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Dennis Erickson

caneinorlando said:
Howards 83 NC team was made up with ALOT of Sabans kids....But lets not let facts get in the way...
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Actually, Saban only coached through the 1978 season, due to the Hillel incident. Saban recruited Kelly, who was gone by 1983.

I agree with your point about Saban getting the ball rolling, but all of his players were gone by 1983.

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TheOriginalCane said:
Are you just a glutton for punishment? Are you only capable of quoting from the NCAA report because you DON'T KNOW and you WEREN'T THERE? Do you have a glossy, bound copy of the NCAA report under your pillow?

"Numerous" (actually, a few) football players took outside jobs, such as working security at the Grove Arts Festival. Yes, some of the former football players reached out to (then) current football players to do security jobs.

You want the rest?

Yes, a couple of football players were suspended in 1986 for taking a "below-market" lease on an apartment, an apartment that was next to the trash chute and had been unable to be rented.

Yes, a couple of football players were suspended in 1986 for getting rental cars from that old car rental agency in downtown Gables.

Yes, a couple of football players had to repay students in 1986 for using their phone calling card numbers (ah, the good old days).

I'm just trying to get everything out in the open so that you don't keep quoting some generic nonsense from your personal copy of the NCAA report.

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@Mike Thot ....where ya at you Hit & Run Puzzy...
 
hotshot said:
And JJ won with Schnelly's recruits. What's new?

JJ let Maryland come back from a 31-0 deficit, at the OB, to lose. Players didn't execute for him on Hail Flutie play, or in what woulda been a NC game against Tennessee in the '86 Sugar Bowl. Not to mention the Penn State debacle in the desert.

Do you really think Schnelly or JJ, as much as I love 'em, would've come out clean in any sort of NCAA investigation? My guess is a loud "No."
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Stop it. Just stop it.

The 1984 season was a shambles because Howard left so late in the off-season and JJ was forced to keep ALL of Howard's assistants. Only after the 1984 disaster was JJ allowed to clean house and bring in his own guys.

JJ didn't "let" Maryland come back, or BC come back. His coaching staff was in open revolt during 1984.

You can whine about the 1986 Sugar Bowl or the 1987 Fiasco Bowl, but 1984 was an assistant-coaching disaster beyond JJ's control.

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TheOriginalCane said:
Actually, Saban only coached through the 1978 season, due to the Hillel incident. Saban recruited Kelly, who was gone by 1983.

I agree with your point about Saban getting the ball rolling, but all of his players were gone by 1983.

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The 81 team should have played for NC....They beat 5 ranked teams...and lost two because of terrible calls against Texas and Ole Miss....Tony Fitzpatrick is a close friend of mine...so is Punter Greg Labelle....both were Saban kids...as was most of the 81 team....Tony told me last yr at the ND game that I attended with him and a few other former Canes, that the officiating in the Texas and Miss games was the worst in UM History...
 
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I was at Greentree alot from 81-83....Took lots of Pics....Kelly with unknown player (can't remember name @Matador might know) in 82
 
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caneinorlando said:
He was a F-ing Drunk who ONLY Won with JJs kids....Terrible recruiter....left the program in shambles...and was ABUSED by Bama in the NC game with the Stupidest Gameplan in UM History.
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He won though. Like Howard, Jimmy, and Clappy. BoRtch never won.
 
TheOriginalCane said:
Are you just a glutton for punishment? Are you only capable of quoting from the NCAA report because you DON'T KNOW and you WEREN'T THERE? Do you have a glossy, bound copy of the NCAA report under your pillow?

"Numerous" (actually, a few) football players took outside jobs, such as working security at the Grove Arts Festival. Yes, some of the former football players reached out to (then) current football players to do security jobs.

You want the rest?

Yes, a couple of football players were suspended in 1986 for taking a "below-market" lease on an apartment, an apartment that was next to the trash chute and had been unable to be rented.

Yes, a couple of football players were suspended in 1986 for getting rental cars from that old car rental agency in downtown Gables.

Yes, a couple of football players had to repay students in 1986 for using their phone calling card numbers (ah, the good old days).

I'm just trying to get everything out in the open so that you don't keep quoting some generic nonsense from your personal copy of the NCAA report.

.
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thanks for the posts. i was definitley wrong to use "Pell Grant" as a catch all for improper bene's. that's my bad.

was Dennis implicated by the NCAA during its investigation?
 
Erickson's downfall was his inability to recruit coupled with a complete lack of discipline around the program. He was a sharp Xs and Os guy though. His one back offense was so innovative that almost every single team in college football runs some form of one back offense now. Any offensive coach worth a **** will recognize him as a precurser to the modern offenses.
 
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Mike Thot said:
thanks for the posts. i was definitley wrong to use "Pell Grant" as a catch all for improper bene's. that's my bad.

was Dennis implicated by the NCAA during its investigation?
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Yes, Dennis was implicated for SOME things, and then others fell under Lack of Institutional Control.

The most well-known of the DENNIS-SPECIFIC issues are when he put Warren Sapp's positive drug test in his top drawer because he was "reviewing our drug test policy", when the reality is that Erickson actually did nothing to review or change our existing drug test policy.

Clearly, the most hotly-debated issue of "what did Dennis know" involves Pell Grants. If you actually read the articles from which I pulled those quotes, you will find out that a lot of the players were OPENLY talking about Tony Russell helping them out. Also, Russell's job (and the fact that his son Twan was on the team) gave him easy access to the players, such that Russell often approached the players rather than the other way around.

We can debate this all day and all night, but the overall indictment of Erickson was that his drinking problem (and I personally witnessed this myself, several times, including after games and on-campus, i.e., at the Faculty Club) and his "above-it-all" approach led to a situation where the players were not comfortable approaching him with any issues that they might have. Please note that there were absolutely no allegations regarding academics, as Dr. Anna Price had that side on lockdown, but she was probably the person that those players trusted the most, rather than the coaches.

Obviously, Erickson didn't START each and every problem that was specified in the NCAA report, but he was NOT an activist coach and he didn't do much to "lay down the law" after the half-assed effort to control the player celebrations in 1990. I don't blame Dennis for everything, but he was absolutely a (somewhat functional) fall-down drunk. While he won 2 quick titles in his first 3 years, the discipline and results declined every year after, as the recruits became his (rather than JJ's).

I still admire and respect the guy, he was capable of very good coaching and tremendous innovation, but as far as "running the program", I think that the results speak for themselves.

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DTP said:
Erickson's downfall was his inability to recruit coupled with a complete lack of discipline around the program. He was a sharp Xs and Os guy though. His one back offense was so innovative that almost every single team in college football runs some form of one back offense now. Any offensive coach worth a **** will recognize him as a precurser to the modern offenses.
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It wasn't a complete inability to recruit, but people need to take a look at Erickson's M.O.

With the ONLY real exception being UM, Erickson was MUCH BETTER at exacting a "turnaround" with another coach's players than he was in building his own program up. Look at his resume before he came to UM. Dennis went from place-to-place, he was at Idaho for 4 years, Wyoming for 1 year, and Washington State for 2 years. At Idaho, they were 3-8 before Erickson, then went 9-4. At Wyoming, they were also 3-8 before Erickson, and he took them to 6-6 before leaving for Washington State. At WSU, they were 3-7-1 pre-Erickson and in Erickson Year 1, but in his second year they went 9-3.

After he was at UM, let's look at this: at Oregon State, he got them to 11-1 (his best record at OSU) in his second year (NOT his recruits), and at Arizona State his best season was his first season, when he went 10-3 (again, NOT his recruits).

So, yeah, Dennis would take another guy's players, and get rapid results, but he never stuck around to build things up with his own guys. So it is somewhat hard to evaluate his long-term impact on recruiting at the time.

I will say this, it seemed like Dennis got some very good recruits at Miami, but he really failed to maintain discipline. I don't think it is an unfair thing to point out that MANY of Dennis' players were the ones who got kicked out of school or got us into trouble (even when Butch was coaching).

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Dennis had some bad losses. Byu, Arizona, the streak ender, etc.... Dude got us 2 rings with some dope teams..... Can't **** on dude. Yes he won with Jimmy's players... But he still won
 
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TheOriginalCane said:
It wasn't a complete inability to recruit, but people need to take a look at Erickson's M.O.

With the ONLY real exception being UM, Erickson was MUCH BETTER at exacting a "turnaround" with another coach's players than he was in building his own program up. Look at his resume before he came to UM. Dennis went from place-to-place, he was at Idaho for 4 years, Wyoming for 1 year, and Washington State for 2 years. At Idaho, they were 3-8 before Erickson, then went 9-4. At Wyoming, they were also 3-8 before Erickson, and he took them to 6-6 before leaving for Washington State. At WSU, they were 3-7-1 pre-Erickson and in Erickson Year 1, but in his second year they went 9-3.

After he was at UM, let's look at this: at Oregon State, he got them to 11-1 (his best record at OSU) in his second year (NOT his recruits), and at Arizona State his best season was his first season, when he went 10-3 (again, NOT his recruits).

So, yeah, Dennis would take another guy's players, and get rapid results, but he never stuck around to build things up with his own guys. So it is somewhat hard to evaluate his long-term impact on recruiting at the time.

I will say this, it seemed like Dennis got some very good recruits at Miami, but he really failed to maintain discipline. I don't think it is an unfair thing to point out that MANY of Dennis' players were the ones who got kicked out of school or got us into trouble (even when Butch was coaching).

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Good points. Although he did take a lot of JUCO kids at Oregon State that led to a quick turn around.

Ironically, his offensive recruiting at Miami was part of his (and the team's) overall downfall. When the guys he recruited took over a majority of the starting positions in 1993, it was the offense that struggled. So much so that he even switched to a more traditional pro set offense with two running backs for a while. With little success.

The defense was able to maintain it's spot among the nation's best. Especially with stalwarts Ray Lewis and Warren Sapp (both Erickson recruits) leading the way. The 1994 team was a couple of plays away from a national title despite Lacking much punch on offense besides running back James Stewart.
 
He was a substitute teacher. He was good when he was following Jimmy's lesson plan, but once he was in charge of the classroom, the program suffered.
 
DTP said:
Erickson's downfall was his inability to recruit coupled with a complete lack of discipline around the program. He was a sharp Xs and Os guy though. His one back offense was so innovative that almost every single team in college football runs some form of one back offense now. Any offensive coach worth a **** will recognize him as a precurser to the modern offenses.
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Well, I don't know about inability to recruit but I was a student at the time and I do remember there was a definite shift in the scope of our recruiting. Whereas Howard and Jimmy knew that if they locked up south Florida they could run circles around everybody with speed, Dennis let some of those hard-earned relationships with local high schools suffer and took local kids for granted. He was a little bit of a star ***** and ignored his own backyard which was what led to Miami becoming great in the first place.

I saw a reference to that Cotton Bowl earlier though and it made me smile. One of the most dominant beat-downs I ever saw. Gifted them 220 yards in penalties and they only managed 3 points. Crowd was so quiet. Sebastian (Jon Routh at the time) pretended to sneak up on the longhorn with a branding iron and about got the life scared out of him when it jumped up ready for action.
 
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caneinorlando said:
His garbage *** recruiting had Frank Costa as a QB that cost us the 94 NC...
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Ah, "Costa U". He sure did. So many divots in the turf from all those deep ball overthrows. I think he may have been even less accurate than Posier.
 
caneinorlando said:
View attachment 68400I was at Greentree alot from 81-83....Took lots of Pics....Kelly with unknown player (can't remember name @Matador might know) in 82
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@
Jack71 said:
Ah, "Costa U". He sure did. So many divots in the turf from all those deep ball overthrows. I think he made have been less accurate than Posier.
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Missed a Wide Open Jonathan Harris twice for TDs that would've realistically Won the game....
 
brock said:
The season is sh*tty so I’m just talking but we hear a lot about the the Jimmy Johnson, schnellenberger and Butch Davis of the worlds in terms of head coaches at Miami but why is a guy like dennis Erickson never brought up in the same echelon as that group when he’s the most accomplished at Miami? I’ve always wondered this.
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Dennis Erickson = Larry Coker

That's why
 
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