Coaching search update

[DMoney]

Good posts by 01 and Chise.

Kaaya mitigates some of my short-term concern with the offense. Butch (and Strong for that matter) did fine with smart QBs at the helm. Beyond two years, it is less certain.

 

[McGahee2TheHouse]

01Canes,

You and I are in the same boat with Butch. I love his floor and the fact that he's without doubt the best in the game at evaluating and building a roster.

I'm hesitant about him though because of his pedestrian offenses and his last staff at UNC. Shoop was a complete disaster not unlike Bill Miller on the defensive side here who he stuck with for 4 horrible years.

How did Butch manage to never sniff the Coastal title at UNC despite loading that roster with more talent than anyone else in the division?

I don't claim to have all the answers. ****, I'm still trying to figure out how to have my *** eaten without looking like a bytch with my legs up in the air. But I'd prefer to take a gamble on a less sure thing like Herman with what I see as a higher ceiling and a faster turn around time. I can see Herman winning right away and being a juggernaut here.

Davis would take time like he always does, and I'm concerned with his philosophical approach on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see his approach to offense as taking the best advantage of the types of players right in his backyard at UM.

Can't argue with any of that.

I can.

Herman is definitely having a big year - his very first year.

HIS VERY FIRST YEAR!

Strong had TWO good years. And right now, he sucks.

You guys run to gold plated crap, but can't seem to figure out that 22K solid gold is the ****.

Herman is hardly gold plated crap. Come on man.

I don't think anyone is saying Butch isn't a top candidate. But he isn't perfect. Nor is any candidate, including Herman as you said.

 

[Miami04]

See I am afraid we just cant take the chance on Herman. Don't get me wrong he is in my top 3 but it really worries me that with 1 year body of work he could turn out to be a corch and the football team as we know it (12 years ago) is over.

I am falling in with the Butch crowd because I feel he is the safest option. Will he win a NC here? Maybe, he can build the team. But I can guarantee he wont leave here in a heap of garbage.

I want the new flashy thing but this isn't replacing Coker, this is replacing the 3rd straight failed coach. Cant have 4.

 

[UMFarArcher]

01Canes,

You and I are in the same boat with Butch. I love his floor and the fact that he's without doubt the best in the game at evaluating and building a roster.

I'm hesitant about him though because of his pedestrian offenses and his last staff at UNC. Shoop was a complete disaster not unlike Bill Miller on the defensive side here who he stuck with for 4 horrible years.

How did Butch manage to never sniff the Coastal title at UNC despite loading that roster with more talent than anyone else in the division?

I don't claim to have all the answers. ****, I'm still trying to figure out how to have my *** eaten without looking like a bytch with my legs up in the air. But I'd prefer to take a gamble on a less sure thing like Herman with what I see as a higher ceiling and a faster turn around time. I can see Herman winning right away and being a juggernaut here.

Davis would take time like he always does, and I'm concerned with his philosophical approach on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see his approach to offense as taking the best advantage of the types of players right in his backyard at UM.

Can't argue with any of that.

I can.

Herman is definitely having a big year - his very first year.

HIS VERY FIRST YEAR!

Strong had TWO good years. And right now, he sucks.

You guys run to gold plated crap, but can't seem to figure out that 22K solid gold is the ****.

Herman is hardly gold plated crap. Come on man.

I don't think anyone is saying Butch isn't a top candidate. But he isn't perfect. Nor is any candidate, including Herman as you said.

Gold plating is very thin. It's gold alright, but very, very thin.

Herman's body of work is brilliant - he shines - but his body of work is very, very thin.

What part about that are you having difficulty with?

 

[Hurracanes]

01Canes,

You and I are in the same boat with Butch. I love his floor and the fact that he's without doubt the best in the game at evaluating and building a roster.

I'm hesitant about him though because of his pedestrian offenses and his last staff at UNC. Shoop was a complete disaster not unlike Bill Miller on the defensive side here who he stuck with for 4 horrible years.

How did Butch manage to never sniff the Coastal title at UNC despite loading that roster with more talent than anyone else in the division?

I don't claim to have all the answers. ****, I'm still trying to figure out how to have my *** eaten without looking like a bytch with my legs up in the air. But I'd prefer to take a gamble on a less sure thing like Herman with what I see as a higher ceiling and a faster turn around time. I can see Herman winning right away and being a juggernaut here.

Davis would take time like he always does, and I'm concerned with his philosophical approach on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see his approach to offense as taking the best advantage of the types of players right in his backyard at UM.

Valid points. However, what I love about what Butch brings to the table is his ability to improve our Defense and Special Teams drastically. His ability to recruit DT's and elite South Florida athletes has me drooling. We haven't seen that since he left. The common denominator in all of our championships is a top 10 Defense. We do not know if Herman can do this either.

Legit question because I don't know the answer: How many top 10 defenses did Butch field as a HC? I don't remember his defenses being that great here aside from maybe his final season.

I'm less concerned with stockpiling talent than I am with winning football games. No question Butch will stockpile talent. I think there's valid concern about his ability to get milk the most wins out of all the talent he accumulates.

That is correct, the 2000 team was his best Defense. I believe he wasted too many years with Bill Miller. It cost us many games in 1997 and 1998 in spite of the scholarship sanctions. It infuriates me when I see a conservative Miami Defense. In my head, it is the equivalent of asking Oregon to run a slow Big Ten Offense. A lot of people give Dennis Erickson a lot of **** but he made our Defense nasty with his aggressive style. Schiano was very similar too. This is what frustrated me about Randy, Golden and D'Onofrio. I think Butch learned his lesson.

Butch's philosophy on Offense was the running game setting up the pass. Personally, I love this concept if we utilize our speed correctly (misdirections plays, reads, etc.) People don't realize this, however, Oregon, OSU, Bama, etc., are very successful in running the ball and setting up the big play. I do hope Butch would speed up the Offense. I can't name you many opponents that can keep with a traditional Miami speed team. Unfortunately, Golden made us slower.

 

[Al Foil]

Jeremy Foley learned from his Muschamp decision and limited his search to coaches with an innovative offensive background. He did that so he didn't end up with the following combinations....

Golden/Coley
Strong/Watson
Muschamp/Pease
Shannon/Nix

The most important coaching position in college football is offensive coordinator. If you miss on that, you have no chance.

 

[Al Foil]

Butch scares me...

Are we gonna a get a Larry Coker or John Shoop to run the offense?

Butch could never overcome their terrible play calling with NFL talent.

The talent he amassed at UNC was sick and he could only win 8.

 

[DHucks]

I don't claim to have all the answers. ****, I'm still trying to figure out how to have my *** eaten without looking like a bytch with my legs up in the air.

:sanford:

h_gif_kid:

:6e482c_o:

 

[The Franchise]

Good posts by 01 and Chise.

Kaaya mitigates some of my short-term concern with the offense. Butch (and Strong for that matter) did fine with smart QBs at the helm. Beyond two years, it is less certain.

Not so sure how you quantify the intelligence of the QBs Butch and ******* had to work with during their careers. TJ Yates seemed pretty bright, and Butch's offense stunk at UNC. I don't know how smart Heard is at UT. No real idea how smart Clement and Covington and Kelly were.

 

[dycane]

01Canes,

You and I are in the same boat with Butch. I love his floor and the fact that he's without doubt the best in the game at evaluating and building a roster.

I'm hesitant about him though because of his pedestrian offenses and his last staff at UNC. Shoop was a complete disaster not unlike Bill Miller on the defensive side here who he stuck with for 4 horrible years.

How did Butch manage to never sniff the Coastal title at UNC despite loading that roster with more talent than anyone else in the division?

I don't claim to have all the answers. ****, I'm still trying to figure out how to have my *** eaten without looking like a bytch with my legs up in the air. But I'd prefer to take a gamble on a less sure thing like Herman with what I see as a higher ceiling and a faster turn around time. I can see Herman winning right away and being a juggernaut here.

Davis would take time like he always does, and I'm concerned with his philosophical approach on the offensive side of the ball. I don't see his approach to offense as taking the best advantage of the types of players right in his backyard at UM.

Can't argue with any of that.

I can.

Herman is definitely having a big year - his very first year.

HIS VERY FIRST YEAR!

Strong had TWO good years. And right now, he sucks.

You guys run to gold plated crap, but can't seem to figure out that 22K solid gold is the ****.

Butch didn't have a single big year at his last stop. And he only had 1 big year at UM out of 6. So, in 10 years of college coaching, he had 1 big year.

Valid point. To be fair, Butch built two monsters at UM and UNC, both of which were primed to produce big years for Butch until he bolted for the Browns and the NCAA whacked off UNC's ******. But, there is no disputing that his offenses were on par conservative, especially given the elite skill position talent he amassed at both schools. I think, however, that when considered in context, he -- right now -- is a cut above the other candidates when you consider risk/reward and what our priorities should be.

Despite the abortions we've had running the ship into the ground over the last decade, we've managed to produce some very good players. But we have not produced elite players. And that won't cut it. We need someone who can overcome the inherent recruiting roadblocks here and pull in a few elite players every year, especially on defense. Improving overall and top line talent is at the top of the list for me and I think we can all agree that Butch is the safest bet in that department.

Additionally, we must improve the quality of the staff across the board. And that's not a simple task given the state of the program and the purported financial constraints. I think Butch is also the safest bet to pull that off. On a related note -- no pun intended -- we need to get our blocking and tackling straight. This program needs to be stripped to its core and rebuilt. We need someone who will create a strong organizational foundation and shore up the fundamentals of the program's operations, which will ensure that our floor is much higher than what our ceiling has been recently. I am confident Butch will create that type of organizational strength and efficiency and plug in a professional coaching and support staff.

There are legitimate concerns about his age, offensive philosophy, and game day decision making. But UM cannot afford to f*ck this up. So, I'll take the safest bet and go with the guy who is most likely to clean up operations, excite the fanbase, assemble a competent staff, and load up on elite talent.

 

[Notsince1985]

There's zero question about Butch's recruiting, evaluation prowess, passion, or reputation. He's obviously a very desirable candidate.

But I really think some people are way too quick to dismiss or completely overlook that the only offense he's fielded in the last 10 years was abysmal, slow paced, behind the times, and conservative despite having NFL talent at UNC. If he plans to hire an innovative OC with a much more dynamic approach than John Shoop, then it won't even be an issue. But it's an area of unknown and a legitimate concern, IMO, considering our advantage of having access to premier skill talent locally.

Butch's offenses at UNC averaged:

2007: 21.1 ppg
2008: 27.7
2009: 23.8
2010: 25.3

While I'll give you that leaves some to be desired, he didn't have immense talent to work with. Most of the talent he had was on the defensive side of the ball at UNC. He had TJ Yates, he had Greg Little, he had Brandon Tate, he had Hakeem Nicks....that's about all I got.

 

[The Franchise]

dy, I'm with you on Butch being more of a certainty in many of the areas you mentioned. I just don't see the "inherent recruiting roadblocks" that you do at UM. I see UM as a recruiting gold mine waiting to be tapped by the next winner.

Butch has a solid 9 win floor. I'm just more of a gambler I guess because watching him 9 games and finish 2nd in the Coastal with a roster full of NFL talent would get me pretty salty pretty quickly.

I'd shoot for a high ceiling guy who will run a modern offense that takes advantage of the HUGE recruiting advantage we have down here--speed guys who might not be all that big.

I wouldn't be sour with a Butch hire because I know he'd energize the city and get everyone riled up for UM football. I just remember all the warts he had including his recent run at UNC where he underachieved given the talent he piled up.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Jeremy Foley learned from his Muschamp decision and limited his search to coaches with an innovative offensive background. He did that so he didn't end up with the following combinations....

Golden/Coley
Strong/Watson
Muschamp/Pease
Shannon/Nix

The most important coaching position in college football is offensive coordinator. If you miss on that, you have no chance.

If you don't have a great defense - one that can stop the spread, stop major running teams, and stop pro-style power/throw teams, you end up like the Pirate. How many times have we seen teams like Oregon or others with high power offenses run up lots of yards and lots of points, and then when they meet a solid team with a solid defense, they get their asses beat.

Butch isn't your guy - we get it.

But Butch, just as I said several times over the past year - has been out observing different teams, observing different offenses and defenses, watching practices, watching their games, talking with Head Coaches about their styles of play, talking to coordinators, talking to position coaches - and I'd venture to say that Butch Davis actually has his finger on more of what's going on in college football than any current HC who is busy running HIS team, and evaluating HIS opponents.

He only won 8 his last season at UNC as he lost a bunch of starters due to UNC.

This has been pointed out many times, but you elect to ignore that. Convenient.

 

[DMoney]

Good posts by 01 and Chise.

Kaaya mitigates some of my short-term concern with the offense. Butch (and Strong for that matter) did fine with smart QBs at the helm. Beyond two years, it is less certain.

Not so sure how you quantify the intelligence of the QBs Butch and ******* had to work with during their careers. TJ Yates seemed pretty bright, and Butch's offense stunk at UNC. I don't know how smart Heard is at UT. No real idea how smart Clement and Covington and Kelly were.

Fair enough. Then replace "smart QB" with "really good QB."

 

[The Franchise]

There's zero question about Butch's recruiting, evaluation prowess, passion, or reputation. He's obviously a very desirable candidate.

But I really think some people are way too quick to dismiss or completely overlook that the only offense he's fielded in the last 10 years was abysmal, slow paced, behind the times, and conservative despite having NFL talent at UNC. If he plans to hire an innovative OC with a much more dynamic approach than John Shoop, then it won't even be an issue. But it's an area of unknown and a legitimate concern, IMO, considering our advantage of having access to premier skill talent locally.

Butch's offenses at UNC averaged:

2007: 21.1 ppg
2008: 27.7
2009: 23.8
2010: 25.3

While I'll give you that leaves some to be desired, he didn't have immense talent to work with. Most of the talent he had was on the defensive side of the ball at UNC. He had TJ Yates, he had Greg Little, he had Brandon Tate, he had Hakeem Nicks....that's about all I got.

He had some NFL OL and TEs on that offense too. He also had a monster in Gio Bernard.

 

[Cribby]

dy, I'm with you on Butch being more of a certainty in many of the areas you mentioned. I just don't see the "inherent recruiting roadblocks" that you do at UM. I see UM as a recruiting gold mine waiting to be tapped by the next winner.

Butch has a solid 9 win floor. I'm just more of a gambler I guess because watching him 9 games and finish 2nd in the Coastal with a roster full of NFL talent would get me pretty salty pretty quickly.

I'd shoot for a high ceiling guy who will run a modern offense that takes advantage of the HUGE recruiting advantage we have down here--speed guys who might not be all that big.

I wouldn't be sour with a Butch hire because I know he'd energize the city and get everyone riled up for UM football. I just remember all the warts he had including his recent run at UNC where he underachieved given the talent he piled up.

My feelings exactly. Not the biggest Butch guy but I wouldn't be ****ed if they hired him.

I'd just prefer a few other guys get a call first

 

[DMoney]

I asked around, and apparently Butch is telling people he would "bring in Dorsey."

I assume he meant for offensive coordinator.

 

[CanesFam17]

I asked around, and apparently Butch is telling people he would "bring in Dorsey."

I assume he meant for offensive coordinator.

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[crossover22[]_[]]

Give me butch, herman, or strong and lets get back to winning.

 

[The Franchise]

Jeremy Foley learned from his Muschamp decision and limited his search to coaches with an innovative offensive background. He did that so he didn't end up with the following combinations....

Golden/Coley
Strong/Watson
Muschamp/Pease
Shannon/Nix

The most important coaching position in college football is offensive coordinator. If you miss on that, you have no chance.

If you don't have a great defense - one that can stop the spread, stop major running teams, and stop pro-style power/throw teams, you end up like the Pirate. How many times have we seen teams like Oregon or others with high power offenses run up lots of yards and lots of points, and then when they meet a solid team with a solid defense, they get their asses beat.

Butch isn't your guy - we get it.

But Butch, just as I said several times over the past year - has been out observing different teams, observing different offenses and defenses, watching practices, watching their games, talking with Head Coaches about their styles of play, talking to coordinators, talking to position coaches - and I'd venture to say that Butch Davis actually has his finger on more of what's going on in college football than any current HC who is busy running HIS team, and evaluating HIS opponents.

He only won 8 his last season at UNC as he lost a bunch of starters due to UNC.

This has been pointed out many times, but you elect to ignore that. Convenient.

I keep hearing guys talking about Butch's "great defenses". Problem is that his defenses weren't all that great at UNC.

2007--43rd
2008--32nd
2009--13th
2010--45th

Those are OK, but they aren't eye-popping.