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Coaching search update

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The Franchise said:
dy, I'm with you on Butch being more of a certainty in many of the areas you mentioned. I just don't see the "inherent recruiting roadblocks" that you do at UM. I see UM as a recruiting gold mine waiting to be tapped by the next winner.

Butch has a solid 9 win floor. I'm just more of a gambler I guess because watching him 9 games and finish 2nd in the Coastal with a roster full of NFL talent would get me pretty salty pretty quickly.

I'd shoot for a high ceiling guy who will run a modern offense that takes advantage of the HUGE recruiting advantage we have down here--speed guys who might not be all that big.

I wouldn't be sour with a Butch hire because I know he'd energize the city and get everyone riled up for UM football. I just remember all the warts he had including his recent run at UNC where he underachieved given the talent he piled up.
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If I'm being fair -- and that's hard to do when playing devil's advocate on a Butch hire -- you're right. I guess I have been so conditioned by the failures of the three stooges that I sometimes presume we need a proven heavyweight like Butch Davis to pull in elite recruiting classes. Of course, there are other guys with the personality, leadership, and competence to kill it here. And some of those guys are more attuned to the modern game and would be more explosive and effective with the offensive talent down here.

I just don't know if there is anyone out there fitting that description who will be available and interested. The Memphis guy scares the sh*t out of me -- honestly can't tell you why, but I just got a feeling he may fall on his face when he moves up. I think Herman could be the guy. And if he were hired, I would be excited because he does strike me as an upside guy who could do things offensively at UM that Butch did not and would not do. Outside of Herman, however, not sure I would be willing to pass up Butch for a guy who potentially brings that type of upside. I'm very risk averse at this point.
 
Miami04 said:
See I am afraid we just cant take the chance on Herman. Don't get me wrong he is in my top 3 but it really worries me that with 1 year body of work he could turn out to be a corch and the football team as we know it (12 years ago) is over.

I am falling in with the Butch crowd because I feel he is the safest option. Will he win a NC here? Maybe, he can build the team. But I can guarantee he wont leave here in a heap of garbage.

I want the new flashy thing but this isn't replacing Coker, this is replacing the 3rd straight failed coach. Cant have 4.
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All symptoms and signs point to him not being a corch. What's the familiar refrain for those that oppose him? Only one year as the head man.

I think it's pretty telling when that's the central criticism.

His football acumen is never in question and neither is his attitude or approach. In two seasons he's been apart of two outstanding offenses, one of those offenses won the national championship against Wisconsin, Alabama, and Oregon with a true freshman signal caller who had never taken a snap before the big 10 title game. His current QB was playing Wide Receiver as recently as 2014 and they are undefeated with one of the top offenses in the country.

The resume speaks for itself. Herman can coach man. I don't think that much can be called into question at this point.
 
Notsince1985 said:
01Canes said:
There's zero question about Butch's recruiting, evaluation prowess, passion, or reputation. He's obviously a very desirable candidate.

But I really think some people are way too quick to dismiss or completely overlook that the only offense he's fielded in the last 10 years was abysmal, slow paced, behind the times, and conservative despite having NFL talent at UNC. If he plans to hire an innovative OC with a much more dynamic approach than John Shoop, then it won't even be an issue. But it's an area of unknown and a legitimate concern, IMO, considering our advantage of having access to premier skill talent locally.
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Butch's offenses at UNC averaged:

2007: 21.1 ppg
2008: 27.7
2009: 23.8
2010: 25.3

While I'll give you that leaves some to be desired, he didn't have immense talent to work with. Most of the talent he had was on the defensive side of the ball at UNC. He had TJ Yates, he had Greg Little, he had Brandon Tate, he had Hakeem Nicks....that's about all I got.
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UNC had some next level skill talent and, as Chise mentioned, quality OLs in those years. The talent they did have was certainly more than enough to put up much better results than this:

Butch's offenses at UNC in yards per game & points per game

2007: 106th / 99th
2008: 92nd / 43rd
2009: 108th / 83rd
2010: 51st / 74th

And those are the only offenses Butch has fielded in the past decade. When he first took over at UNC in 2007, only four offenses averaged more than 500 yards per game. Now there are three offenses averaging 600+ yards per game and a dozen others averaging 500+. With the abundance of skill talent in our recruiting base and the widespread potency of modern offenses, is it in our best interest to stay behind the times with a traditional, overly conversative/bland approach on that side of the ball?

I completely understand why some have Butch as their top choice. But I think we should also be realistic about his flaws and legitimately wary of what he'd want to do offensively if he's brought back considering his track record.
 
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The Franchise said:
Notsince1985 said:
01Canes said:
There's zero question about Butch's recruiting, evaluation prowess, passion, or reputation. He's obviously a very desirable candidate.

But I really think some people are way too quick to dismiss or completely overlook that the only offense he's fielded in the last 10 years was abysmal, slow paced, behind the times, and conservative despite having NFL talent at UNC. If he plans to hire an innovative OC with a much more dynamic approach than John Shoop, then it won't even be an issue. But it's an area of unknown and a legitimate concern, IMO, considering our advantage of having access to premier skill talent locally.
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Butch's offenses at UNC averaged:

2007: 21.1 ppg
2008: 27.7
2009: 23.8
2010: 25.3

While I'll give you that leaves some to be desired, he didn't have immense talent to work with. Most of the talent he had was on the defensive side of the ball at UNC. He had TJ Yates, he had Greg Little, he had Brandon Tate, he had Hakeem Nicks....that's about all I got.
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He had some NFL OL and TEs on that offense too. He also had a monster in Gio Bernard.
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Butch recruited Gio, but he tore his acl in 2010 and never played for Butch
 
DMoney said:
Consigliere said:
Your suggestion is to pair a first time OC with a defensive minded coach? How does this help us on offense?
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Dorsey is a rising star. Cam Newton is the talk of the NFL and he is playing smart. Offensive coordinator at a big school is the logical next step for him. The fit with Kaaya is obvious.
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I don't know if OC at a major school is the next step entirely though. IIRC Major Applewhite was at Rice before coming back to Texas?
 
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jerzeycane said:
Butch had NFL studs like Hakeem Nicks
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No, Butch had like 4 nfl skill players and some OL. Not a bunch. I'm not saying Butch killed it on offense at UNC, that was part of what I wrote, but he was at UNC. Even Mack Brown, when he was winning 10 and 11 games at Carolina had an average offense.
 
The Franchise said:
dy, I'm with you on Butch being more of a certainty in many of the areas you mentioned. I just don't see the "inherent recruiting roadblocks" that you do at UM. I see UM as a recruiting gold mine waiting to be tapped by the next winner.

Butch has a solid 9 win floor. I'm just more of a gambler I guess because watching him 9 games and finish 2nd in the Coastal with a roster full of NFL talent would get me pretty salty pretty quickly.

I'd shoot for a high ceiling guy who will run a modern offense that takes advantage of the HUGE recruiting advantage we have down here--speed guys who might not be all that big.

I wouldn't be sour with a Butch hire because I know he'd energize the city and get everyone riled up for UM football. I just remember all the warts he had including his recent run at UNC where he underachieved given the talent he piled up.
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You could be right, but even if Butch can't get pass 2nd place he will leave us a NFL team when will start flying the banners. Any guarantee our hot shot offensive genius will do the same when, like most of them, he too comes up short.
 
People keep talking about Butch's conservative offense at Miami. It was, to a degree, but you also have to remember that once he got his players in there (Erickson's last couple of offensive recruiting classes were bad), and once he got over a real NCAA (I refuse to say cloud) mess, the offense put up big numbers, and, basically the same offense, but up huge numbers when Coker was HC. I went back and looked at Erickson's last 3 years (92-94), Butch's years (95-00), and Coker's first 3 years (01-03):

Points Per Game
1992: 30.8
1993: 27.6
1994: 30.4
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1995: 26.7
1996: 30.7
1997: 28.6
1998: 37.3
1999: 33.2
2000: 42.2
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2001: 42.7
2002: 40.5
2003: 27.8

Just for fun, I looked at defense too


Points against Miami
1992: 13.4
1993: 12.8
1994: 11.9
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1995: 18.3
1996: 17.5
1997: 25.9
1998: 24.8
1999: 16.9
2000: 15.8
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2001: 9.8
2002: 19.1
2003: 15.1

Basically, once in place Butch's offenses from 98-00 put up amazing numbers. His defenses were solid in 95-96, sucked when probation killed depth and we were starting all freshman and sophomores. Yes, I know Bill Miller sucked too.
 
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DMoney said:
Good posts by 01 and Chise.

Kaaya mitigates some of my short-term concern with the offense. Butch (and Strong for that matter) did fine with smart QBs at the helm. Beyond two years, it is less certain.
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How good do you project Allison if he does stick?
 
Bring in Sonny Cumbie who is the co-offensive coordinator and QB coach at TCU. Meecham calls the plays so Sonny would get a shot at that and he would install an air raid offense which would kill it here at Miami. He is young at 34 so he has some more years before he gets a HC gig. He also worked under Leach, Tuberville, Kingsburry and Gary Patterson. Look at what he did with Boykin who was a wide receiver going into college. Here are the stats incase you don't want to look them up.

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DMoney said:
WhatTheHell said:
Even more unsettling, the defensive guru is getting shredded. Which Strong would we be getting?
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He had elite defenses at South Carolina, Florida and Louisville. I think Texas is the anomaly, not the other way around. And he would be inheriting a defense with a ton of talent that fits his system.
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Mark my words Dmoney....I know he's your boy but Strong will NEVER win big here. Just because he pushed our **** in during the bowl game means nothing. Would be a ******* terrible hire.
 
DMoney said:
kennesaw_cane said:
DMoney, what are your thoughts on Skrong? It seems to me that he benefited from having Bridgewater bail him out as a coach. I'm not so sure he's good HC material. Seems to be a better DC than HC.
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I've discussed this in other posts, but I think he'd kill it here. He is an elite evaluator of talent (like Butch) who put 14 guys in the pros the last two years at Louisville. Most of those guys were three stars or worse. Recruiting ability may be overrated for a head coach, but the ability to evaluate is just as important as Xs and Os.

He already knows the area and does not need to start fresh in terms of relationships. He built elite defenses at South Carolina, Florida and Louisville, so I believe he can do the same here with our talented roster. He would inherit a Bridgewater-type quarterback in Kaaya. The Iowa State loss is concerning, but Butch had plenty of bad losses here (including a meltdown against East Carolina in Year 5 with a loaded roster).

He is my third choice behind Butch and Herman.
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.....and with that "elite" talent he eeked out games almost weekly in the ******* Big East. How many of you actually watched those talent filled rosters at Louisville? I did and color me unimpressed. Also....Butch's meldowns VS. East Carolina is the reason I don't want him hired either. He isn't that great of a coach and can't win unless he has a massive talent gap advantage (ala Strong). No thanks....give me a good game day coach that can actually outscheme and adjust against equal talent. **** me this is going to end badly.
 
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