It just seems like the overall return wasn't a lot to net from a team trying to get to #3 to draft a QB.

Prior to the trade back up to 6 I still think it was an absolute Haul. 3 first rounders for a pick you didn't want to have to make. I'd take that all day. The fact that you were able to get an extra 1 to basically drop a couple spots and will still get the guy you wanted at 3 anyways is an absolutely fantastic move by your GM.

 

[ajkreider]

Just a quick mock draft
1-3 will most likely be qb’s. Then 4 is a toss up and 5 will be Sewell. At 6 there will be at least 3 of these guys Waddle, Smith, Pitts or Chase. We can still get a weapon for tua

Couldn't gotten Waddle at 12, so prolly not him.

 

[Page305]

As long as we get Smith or Chase, I'm not mad.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Pitts at 6 would be a **** of a consolation prize.

 

[avax]

I'm ok with the trades as long as we get tools for Tua. Staying with all those 1st rounders would have had a salary cap issue down the road too

 

[fincane]

I'm sure people said that about Patrick Mahomes too.

Look, the entire trend of the NFL is that if you can find a starting QB on his rookie-scale contract, you can afford to put money in the other positions. And there aren't many Tom Brady types left, guys who can walk through the door and take you to the Super Bowl, so talented and young (and cheap) QBs are big currency in today's NFL.

As for San Francisco, they were 13-3 two years ago. It's easy to rebound from a 6-10 season that was impaired by a rash of injuries. Five of their ten losses were by one score or less. If you don't think that San Francisco could be right back to Super Bowl contention rapidly, then you must not watch football very closely.

Using the exception and a potential all-time great is a solid start. Well what if one of these guys is Pat Mahomes?" Ok. What if the guy they take is Blake Bortles?

San Francisco was 7-3 in coin flip games in 2019. So they could've been 6-10 during their Super Bowl year if one-score bounces flip the other way and that was seen in 2020. Why should 2019 be a predictor of future success when Kyle Shanahan has three double digit loss seasons out of his first 4 years in San Fran? So the hope is that either Garoppalo stays healthy which he never does or some rookie QB gets it done in the toughest division in football. Good luck with that.

Recent history suggest that if you're not an established contender in your first 3 seasons or so it never happens and only Andy Reid has won a Super Bowl over the last two decades after not winning in that first 5 years. Shanahan is more likely to get fired after the year than get it turned around if history can be trusted.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I think the development of Tua also has a big impact on this trade as well. Miami is all in on him now

Yeah, and that's a part of it that I'm uncomfortable with. Sorry, but you can pull my old posts, I was never a fan of "Tank for Tua".

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Using the exception and a potential all-time great is a solid start. Well what if one of these guys is Pat Mahomes?" Ok. What if the guy they take is Blake Bortles?

San Francisco was 7-3 in coin flip games in 2019. So they could've been 6-10 during their Super Bowl year if one-score bounces flip the other way and that was seen in 2020. Why should 2019 be a predictor of future success when Kyle Shanahan has three double digit loss seasons out of his first 4 years in San Fran? So the hope is that either Garoppalo stays healthy which he never does or some rookie QB gets it done in the toughest division in football. Good luck with that.

Recent history suggest that if you're not an established contender in your first 3 seasons or so it never happens and only Andy Reid has won a Super Bowl over the last two decades after not winning in that first 5 years. Shanahan is more likely to get fired then get it turned around if history can be trusted.

Jesus Christ. This is why it is so hard to use EXAMPLES, because hardheaded people can't handle context.

I did NOT compare the PLAY of Mahomes to the PLAY of any other QB. I just said that when Mahomes was drafted, it would have been easy to say "I don't see him taking KC to the Super Bowl", and yet he did.

That is ALL. Even though most teams in the league are eager to get a young QB on a cost-controlled contract, SOME PEOPLE will act as if "that guy is not taking us to the Super Bowl". But then it happens.

****, the Dolphins are pushing all their chips into the middle of the table with Tua. Look, like it or not, if a team invests in a QB with a Top 5 pick, THEY HAVE SUPER BOWL EXPECTATIONS. Maybe not Year 1, but soon.

And SF has a pretty talented team, so they will at least become a CONTENDER with a good, young QB. That's the point. SF is not exactly pre-Brady-Tampa-Bay in the incompetence area. Or any-era-Detroit.

 

[fincane]

Jesus Christ. This is why it is so hard to use EXAMPLES, because hardheaded people can't handle context.

I did NOT compare the PLAY of Mahomes to the PLAY of any other QB. I just said that when Mahomes was drafted, it would have been easy to say "I don't see him taking KC to the Super Bowl", and yet he did.

That is ALL. Even though most teams in the league are eager to get a young QB on a cost-controlled contract, SOME PEOPLE will act as if "that guy is not taking us to the Super Bowl". But then it happens.

****, the Dolphins are pushing all their chips into the middle of the table with Tua. Look, like it or not, if a team invests in a QB with a Top 5 pick, THEY HAVE SUPER BOWL EXPECTATIONS. Maybe not Year 1, but soon.

And SF has a pretty talented team, so they will at least become a CONTENDER with a good, young QB. That's the point. SF is not exactly pre-Brady-Tampa-Bay in the incompetence area. Or any-era-Detroit.

You used a bad example. A clear exception with otherworldly gifts. Use Jared Goff. Justin Herbert was a good young QB on a talented team and finished 7-9 with a coach that got fired after having a better overall record than what Shanahan has. The Chargers can tell you all about close past losses meaning nothing in terms of predicting future success.

 

[CaneThang2020]

What in the FVCK? A "haul"?

They are giving up a #3 pick, a pick that in any given year can be converted into a franchise QB...

For a #12 first-round pick...a compensatory pick in the 3rd (sandwiched between the 3rd and 4th rounds)...and two future #1s when San Francisco will likely be a Super Bowl caliber team, which will then probably be late first-rounders?

Jimmy Johnson laughs.

Let's maybe wait to evaluate this trade until we see who is selected with those picks. Or let's wait until closer to the draft when someone gets desperate to move up.

Good lord, we have some Miami pro-team homers who are just rhapsodizing about trades these last few days.

San Fran super bowl caliber.....they didn't even make the playoffs last year TOC...

Rams will get better with Stafford than Goff....and they were a playoff team already last year
Cardinals will definitely get better....
Seahawks trade RussWilson they take a step back and not make the playoffs.
49ers after drafting a rookie QB are Super Bowl caliber (coupled with losing their DEF Coordinator RSaleh)

TOC.....idk about that.....while i agree that they should've squeezed to get more out of the 2021 draft such as a 2nd rounder and a 4th instead of a 3rd.....but my money will be on 49ers pick at least translating to a couple Top 15-18 picks. 49ers aren't a top 10 team in the NFL...

 

[TheOriginalCane]

San Fran super bowl caliber.....they didn't even make the playoffs last year TOC...

Rams will get better with Stafford than Goff....and they were a playoff team already last year
Cardinals will definitely get better....
Seahawks trade RussWilson they take a step back and not make the playoffs.
49ers after drafting a rookie QB are Super Bowl caliber (coupled with losing their DEF Coordinator RSaleh)

TOC.....idk about that.....while i agree that they should've squeezed to get more out of the 2021 draft such as a 2nd rounder and a 4th instead of a 3rd.....but my money will be on 49ers pick at least translating to a couple Top 15-18 picks. 49ers aren't a top 10 team in the NFL...

And they MADE the Super Bowl the year before. Can we please stop pretending that San Francisco is equivalent to Detroit?

Please, just read my words and stop projecting stuff, like clueless fincane does.

I said that it is very easy to project San Francisco as a Super Bowl contender with a new QB.
---SF was IN a Super Bowl 13 months ago
---SF lost 5 of their 10 games last year by one score or less
---SF had the highest number of Injured Reserve players in the league at the end of the 2020 season

All that needs to be projected is better health, good QB play, and better outcomes in close games. Besides, a lot of fincane-level morons are overly fixated on my use of the term "Super Bowl contenders", so let's back the fvck down and talk about reality.

IT'S THE PICK. So what do you think happens with the SF pick? Can anyone honestly say that they expect SF to have the third-worst record in the league (which would yield a pick comparable to what we had with the Texans first-rounder this year)? OR, INSTEAD, do you think that SF is fully capable of bouncing back to a winning record, in which case the pick will be in the later first round REGARDLESS OF WHETHER SF MAKES THE SUPER BOWL.

So it's time for fincane to put away his tampons and realize what we are actually talking about. It's not about whether SF will ACTUALLY make the Super Bowl, it's about whether SF will have a winning record and play this draft pick into a low first-rounder.

Which is highly possible. If people are being honest, and not nitpicky a$$holes, like fincane.

 

[CaneDawgCrew]

We traded back and allowed a team to get a potential franchise QB and received what amounts to a 2023 first rounder that if SF plays well could look like a low first round selection. We should have held out and maybe could have gotten more when teams started to sweat.

I don't like it but who knows and the only reason I don't like it is we held all the cards and settled for maybe a "fair" trade.

 

[Rellyrell]

If Chase is still there at six this was a beautiful deal for the Fins.

I think Ja’marr Chase is the best WR in this draft; but he’s a forgotten due to the opt out. I picked up Jefferson in my FFB league & I knew he would be killer. Well, Chase is Jefferson on roids. That kid made Terrell, a 1st round draft pick, look like he was a future UDFA.

 

[rayray]

i think two things are true

1. the dolphins got a great deal out of the niners
2. the dolphins paid a steep price to move back up 6 spots

i don't think they actually could have gotten more for the no. 3 pick than they did from the niners -- if you look back at the trades for sam darnold and carson wentz, the dolphins did really well. the colts didn't even get a first for darnold (which was the no. 3 pick), the browns got a first, second, third and fourth for wentz and that was for the no. 2 pick. the dolphins getting two firsts and a third is a really good trade based on these metrics.

the trade back up wasn't great though. trading a future first to move up 6 spots isn't unprecedented but it isn't great value. we don't need to lie to ourselves about that.

in the end the dolphins will get a high level pass catcher in the door w/ tua this season, which clearly they want to do, while picking up a few extra picks for moving down three slots. i think the front office would argue that getting tua an extra year w/ chase, smith or pitts was more valuable than an extra 2022 first round pick. i'm not sure i agree but we'll see how it plays out.

overall i think they downgraded themselves from making a great trade to a pretty good series of moves.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

You used a bad example. A clear exception with otherworldly gifts. Use Jared Goff. Justin Herbert was a good young QB on a talented team and finished 7-9 with a coach that got fired after having a better overall record than what Shanahan has. The Chargers can tell you all about close past losses meaning nothing in terms of predicting future success.

I didn't use a bad example, dimwit. I used a great example, which you can't seem to get through your thick skull. You keep talking about Mahomes with the 2021 knowledge of what he became, but if he was such a "clear exception", then nobody would have passed on him. Trubisky wouldn't have been drafted ahead of him.

Again, even when I explain it, you insist on going back to PLAYING comparisons. Not what I said at all. I merely compared the draft EXPECTATIONS, and while the Chiefs liked Mahomes, at least half of the league LITERALLY passed on Mahomes or bypassed the chance to make a modest trade up to take him.

THAT is the point. Not your 20/20 hindsight "yeah Mahomes was a clear exception" nonsense. If that was so **** clear, he would have gone #1 overall. And/or some team would have offered "a haul" to get Mahomes. But, as pointed out, that's not what happened.

So let's compare what actually happened with Mahomes.

The Chiefs jumped 17 spots (from 27 to 10) and gave up a 3rd rounder and a 1st rounder in the next year (keeping in mind that the Chiefs prior year performance put them at the #27 draft pick out of 32 teams). So the Bills dropped 17 spots and picked up a good 3 and a weak 1.

The 49ers jumped 9 spots (from 12 to 3). But the more important analysis is on the Dolphins. To move down 3 spots, the Dolphins GOT a 3rd rounder (compensatory, so worse than the 3rd rounder the Bills got from the Chiefs) and a 1st rounder (keeping in mind that the 49ers are 1 year removed from being in the Super Bowl), and they turned a 4th round pick into a 5th round pick.

I fully realize that the Dolphins did not move down as far as the Bills did in swapping with the Chiefs in 2017 (because Mahomes was not such a "clear exception" in 2017). But the Dolphins made their move and got a worse third rounder than the Bills got, an as-yet-unknown-but-possibly-comparable extra first round pick, and turned a 4th rounder into a 5th rounder.

Sorry, I'm just not seeing how this is some fantastic deal. The Dolphins were better off before the Philly trade. To jump 9 spots, the 49ers gave the Dolphins 2 first-rounders and a compensatory third-rounder. To jump back 6 spots, the Dolphins gave the Eagles a first-rounder and moved down from the fourth to the fifth.

The Eagles deal was idiotic.

If QBs go 1-4, that means the Dolphins get the 8th highest non-QB pick if they stick at 12. Oh, but the Dolphins didn't want to be goaded into picking Rousseau, because he's a scumbag opt-outtie.

OK, fine, it was a brilliant bit of draft strategery. Happy now?