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'23 Defensive pressure off the Edge and more

Kelly and LT are the guys that need to take the next step to Elite or close to. Meaning LT causing constant havoc and 5ish sacks and Kelly in the 8+ sack range

Mesidor and Deen are the vets we can count on to provide solid production

Bain sounds like he can come in and provide some instant production as well
 
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supacane said:
U can disagree as much as u want, i saw DJ Ivey play here for many years and Tyrique for 2. They never displayed any consistently ability to defend outside of the field and deep balls. I prefer the guys we have now. Those two that left were gonna test well but they were not good fundamental players. And like i said its ok to disagree. We will see after the season and we can compare our statements.
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Yet the DC's never adjusted to support the skills of both which would put them at the line and have deep support from a safety... well Steele tried and a good number of the deep passes given up were as much on safety play as CB. We will know all we need to know in around 1 month. Do Ivey and TS make the 53 or not. Beyond that, we could come back to this in 3-4 years to see if any of the 10 CBs on the roster make the NFL (should be likely).
 
90scane said:
Yet the DC's never adjusted to support the skills of both which would put them at the line and have deep support from a safety... well Steele tried and a good number of the deep passes given up were as much on safety play as CB. We will know all we need to know in around 1 month. Do Ivey and TS make the 53 or not. Beyond that, we could come back to this in 3-4 years to see if any of the 10 CBs on the roster make the NFL (should be likely).
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It doesnt matter if they make the 53 or not. They are more likely to get better coaching in the NFL, maybe they get more help over the top from the safety, whatever. That doesnt mean they are gonna be some good 1v1 defender defending the outside and the deep ball. Tyrique left UGA, in part because they looked at him and said Nickel.

If u have CBs on the outside where u dont have to worry about safety help all the time, u gucci. U pointing that it was alot of the safeties, proves my point. They were not good at defending the outside and deep ball.
 
the amount of posts mentioning Bain and Cyrus Moss is really concerning

Lake & Gaby said on one of their podcasts recently that Moss still looks two years away physically. if they're right then he may not see the field in any real games this year. maybe he sees a few snaps per game in pure pass rush situations against some of the lesser opponents on our schedule towards the end of the year but even that might be optimistic.

Bain seems like a great prospect -- true freshmen edge rushers usually do not produce much. the consensus best P5 freshman edge rusher last year, Gabe Jacas from Illinois, had four sacks and five TFLs. go back thru the top 10 edge rushers from the last 4-5 recruiting classes and see how many guys you remember having big freshmen years. hopefully Bain can contribute but the people posting in here about him getting 7-9 sacks are asking a lot. there's maybe one P5 freshman DL per year, if that, who gets there.

what I'm taking away from this thread is that Guidry better be able to manufacture pressure on third down because our only real pure pass rushers are sophomores & freshmen. to me a far more realistic question than what can we get out of Bain is whether Jason Taylor can get anything more out of Harvey, Chantz and Lichtenstein. I just think, realistically speaking, those guys are going to be in the rotation against teams like TAMU, UNC, Clemson. you can't be running 3+ underclassmen DL out there against those teams. I would not expect to see Moss out there in those games, based on what Lake/Gaby said, and we don't know what Bain is capable of yet physically.

the positive note is that it seems like we might be decent to good at generating pressure on early and neutral downs when our DTs can penetrate and/or push the pocket. we also should be able to get our best 4 guys out there in those situations even if it leaves us light on pure pass rush.
 
supacane said:
It doesnt matter if they make the 53 or not. They are more likely to get better coaching in the NFL, maybe they get more help over the top from the safety, whatever.
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Thanks for making my point.

Making the 53 does matter. You aren't a bad player if you make an NFL team even if you have limitations that the team has to address.
 
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90scane said:
Thanks for making my point.

Making the 53 does matter. You aren't a bad player if you make an NFL team even if you have limitations that the team has to address.
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U remember those CBs in the early 2000s who played in those tampa 2 defense Tony Dungy and Lovie Smith etc used to run. They would just squat on routes and get a bunch of picks and make the pro bowl. Then they got to another scheme that use alot of single high and 3 deep and look like bums. They werent bad players either.
 
90scane said:
Let's see if TS and Ivey look like bums when given 2 deep help.
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Whether it was their fault or our former corches' fault or their supporting cast of teammates' fault, they got beat way too often. So even if they become Pro Bowlers like Sam Shields, we never really benefited from whatever talent they do have. ... I'll take Guidry + the room he has this season over last year's CB room.
 
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DTP said:
In hindsight, I probably shouldn’t have expected much with Kevin Steele last year. He runs a very vanilla scheme with little in terms of adjustments or alterations. He wants to come after you with four jumbo linemen and he won’t get too creative with fronts or sub packages. It’s a style that works great with elite talent but leaves a lot lacking when you don’t have a defense full of first rounders. (See: Shannon, Randy. We were actually not bad at generating pressure last year but we were so predictable that you pretty much were counting on our guys to win their one on one battles every down in order to have success. Essentially the scheme did nothing to help the players. It was just “beat your man, win your battle” and if that didn’t happen, they got gouged.

Lance Guidry is a much better candidate for the DC position here. We need someone who can get creative and actually scheme stops instead of just relying on out talenting everyone. His whole MO is not allowing the offense to get an easy pre snap read. So much of today’s offenses, especially passing games, is based off pre-snap reads. You see a defense do (A) and you do (B). But Guidry shows (A) then switches to (B) and then and has an option for (C). If you can force a QB to come off his pre-snap read, you’ve won half the battle.
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I think that's what happened when WVU lit them up for 70. He never adjusted to their gameplan. I'll go back and watch
 
supacane said:
U can disagree as much as u want, i saw DJ Ivey play here for many years and Tyrique for 2. They never displayed any consistently ability to defend outside of the field and deep balls. I prefer the guys we have now. Those two that left were gonna test well but they were not good fundamental players. And like i said its ok to disagree. We will see after the season and we can compare our statements.
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Tyriq was arguably our best player on defense two years ago
 
Coach Macho said:
Just clarifying this now before fans lose their 💩 when they see it...

Guidry runs Odd Front packages where Nyjalik Kelly will be dropping into coverage.
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Hey Coach Macho, he says he runs a 4-2-5 but every time I hear him he talks about odd fronts, 3-4, and he talked about a bear front the other day. Is he multiple and just uses 4-2-5 as a base? I know I'm old and I hadn't coached defense in forever but I knew 4-2-5 as a 1 and a 3 or two 3s. I know you gotta have a lot of tools to combat different offenses. What's your thoughts? I'll hang up and listen
 
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I would add Jason Taylor coaching up the DE’s. Better coaching, better play.
 
Gocanes1990 said:
Hearing good things about Horton
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I wish some of these kids were just a little bit older....like I wish you could take a Year 2 Horton, a Year 2 Bain, and a Year 2 Wayne and add them to this roster, but still, I think the DL can be really good this year. Are there a lot of teams out there who have a better rotation of:

Kelly -- Top 90 overall player poised for a Year 2 breakout
Mesidor -- Proven baller in Year 4
Bain -- Top 65 overall player, admittedly a hybrid edge/interior player but one of the most productive players in Dade history
Harvey -- Top 200 overall player in Year 5. Not a Day 1/2 pick but IMO is an NFL player.
Wayne -- Top 80 overall player
Acheampong -- Top 160 overall player
Williams -- Decent rotational player with a Year 4 body (pause)
Moss -- Still too light but was our highest ranked 2022 recruit. We saying it's impossible for this kid to play on passing downs late in games vs tired tackles and use that bend/speed to get pressure?

LT56 -- Money year from a possible Top half of Round 1 talent
Deen -- Very productive multi-year starter in a much more physical league than the one he's playing in now
JHH -- 4th year player who has been decent at worst
Horton -- Drawing RAVE reviews from literally every person who has seen him
Moten -- 325lb space eater
Lichtenstein -- Can he give you 10-15 plays at max effort a game and be productive? He's 31 years old.
Gore -- fanbase has written him off, but is the league he played in (and played VERY well, I might add) really that much worse than this one? Meh.

Do I wish we had just 1 more really high ceiling interior kid? Yes, I do. But that is a LOT of either really highly recruited kids and/or proven not JAGs. Jason Taylor is coaching a lot of these kids, that absolutely helps. Joe has gotten **** for his recruiting, but I don't think anyone will say he's a poor DL coach.

We know for a fact the LB room is going to be better. That's literally indisputable. We know for a fact the Safeties will be at least as good, but likely much better with another year under Kam's belt and a healthy Williams. Corner is the one we all have our eyes on, but Richard looks to be a hit. Brown looks to be a hit. Davis helps the group. Couch is a 5th year senior. Porter is a 4th year player and I didn't love what I saw last year here but he was good at his former stop. The freshmen are very talented and highly recruited.

People I trust are REALLY high on Guidry. There is a lot of clay here to mold. If the offense holds up its end of the bargain and helps these dudes out, I see no reason this won't be a very much improved defense.
 
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nvlahos said:
Kelly and LT are the guys that need to take the next step to Elite or close to. Meaning LT causing constant havoc and 5ish sacks and Kelly in the 8+ sack range

Mesidor and Deen are the vets we can count on to provide solid production

Bain sounds like he can come in and provide some instant production as well
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Lot of people sleep on Kelly
 
Gocanes1990 said:
Hearing good things about Horton
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I'm basically never going to count on a true Frosh DT, but if he can give us 10 snaps a game the last 4-5 games of '23, it'd do two things:

- help the inevitable worn down interior and any potential injuries
- give us a little hint of just how badly we need to hit the Portal this upcoming offseason
 
LuCane said:
I'm basically never going to count on a true Frosh DT, but if he can give us 10 snaps a game the last 4-5 games of '23, it'd do two things:

- help the inevitable worn down interior and any potential injuries
- give us a little hint of just how badly we need to hit the Portal this upcoming offseason
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I believe he will play. Likely the snap count you alluded to. Def don’t want to rely on TF DL…
 
DTP said:
I consider his defense to be the more thought out version of Manny Diaz's defense. Where pressure is prioritized but guardrails are in place incase the pressure doesn't get home.
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Manny had guardrails. It was a very soft zone. That why when the QB would beat the pressure there where usually guys wide wide open.

Guidry tends to play his CBs on an island as he plays a good amount of man to man. He will mix in different coverages though. Guidry has a very different type of style and scheme than Manny and I'm looking forward to getting to see his defense up close. It's one thing to see a coach and his style when he coaches another team. It's quite another when he is coaching the team you love and follow so closely. This applies to Dawson as well. Once they start coaching at UM then I tend to put them under a microscope. We all do.

I would appreciate it if someone would put Guidry's system in a nutshell for us that haven't really watched him closely before now.
 
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