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Doesn't make sense

Roman Marciante said:


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=C&collegeName=Clemson&abbrFlag=0&type=school

In an 11 year time frame (2019-2009) Clemson has had 7 top 25 scoring offenses while Miami has had ZERO.

Yet Clemson has not had a single first round offensive linemen drafted and only TWO offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

Miami? Has had a first round offensive lineman and a total of EIGHT offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

The offensive struggles blamed solely on the offensive line talent seriously took a hit no? I think it's safe to say coaching matters, development matters and system fit is imperative.
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Great logical point.
 
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Fawk_U Haters said:
Again LOL.

It's the Jimmy's and the Joe's not the X's and the O's kid. And this isn't to say that we were less talented or we even need more talent to beat FIU, Duke, and GT. But how about being honest, should Duke CBs lock down our WRs in man all game? Should FIU, outside of the great call on the WR screen for a TD after a TO, really move the ball against our D? I mean did we get a sack in FIU? Should our QB have 3 picks before almost the end of the 1Q? You mean to tell me they 'schemed' up something so well and so out coached us that our vaunted DL couldn't make 1 play? We had the nations second leading Sack master and he couldn't shed 1 block and make a few plays? Don't even get me started on the kicking game! Should Duke WRs be running free in critical times? Should GT fake punts score when we have defense safe on the field? Should our OL not be able to get a finger on players who are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less talented?

Somewhere along the line what you put on tape has to matter. Doesn't matter what your record is, it should matter what you put on tape because that does matter to the people who will decide whether or not you can play in the NFL. Basically PRIDE doesn't let you dog it for multiple games, PRIDE doesn't let you get locked down by inferior athletes. The teams we lost too for the most part didn't out scheme us, didn't out play call us for the most part (VT how they used the TE picked on Shaq), didn't do anything except their kids wanted to beat us more and our kids didn't care if they were beat.

This isn't a ringing endorsement of the staff, this isn't defending the staff, this isn't saying there shouldn't be changes, but this is saying the problem is way more than just coaching. It doesn't matter when you scheme or what the play call is when you have a team like this. Plays are there to be made, not spectacular plays that make the Top 10, just regular plays are there to be made. When we were great we always made those plays, always. It wasn't coaching, it was players making plays that were there to be made.
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I don't like to put much weight in absolutes, so I definitely agree with you that it can't be all blamed on the coaches. But I do wish the players were making these great plays due to great coaching and playcalling instead of making plays in spite of their corching.
 
Roman Marciante said:


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=C&collegeName=Clemson&abbrFlag=0&type=school

In an 11 year time frame (2019-2009) Clemson has had 7 top 25 scoring offenses while Miami has had ZERO.

Yet Clemson has not had a single first round offensive linemen drafted and only TWO offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

Miami? Has had a first round offensive lineman and a total of EIGHT offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

The offensive struggles blamed solely on the offensive line talent seriously took a hit no? I think it's safe to say coaching matters, development matters and system fit is imperative.
Click to expand...


roman:

any coach will tell you: "given a choice between the better system or the better players, i will always take the better players."

that being said, i 100% agree with you.

if you don't put those players in the best system for their talent, then, they're just not going to play very well.
 
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Roman Marciante said:
I didn't forget to mention something that I wasn't mentioning. It wasn't a qb debate. It was an offensive line one.

The top scoring offenses was a back drop. But according to your logic... offensive line doesn't matter.. only a really good qb does.
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You shouldn't put words into people’s mouth.

The back drop is scoring offenses without NFL players on the OL right? That's a cherry picked stat that you spent hours looking up and researching that doesn't mean anything. Just means that at the highest levels of the game, where everyone is an athlete and really good, Clemson OL prospects don't have what NFL evaluators crave....mainly superior athleticism. You also make it sound like Clemson hasn't signed a lot of top 250 prospects on the OL either which isn't true.

My point is that way more goes into having a top scoring offense than caliber of NFL prospect on your OL. You know like having a great QB. How many bad plays did Deshaun avoid by being Deshaun in 4 straight years? Same for the kid that transferred. Trevor lawrence, while not being the runner that Deshaun was, has a pretty quick release. Would that not help the scoring offense despite the lack of NFL talent up front?

I'm not one of those people who think we can't win with our OL. I think they played well enough for us to win every game we lost outside of FL and Duke
 
alncane said:
I don't like to put much weight in absolutes, so I definitely agree with you that it can't be all blamed on the coaches. But I do wish the players were making these great plays due to great coaching and playcalling instead of making plays in spite of their corching.
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I don't disagree one bit, i truly don't.

Do we have some coaching, play calling, scheme problems....yes we do, but i don't think it's all that like some one here. Coaching matters most when teams are equally talented IMO, when Miami is playing Duke, FIU, GT, in 2019 you and me should be able to call the O & D and walk away with a 35 point victory.
 
Roman Marciante said:


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=C&collegeName=Clemson&abbrFlag=0&type=school

In an 11 year time frame (2019-2009) Clemson has had 7 top 25 scoring offenses while Miami has had ZERO.

Yet Clemson has not had a single first round offensive linemen drafted and only TWO offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

Miami? Has had a first round offensive lineman and a total of EIGHT offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

The offensive struggles blamed solely on the offensive line talent seriously took a hit no? I think it's safe to say coaching matters, development matters and system fit is imperative.
Click to expand...


Blake James and Jennifer Strawley just banned you from participating in all self help courses taught at the U.
 
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Their oline Are developed better therefore plays bette..Boise state always has a strong run game, but not all their backs go on to get drafted..Washington st always has a top pass offense but they send guys to the league..even in the NFL the patriots lines always play well, but they don’t constantly send 3 or 4 to the all pro
 
jkaz1 said:
Lots of pieces go into a player and a team being successful.

#1 rated players we've had (at their positions) that worked out:

-the DT from Carol City from around 40 years ago (can't think of his name, played with the Patriots in the pros)
- Damien Lewis, top DT
- Jesse Armstead and DJ Williams, top LBs
- Greg Olsen, top TE (xfer from ND)
- Brock Berlin, top QB (xfer from UF)
- Kenny Phillips, top S
- Tracy Howard, top CB

and probably others I can't think of at the moment.

#1 rated players we've had that really didn't work out:

- Arthur Brown and Willie Williams, LBs
- Marcus Forston, DT
- Ryan Moore, WR
- Kyle Wright, QB
- Seantrel Henderson, OT (sketchy on him though - maybe he was productive here, can't remember too well)

For many of the top picks that worked out, we had a solid staff. For those that didn't, we didn't have the best staff in any of these cases.

Having the wrong staff costs a lot of wins for the team and a lot of potential future NFL money for the players.
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Lester Williams

Also add Jammi German of limogate fame
 
Some on this site are standing behind their argument that they were simply no schemes/formations that we could have implemented using our offensive linemen this year to obtain greater success. I don’t believe this but would love to hear from those that are more knowledgeable. Also, what would our linemen look like if they were in Wisconsin’s program for say 1-2 years? My guess would be that they would look a lot better. Need to develop talent better.
 
It also makes no sense that dudes like rj and norton and Garvin etc etc Decide to leave while Clemson keeps day 1 picks for 4 years.
 
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Fawk_U Haters said:
Again LOL.

It's the Jimmy's and the Joe's not the X's and the O's kid. And this isn't to say that we were less talented or we even need more talent to beat FIU, Duke, and GT. But how about being honest, should Duke CBs lock down our WRs in man all game? Should FIU, outside of the great call on the WR screen for a TD after a TO, really move the ball against our D? I mean did we get a sack in FIU? Should our QB have 3 picks before almost the end of the 1Q? You mean to tell me they 'schemed' up something so well and so out coached us that our vaunted DL couldn't make 1 play? We had the nations second leading Sack master and he couldn't shed 1 block and make a few plays? Don't even get me started on the kicking game! Should Duke WRs be running free in critical times? Should GT fake punts score when we have defense safe on the field? Should our OL not be able to get a finger on players who are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay less talented?

Somewhere along the line what you put on tape has to matter. Doesn't matter what your record is, it should matter what you put on tape because that does matter to the people who will decide whether or not you can play in the NFL. Basically PRIDE doesn't let you dog it for multiple games, PRIDE doesn't let you get locked down by inferior athletes. The teams we lost too for the most part didn't out scheme us, didn't out play call us for the most part (VT how they used the TE picked on Shaq), didn't do anything except their kids wanted to beat us more and our kids didn't care if they were beat.

This isn't a ringing endorsement of the staff, this isn't defending the staff, this isn't saying there shouldn't be changes, but this is saying the problem is way more than just coaching. It doesn't matter when you scheme or what the play call is when you have a team like this. Plays are there to be made, not spectacular plays that make the Top 10, just regular plays are there to be made. When we were great we always made those plays, always. It wasn't coaching, it was players making plays that were there to be made.
Click to expand...

Agree with this. This same staff that coached the FIU and Duke games also coached and schemed the FSU and Virginia games. When you're beating the better teams and losing to the worst teams, the cause of that difference is not scheme, it's players who have zero pride and commitment to their preparation and game play when the opponent isn't a **** enough brand for them to get excited over.

That said, I agree with most everyone that Enos and the scheme need to be replaced. But that's ONE of our problems. The team culture issue is critical too and may be difficult to fix with existing players. No one should be deluded into thinking that solving one of them is enough.
 
Roman Marciante said:


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?abbr=C&collegeName=Clemson&abbrFlag=0&type=school

In an 11 year time frame (2019-2009) Clemson has had 7 top 25 scoring offenses while Miami has had ZERO.

Yet Clemson has not had a single first round offensive linemen drafted and only TWO offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

Miami? Has had a first round offensive lineman and a total of EIGHT offensive linemen drafted in that time frame.

The offensive struggles blamed solely on the offensive line talent seriously took a hit no? I think it's safe to say coaching matters, development matters and system fit is imperative.
Click to expand...


It makes perfect sense Roman you need 5 future HOFers to beat FIU, you can’t coach a guy to get push in the run game.
 
MIATL said:
I think Dabo is an elite coach.

He built Clemson, from the ground up.

He wasn’t elite on day 1 ... Thus, the loses to Shannon. But today, I don’t think there is a better college coach.
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LoL, i can understand why you'd think that if you havent been following college football long, but Trust me, that guy dabo is nothing special, just in an extremely all in situation. Once clemson got their bag game up and Fsu dropped the ball, Clemson took over. Fsu has now hired a guy that they can go all in on again who may be their for the long haul, if that guy stays for about 5 years, Fsu will be back battling Clemson for t b at side of the division, ole willie didnt do to bad recruiting, neither did gumbo, their problem has been finding a qb. If we just hired a headcoach with real headcoaching experience that's not a moron, this school would've never fallen. This far down, but ole flake james, plucked off of the troll shalala castration tree keeps using the same playbook that double agent did, hire headcoaches that'll feel grateful you gave them their 1st chance to be a headcoach.

Old gumbo fisher is a better headcoach than dabo, i could name several headcoaches who are better than dabo, dabo just got to an all in situation, so tge surrounded him with top level coordinators, prior to, wherewas his headcoaching experience. Its like a guy turning pro who doesnt have an extensive amateur career, you dont find to many champions or guys that remain chaampions who dont have an extensive amateur career, so it is and was with dabo. Just a regular headcoach, he just understands how to run and manage the auxiliary functions at a high level that help to build Clemson into the S.e.c.schoolof the ACC, some of us know what'x going on.
 
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Dghustla said:
It makes perfect sense Roman you need 5 future HOFers to beat FIU, you can’t coach a guy to get push in the run game.
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more like....you need coaches that actually know what they are doing to beat FIU, Georgia Tech, Duke, etc...

Unfortunately, Miami has a terrible OC and a very in experienced DC and Head Coach
 
Lester is the guy.

He was on the Pats team (starting DT) that got spanked by the Bears in the '85 Super Bowl.

We had two starting DBs on that team, too - Fred Marion and ..... Ken Calhoun, I think.

Didn't know German was #1. I know that the fans were expecting a lot from him, but I don't recall him being a major player for us.

PensacolaCane said:
Lester Williams

Also add Jammi German of limogate fame
Click to expand...
 
Calvin said:
LoL, i can understand why you'd think that if you havent been following college football long, but Trust me, that guy dabo is nothing special, just in an extremely all in situation........

Old gumbo fisher is a better headcoach than dabo, i could name several headcoaches who are better than dabo, dabo just got to an all in situation, so tge surrounded him with top level coordinators, prior to, wherewas his headcoaching experience.........
Click to expand...

The guy took over a mediocre team that hadn't won the ACC in 19 years and has made them into the top program in college football. And you're still in denial trying to convince yourself that he's "nothing special"? OK then.
 
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