Character

[Tit-e-skr]

Would have been hilarious to see the fans reaction if before the season we found out:

1. We told Jarren to kick rocks
2. Told Jeff Thomas to kick rocks
3. Told Hill to kick rocks
4. Told Martell to kick rocks

This place would have been suicidal

Many of us were suicidal the day Diaz was given the job.

 

[Cribby]

[

So Zook had the players, and they loved him. Why couldn't he win with those players and Urb won a NC with them? Urb isn't some sort of masterful X and O guy. I don't think he was ever even a coordinator. He was a leader of men. He took the same guys that Zook couldn't lead and who played like pvssies and turned them into killers (literally). He established the culture. The players didn't.

I’ve already said Zook couldn’t coach and was only an elite recruiter , I’m pretty sure I’ve actually said that multiple times in this thread.

That team was loaded with talent ,urban just brings top shelf assistants and a winning culture. That’s what all great coaches do. But culture is worthless with a bunch of two stars.

 

[Coach Macho]

Don’t know how many here actually have experience leading teams, or hiring and firing, but good leadership only takes you so far.

Good leadership takes you to maybe 9 wins last year - maybe. Leadership has a definite impact, you can’t win big without it, but you can only take a team full of tomato cans so far.

In the end, it’s about finding the right people and leading those people...while getting rid of the ones that aren’t winners.

Wouldn't have mattered who coached JT, first he would have never sniffed a team coached by some of the top coaches being mentioned here, and had he lucked into one of those teams, or just even a better coach/leader, he likely would have been only marginally better, if at all.

The best leaders that I personally know, spend an inordinate amount of time and care in the selection process. The worst, don’t. That’s not the only trait that makes good leaders, but the best ones know they need to start with the right raw material.

Agree... but the best leaders have the ability to take ****heads under their wing and get the best out of them. Not all kids can be saved, but during my 13 years I've seen plenty of bad apples get mind fvcked into buying in. Although college is different in the sense that you get to CHOOSE who's on your team via recruiting.
And I agree with you, that's a large portion of the battle.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

So Zook had the players, and they loved him. Why couldn't he win with those players and Urb won a NC with them? Urb isn't some sort of masterful X and O guy. I don't think he was ever even a coordinator. He was a leader of men. He took the same guys that Zook couldn't lead and who played like pvssies and turned them into killers (literally). He established the culture. The players didn't.

Exactly.

UCF went from0-12 to 6-7, 12-0 under Frost with the same kids O’Leary couldn’t win with.
Urban Meyer went 12-0 at OSU with Luke Fickell’s 6-7 kids after Tressel resigned. Why’d they slip after Tressel and why’d they rise with Urban? Leadership.

 

[Coach Macho]

I feel like this class that we just signed has the ability to change the culture around this program.

I can tell you for sure that Restrepo and Knighton are not going to be playing any games. They ain't with the bullsh!t and will snap on a teammate for not working hard. I'm sure Elijah ain't with the ****s either, coming from a well-coached, tough, winning program. Don Chaney is a coach's son. With King coming in at QB it will also elevate us. The acquisitions Diaz made this year through transfers, recruiting and staff changes may save his freakin' career.

 

[jsy]

Encouraging note is that our current FR class, at this point, seems to be full of high character guys with HIGH leadership ceilings: Restrepo, Chantz, Elijah Roberts, TAC, Flagg, Jalen, Chaney, Redding, TVD. Not sure, from a character standpoint, we had a questionable take last year.

Perhaps that's evidence that we have learned our lesson and have the vision and now some action steps to move past the high talent/low character trap that has plagued us.

don’t we say every year before the new class gets here that they seem to be high character and have that dog in them

classes come and go , the one responsible for building the culture that leads to improved character is the coaches, manny has a lot to prove

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Agree... but the best leaders have the ability to take ****heads under their wing and get the best out of them. Not all kids can be saved, but during my 13 years I've seen plenty of bad apples get mind fvcked into buying in. Although college is different in the sense that you get to CHOOSE who's on your team via recruiting.
And I agree with you, that's a large portion of the battle.

This is true. In any organization, you can have tolerance for a very limited number of shltheads, as long as they produce. But in the end, if you spend too much time with them, it’s counterproductive.

Also you’re right with college, the idea is you get to pick who you want. High school is a different animal, very few high schools are good at recruiting, and even the ones that are, it’s only a few players, but you know who those are. Like the one that starts with an A

 

[nycane]

I feel like this class that we just signed has the ability to change the culture around this program.

I can tell you for sure that Restrepo and Knighton are not going to be playing any games. They ain't with the bullsh!t and will snap on a teammate for not working hard. I'm sure Elijah ain't with the ****s either, coming from a well-coached, tough, winning program. Don Chaney is a coach's son. With King coming in at QB it will also elevate us. The acquisitions Diaz made this year through transfers, recruiting and staff changes may save his freakin' career.

Funny you say that. Someone close to the program told me “man this 2020 class is gonna be good. They are all business. They are much better than the 2018 class” Redding was another guy he mentioned. He’s also said he thinks huff brooks and Joyner can eventually be better than pick Shaq and finely/Mcloud

 

[nycane]

don’t we say every year before the new class gets here that they seem to be high character and have that dog in them

classes come and go , the one responsible for building the culture that leads to improved character is the coaches, manny has a lot to prove

Yeah but I also think I see level of explosiveness in kids like rooster Chaney dunson tae and a few others that has been missing from the program.

 

[Saviorcane]

If character is a huge issue with the NFL why did Rapeis Winston go #1?

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

If character is a huge issue with the NFL why did Rapeis Winston go #1?

Winston doesn’t necessarily have character outside the hash marks, but he had football character in college.

You can have players that have one, or the other, or both or neither.

That’s four possibilities, you can only win with two of them. That is, players that have character on the football field and practice, but not much character outside of it. Or players that have character both on the football field, and outside in real life.

What you can’t win with, is players that have no football character.

As far as I know, JT4 had enough character outside of football to not get in trouble. At least not when he was at Miami. But his football character was not there. Always pouting and looking to quit.

 

[nycane]

Winston doesn’t necessarily have character outside the hash marks, but he had football character in college.

You can have players that have one, or the other, or both or neither.

That’s four possibilities, you can only win with two of them. That is, players that have character on the football field and practice, but not much character outside of it. Or players that have character both on the football field, and outside in real life.

What you can’t win with, is players that have no football character.

As far as I know, JT4 had enough character outside of football to not get in trouble. At least not when he was at Miami. But his football character was not there. Always pouting and looking to quit.

Right. Teams looked at garvin and viewed this as a contract year and saw he showed no heart

 

[Rellyrell]

Don’t know how many here actually have experience leading teams, or hiring and firing, but good leadership only takes you so far.

Good leadership takes you to maybe 9 wins last year - maybe. Leadership has a definite impact, you can’t win big without it, but you can only take a team full of tomato cans so far.

In the end, it’s about finding the right people and leading those people...while getting rid of the ones that aren’t winners.

Wouldn't have mattered who coached JT, first he would have never sniffed a team coached by some of the top coaches being mentioned here, and had he lucked into one of those teams, or just even a better coach/leader, he likely would have been only marginally better, if at all.

The best leaders that I personally know, spend an inordinate amount of time and care in the selection process. The worst, don’t. That’s not the only trait that makes good leaders, but the best ones know they need to start with the right raw material.

See this guy gets it.

BUT

This is why Manny's leadership needs to come in to question: As I've stated many times, Manny has BEEN here. He may be a 1st yr coach, but he's been our DC. He knows intimately the going-ons in the locker room. So if he knew JT4 was a problem, why beg him back? If he knew JW15 was a puss, why convince him not to transfer? See, this all sends a mix signal to our fan base. A leader would've never allowed these "cancers" to infiltrate the locker room, AGAIN, when he was aware of their character issues. So it may very well be that JT would've been a headache anywhere he went, and he's uncoachable, but the fact that Manny was already familiar w/ this and invited him back shows a lack of leadership.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

I feel like this class that we just signed has the ability to change the culture around this program.

LOL, and how many years in a row have we said that...

Look, if every year you have to count on true freshmen to change the culture, you don't have a culture.

 

[KrazyCane]

Production and talent matters more than anything. Florida won a national championship and the entire team except for Tebow pretty much had character issues. And those players all were drafted to the NFL.

Trevon Hills production each season has been about average at best on top of the fact that he has below average athleticism = not good enough to get drafted.

Jeff Thomas has the talent but playing In the worst offense in cfb history imo was 99% of the reason he didn’t get drafted. His character concerns such as lack of work ethic would’ve kept him out of the first couple rounds but he would’ve definitely gotten drafted playing for Alabama or LSU.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

See this guy gets it.

BUT

This is why Manny's leadership needs to come in to question: As I've stated many times, Manny has BEEN here. He may be a 1st yr coach, but he's been our DC. He knows intimately the going-ons in the locker room. So if he knew JT4 was a problem, why beg him back? If he knew JW15 was a puss, why convince him not to transfer? See, this all sends a mix signal to our fan base. A leader would've never allowed these "cancers" to infiltrate the locker room, when he was aware of their character issues. So it may very well be that JT would've been a headache anywhere he went, and he's uncoachable, but the fact that Manny was already familiar w/ this and invited him back shows a lack of leadership.

That’s just it. I question his leadership.

My fear is that he is one of those “likes to be popular with the fellas“ types.

In my experience, not in sports, but in the business world, these types of leaders generally fail. Unless they fall into a situation with where they end up leading a bunch of already proven winners and performers, who just barely tolerate their poor leadership, they end up imploding, no one ends up respecting them, and they fail.

 

[Rellyrell]

That’s just it. I question his leadership.

My fear is that he is one of those “likes to be popular with the fellas“ types.

In my experience, not in sports, but in the business world, these types of leaders generally fail. Unless they fall into a situation with where they end up leading a bunch of already proven winners and performers, who just barely tolerate their poor leadership, they end up imploding, no one ends up respecting them, and they fail.

Bingo

 

[The Franchise]

I feel like this class that we just signed has the ability to change the culture around this program.

I can tell you for sure that Restrepo and Knighton are not going to be playing any games. They ain't with the bullsh!t and will snap on a teammate for not working hard. I'm sure Elijah ain't with the ****s either, coming from a well-coached, tough, winning program. Don Chaney is a coach's son. With King coming in at QB it will also elevate us. The acquisitions Diaz made this year through transfers, recruiting and staff changes may save his freakin' career.

We've signed good kids like that every year from winning programs with dads who coached. Once they get here, they get swallowed up by the guys who don't care. A few good kids alone won't change this culture as long as the HC isn't a leader. That's been proven here over the last 15+ years.

It all starts at the top. The HC can use those good kids as his top soldiers to set the tone and help get buy in.

 

[troycbullock]

See this guy gets it.

BUT

This is why Manny's leadership needs to come in to question: As I've stated many times, Manny has BEEN here. He may be a 1st yr coach, but he's been our DC. He knows intimately the going-ons in the locker room. So if he knew JT4 was a problem, why beg him back? If he knew JW15 was a puss, why convince him not to transfer? See, this all sends a mix signal to our fan base. A leader would've never allowed these "cancers" to infiltrate the locker room, AGAIN, when he was aware of their character issues. So it may very well be that JT would've been a headache anywhere he went, and he's uncoachable, but the fact that Manny was already familiar w/ this and invited him back shows a lack of leadership.

There were a good amount of our fan base that were ecstatic to see JT4. Most blamed Richt and the offense for his troubles. Let’s not act like Manny bringing JT4 was going against the fan base.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

A few good kids alone won't change this culture as long as the HC isn't a leader.

Yup.