'23 Defensive pressure off the Edge and more

[LuCane]

So, this started as a separate discussion offline. I thought we needed more pressure off the edge and hurrying the QB in '23.

A solid point was made that we were Top 10 in sacks in '22.

I admit my refusal to re-watch games the way I have in prior seasons, so my feeling about our lack of elite rush felt shaky. I'm hopeful we can sort of crowdsource this investigation. Some points:

- We were 100th (!!!) last year in 3rd down conversion defense. ****, if many of you remember, we seemingly were shaky even on 3rd and long situations. When something like this happens over the course of the season, it means you likely struggled despite varying attempts to drop 7, blitz, etc.

- I don't remember our defense blitzing as much as I expected or thought we needed, but I understand our '22 issues in the Back 7.

- Our top Sacks player last year was Mesidor, who only had 7 sacks. 3.5 of those sacks came against VT. Many of his sacks overall came directly from the inside or on twists/games working from the outside in. I think we all know he's a hybrid type player who's not expected to bend the Edge in a traditional way. He's actually the prototype TITE front player, though. Likely going to find a role in the NFL.

- We had a high % of our Sacks last year coming from the inside: LT had 3, DJackson had 3, JHH had 2, Jordan Miller 1, and Mesidor, as mentioned, contributed from the inside, too.

- On the Edge, we had Harvey with 4.5 and Kelly with 4.

Rather than go through every single snap and torture myself with last year's games, I thought just to start a thread and maybe we can discuss our way through these core questions:

1. Will someone (who? Kelly?) elevate their game and become a genuine threat off the Edge?

2. Will we get LTaylor enough snaps and will he step up to the point he'll provide significant disruption (to me, Sacks aren't the "end all, be all," as hurries change outcomes, too)?

3. Will Guidry simply disguise and blitz more and better? Is that how we'll get the necessary pressure on QBs?

All in all, we need to improve 3rd down % defense and get off the field.

 

[Odysseus]

Nyjalik is gonna help big time this year I believe he can get to double digit sacks with his skill set. And LT with increased role as well as becoming a upperclassmen now he should dominate more games

 

[Gocanes1990]

Apologies for not hitting 1-3 in perfect format but here’s what I know…

what I’ve been hearing is Deen is a very good player and great complement to Messidor. His B1G production was 100% legit and he’s proving that every day on GT.

LT will give us a serious pressure inside on passing downs. Bain has all the tools to disrupt the passer. I’m more worried about true edge disrupters, bc Kelly was coming back from injury….

We will blitz more and more intelligently. I just think Guidry is a killer (watch ND V Marshall from last year).

 

[LuCane]

Apologies for not hitting 1-3 in perfect format but here’s what I know…

what I’ve been hearing is Deen is a very good player and great complement to Messidor. His B1G production was 100% legit and he’s proving that every day on GT.

LT will give us a serious pressure inside on passing downs. Bain has all the tools to disrupt the passer. I’m more worried about true edge disrupters, bc Kelly was coming back from injury….

We will blitz more and more intelligently. I just think Guidry is a killer (watch ND V Marshall from last year).

Appreciate the insight. It's 3rd and 11 and I don't want to be forced to send 5 just to get the QB off schedule.

Last year, we didn't have someone who could make it happen. Hope someone steps up this year.

 

[Damiencane86]

My concern on the defensive side is run defense. Depth at DT is mediocre so we must stay healthy and scheme accordingly. Guidry is aggressive in nature but he'll have to find balance so we don't become a feast or famine type unit. I think we've upgraded personnel in the back end + we are talented at d end so pass rush & pass defense, 3rd down efficiency should improve. If we stay mostly healthy and Guidry can prove to make adjustments in game we should be fine. He's proven he can field good units at small schools with 2 & 3 stars so we had proof of concept of a respectable football mind.

 

[N.M.B. Cane]

I could see Bain wreaking some havoc this year

 

[GOCANES05]

So, this started as a separate discussion offline. I thought we needed more pressure off the edge and hurrying the QB in '23.

A solid point was made that we were Top 10 in sacks in '22.

I admit my refusal to re-watch games the way I have in prior seasons, so my feeling about our lack of elite rush felt shaky. I'm hopeful we can sort of crowdsource this investigation. Some points:

- We were 100th (!!!) last year in 3rd down conversion defense. ****, if many of you remember, we seemingly were shaky even on 3rd and long situations. When something like this happens over the course of the season, it means you likely struggled despite varying attempts to drop 7, blitz, etc.

- I don't remember our defense blitzing as much as I expected or thought we needed, but I understand our '22 issues in the Back 7.

- Our top Sacks player last year was Mesidor, who only had 7 sacks. 3.5 of those sacks came against VT. Many of his sacks overall came directly from the inside or on twists/games working from the outside in. I think we all know he's a hybrid type player who's not expected to bend the Edge in a traditional way. He's actually the prototype TITE front player, though. Likely going to find a role in the NFL.

- We had a high % of our Sacks last year coming from the inside: LT had 3, DJackson had 3, JHH had 2, Jordan Miller 1, and Mesidor, as mentioned, contributed from the inside, too.

- On the Edge, we had Harvey with 4.5 and Kelly with 4.

Rather than go through every single snap and torture myself with last year's games, I thought just to start a thread and maybe we can discuss our way through these core questions:

1. Will someone (who? Kelly?) elevate their game and become a genuine threat off the Edge?

2. Will we get LTaylor enough snaps and will he step up to the point he'll provide significant disruption (to me, Sacks aren't the "end all, be all," as hurries change outcomes, too)?

3. Will Guidry simply disguise and blitz more and better? Is that how we'll get the necessary pressure on QBs?

All in all, we need to improve 3rd down % defense and get off the field.

Good stuff right here boys

Nothing better then on third down seeing that QB attempt to step up from the pressure and pulls it down .

Three and out owe what a feeling

GOCANES

 

[Canesfan1899]

Someone posted Guidry almost seemed giddy when asked about Kelly. Feel like he can be a legit threat and 1st/2nd team acc type.

 

[AUcane]

I’ve been harping on our DE depth for a while. Kelly and mesidor are solid. Beyond that, it gets murky. After mesidor and Kelly, Bain is probably our best DE and while great for Bain and his future, it’s a reflection of lack of quality depth at DE.

At DT, similar story. I think LT and Dean are solid. After that, it gets real murky.

 

[DTP]

In hindsight, I probably shouldn’t have expected much with Kevin Steele last year. He runs a very vanilla scheme with little in terms of adjustments or alterations. He wants to come after you with four jumbo linemen and he won’t get too creative with fronts or sub packages. It’s a style that works great with elite talent but leaves a lot lacking when you don’t have a defense full of first rounders. (See: Shannon, Randy. We were actually not bad at generating pressure last year but we were so predictable that you pretty much were counting on our guys to win their one on one battles every down in order to have success. Essentially the scheme did nothing to help the players. It was just “beat your man, win your battle” and if that didn’t happen, they got gouged.

Lance Guidry is a much better candidate for the DC position here. We need someone who can get creative and actually scheme stops instead of just relying on out talenting everyone. His whole MO is not allowing the offense to get an easy pre snap read. So much of today’s offenses, especially passing games, is based off pre-snap reads. You see a defense do (A) and you do (B). But Guidry shows (A) then switches to (B) and then and has an option for (C). If you can force a QB to come off his pre-snap read, you’ve won half the battle.

 

[KingB02]

So, this started as a separate discussion offline. I thought we needed more pressure off the edge and hurrying the QB in '23.

A solid point was made that we were Top 10 in sacks in '22.

I admit my refusal to re-watch games the way I have in prior seasons, so my feeling about our lack of elite rush felt shaky. I'm hopeful we can sort of crowdsource this investigation. Some points:

- We were 100th (!!!) last year in 3rd down conversion defense. ****, if many of you remember, we seemingly were shaky even on 3rd and long situations. When something like this happens over the course of the season, it means you likely struggled despite varying attempts to drop 7, blitz, etc.

- I don't remember our defense blitzing as much as I expected or thought we needed, but I understand our '22 issues in the Back 7.

- Our top Sacks player last year was Mesidor, who only had 7 sacks. 3.5 of those sacks came against VT. Many of his sacks overall came directly from the inside or on twists/games working from the outside in. I think we all know he's a hybrid type player who's not expected to bend the Edge in a traditional way. He's actually the prototype TITE front player, though. Likely going to find a role in the NFL.

- We had a high % of our Sacks last year coming from the inside: LT had 3, DJackson had 3, JHH had 2, Jordan Miller 1, and Mesidor, as mentioned, contributed from the inside, too.

- On the Edge, we had Harvey with 4.5 and Kelly with 4.

Rather than go through every single snap and torture myself with last year's games, I thought just to start a thread and maybe we can discuss our way through these core questions:

1. Will someone (who? Kelly?) elevate their game and become a genuine threat off the Edge?

2. Will we get LTaylor enough snaps and will he step up to the point he'll provide significant disruption (to me, Sacks aren't the "end all, be all," as hurries change outcomes, too)?

3. Will Guidry simply disguise and blitz more and better? Is that how we'll get the necessary pressure on QBs?

All in all, we need to improve 3rd down % defense and get off the field.

Everything elder you said after 10th in sacks doesn’t matter. We were getting to the QB and that’s all that matters. Only other thing I agree on is that third down defense must improve. All those guys you mentioned are older now and have gone through another season of training, so why would you not expect them to get better. And also, we got plenty of sacks off the edge and even if we were not, we were forcing QBs inside to get sacked. Also, our leading tackler you said only had 7 sacks missed a quarter of the season due to injury and would have had double digit sacks if not for injury. And Kelly was a 17 year old for half the season and still had 4 sacks. Plus we got Bain who is going to be a sack machine. Im not worried about our pass rush one bit! It’s the corners and LBs I’m worried about most and Francis is a dude there and Wes is in his second season. He played well last year. Also need to step up our rush defense

 

[RangerGranger]

I could see Bain wreaking some havoc this year

I'm predicting 9+ from him.

 

[Scorpioncane]

I’ve been harping on our DE depth for a while. Kelly and mesidor are solid. Beyond that, it gets murky. After mesidor and Kelly, Bain is probably our best DE and while great for Bain and his future, it’s a reflection of lack of quality depth at DE.

At DT, similar story. I think LT and Dean are solid. After that, it gets real murky.

Lack of quality depth? you conveniently, forgot bout chantz and jafari!

 

[AUcane]

Lack of quality depth? you conveniently, forgot bout chantz and jafari!

I included them. they are underwhelming. Nice hustle guys but that’s about it. Jmo.

 

[E1k]

Great post, i think the added pressure will come from guidry’s blitzes. More sim pressures and creepers so the qb cant have clean pre snap looks, less predictable as steele. I think guidry will manufacture alot of sacks/pressures thru that, like u said we don’t have great edges so we have to find other ways.

I agree with u that I value pressures over sacks, Uga didn’t have alot of sacks last year but they were the #3 3rd down defense(marshall was #1). I expect the biggest jump to be 3rd down defense

I think this defense is perfect for LT, I think he will have a big year. Need him to be in great shape and more consistent so he can play more snaps, that will create plays for others too. I think njalik is better this year too

 

[LuCane]

Everything elder you said after 10th in sacks doesn’t matter. We were getting to the QB and that’s all that matters.

I'm happy to read you're optimistic about the '23 pass rush. I have to push back on this bolded statement (above). How we get to the QB matters. You know football well enough to know that, I think. If we got to the QB via massive blitzing (we didn't, I acknowledge), it'd matter if we got shredded behind it. If we got there mostly through twists/looping and, like Diaz days, abandoning all gap integrity, it'd matter.

In our case, we didn't seem to generate a lot of pressure off the Edge. Really, we just didn't have that kind of player. And, the pressure we generated from inside was inconsistent. I'd say it was a factor (among multiple) in our atrocious 3rd down conversion %, which you agreed we need to improve. Overall, I'm hoping someone like Kelly steps up and, sure, maybe Bain is the terror we all hope as a true Frosh. I also am hopeful Guidry helps us with better blitz packages and disguises. We shall see.

Im not worried about our pass rush one bit! It’s the corners and LBs I’m worried about most and Francis is a dude there and Wes is in his second season. He played well last year. Also need to step up our rush defense.

I'm actually optimistic about how Francisco Mauigoa and WesleyB, together, will help our pass coverage defense. At times, it was awful last season. Francisco showed he can get better depth and has a better feel for zone than almost anyone we pushed out there last season. Wesley closed on players in the flat as well as anyone had done here in years.

 

[JHallCanes]

Asking us to go back and re-live 2022 is a tough ask and I appreciate you making it more about 2023

I remember 2022 like you do. We did get a lot of sacks but there didn’t feel like there was a lot of danger for opposing QBs at the same time

Mesidor did a lot of hard work for his sacks. Our secondary took a beating at times but I remember a lot of coverage sacks, long developing sacks etc

We didn’t have much for that off the edge pressure that creates turnovers and huge plays

But still, we did get a lot of sacks and that bodes well coming in to this year. We have some younger edge players that might be good for a few pressures a game and I’m obviously curious to see more about the way Guidry uses the front 7

We infused a lot of speed on defense especially with the young guys

 

[DoctorKrazey]

Super excited thinking about how good this unit can be this year. We should finish near the top in the country in sacks, takeaways, QB pressures, etc. The key for this season is getting off the field on 3rd down, and not giving up too many explosive plays. My expectations for this year’s defense is extremely optimistic and I’ll go on record saying this will be a Top-20 group.

 

[Luke Caneswalker]

I wonder if Cyrus Moss will be a 3rd down specialist. The length and speed can cause problems (confidence). Hope he added some weight.

 

[dirtyred786]

My concern on the defensive side is run defense. Depth at DT is mediocre so we must stay healthy and scheme accordingly. Guidry is aggressive in nature but he'll have to find balance so we don't become a feast or famine type unit. I think we've upgraded personnel in the back end + we are talented at d end so pass rush & pass defense, 3rd down efficiency should improve. If we stay mostly healthy and Guidry can prove to make adjustments in game we should be fine. He's proven he can field good units at small schools with 2 & 3 stars so we had proof of concept of a respectable football mind.

Our problem with defending the run has been our linebacker play, or lack there of.