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12-Team College Football Playoff?

TheOriginalCane

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I'd actually argue that on a broad scale the regular season will INCREASE in value. Conference championships will now be more important than ever and you'll have 20+ teams having very meaningful regular season games all the way to the conclusion of the season.

You absolutely can make the case that teams 9-12 will drastically dilute the postseason. That said, I'm fine with ONE loss not killing OUR hopes when SEC teams currently almost get TWO losses as gimmes before we even BEGIN to preclude them from postseason talk.

:100:
 

TheOriginalCane

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I think more teams making the playoff will spread out the elite 5* more. Over time more playoff teams will equal more parity.


Exactly.

Recruits have taken the BCS-2 and the CFB-4 into consideration, which is what has ASSISTED with the concentration of top recruits going to Bama-Clemson-Ohio Taint-Oklahoma (and, yes, I know that bag$ are a part of it too).

But now, if a kid knows he can consider 20 schools which have a shot at the 12 playoff slots, it will SLOWLY but absolutely give kids the feeling that they do not HAVE TO pick Bama-Clemson-Taint-Oklahoma just to have a shot at the post-season.

It will take a few years, but you WILL get some dilution of talent, and it will be harder (not impossible) for those schools to maintain dominant recruiting. Combine this with the Portal Effect and some post-Covid tendencies for kids to want to play close to home, and it will lead to a bit more parity in college football.
 
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U know what’s sad:

If there was a 12 team playoff last season, we wouldn’t have made it. As a matter of fact, outside of 2017, we wouldn’t have made the playoffs since 2004 even w/ an expanded 12 team playoff. Let that sink in.

Anyways, the fans saying let’s expand to 12 r the fans of G5 squads who want a shot & fans of teams who have been consistently mediocre.

Expanding to 12 teams is dumb, period. Going to 8? Sure, but at no given point is teams 9-12 deserving to be vying for a Nat’l title. Do I wanna see a 8-4 UF team playing for a title?? Fck no, but guess what? Under a 12 team format, they would’ve been in b4 the bowl season. The CFB regular season will be completely devalued. The rivalry, the must win game, all of that will be gone. It should be ur P5 conference champions, Top G5 conference champion, and 2 at large.
This is a correct statement but a 12 team playoff expands opportunity to other teams, which provides 5 star and high 4 star recruits more school choices to get a shot at winning a NC. Top south Florida talent will have less reason to go to other schools over Miami. This opens the door to changing who the top 5 teams are each year at a much quicker rate then we have seen in last 15 years.
 

TheOriginalCane

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If Conference championships are objective, then so are w-l records, but anyone with a brain knows that records with the same number of wins and losses arent all the same. And if you want to go with conference championships are objective, then g5 champs are just as valid. It’s the p5 vs g5 that was subjectively labeled based on their history and their ability to sell tv deals. And if you want to take out sos and margin of victory and the eye test, then everyone might as well be ranked by their record. In that case, we were tied with 40 other teams last year as the 4th best team in the Country. What a recruiting pitch…


Look, I'm going to try not to be harsh, but I clearly did not say to take out SOS and Margin of Victory completely. As I said, you can create a very fair and equitable system where the top 4 seeds with byes are ones that win OBJECTIVE conference championship titles, and then you fill out the rest of the field with non-champs (for the most part). Over and over again, I have touted a hybrid system of selecting the playoff teams, but I absolutely criticize a bunch of committee dorks who use SOS and Margin of Victory to ONLY pick four teams, and then obsess over how to seed FOUR FREAKING TEAMS. Seeding 4 teams is where SOS and Margin of Victory become insanely hair-splitting.

And don't give me any crap that "G5 champs are just as valid". No.

You create objective goals. First goal is to win a conference championship that WILL get you in the field. Next goal is to win as many games as possible to get the highest-possible seeding (and weakest possible opponent). This isn't that complicated.

But you also eliminate the sheer subjectiveness associated with teams in the 5-10 range. You get to an overall number (12) where it is impossible to argue that Team #13 "should have" made it into the old Final 4 consideration.

I'm still happier with a Sweet Sixteen that does not award any byes, but I can roll with a 12-team playoff.
 
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I'd actually argue that on a broad scale the regular season will INCREASE in value. Conference championships will now be more important than ever and you'll have 20+ teams having very meaningful regular season games all the way to the conclusion of the season.

You absolutely can make the case that teams 9-12 will drastically dilute the postseason. That said, I'm fine with ONE loss not killing OUR hopes when SEC teams currently almost get TWO losses as gimmes before we even BEGIN to preclude them from postseason talk.
Overtime we will see the top 5 teams in the country loose talent to the next top 10 to 20 programs, which will may make the lower seed teams stronger relative to the top teams. Further, even if this does not happen, who wouldn't watch Coastal Carolina play at Notre Dame? Imagine if Costal won a game like that in a playoff environment. The entire country would get excited about that even if it is in the first round. Who cares if they loose to Bama in the quarters. Drama sells. Current bowl system has absolutely no appeal to fans outside of the 4 team playoff.
 
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Exactly.

Recruits have taken the BCS-2 and the CFB-4 into consideration, which is what has ASSISTED with the concentration of top recruits going to Bama-Clemson-Ohio Taint-Oklahoma (and, yes, I know that bag$ are a part of it too).

But now, if a kid knows he can consider 20 schools which have a shot at the 12 playoff slots, it will SLOWLY but absolutely give kids the feeling that they do not HAVE TO pick Bama-Clemson-Taint-Oklahoma just to have a shot at the post-season.

It will take a few years, but you WILL get some dilution of talent, and it will be harder (not impossible) for those schools to maintain dominant recruiting. Combine this with the Portal Effect and some post-Covid tendencies for kids to want to play close to home, and it will lead to a bit more parity in college football.
This is exactly how things would play out.
 

TheOriginalCane

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I love that people claim this is going to an objective process where we will “decide the champion on the field”. In reality, we will be giving the CFP committee more power than they’ve ever had. They will now be choosing six at large teams AND deciding the entire order for the bracket.

Dopey porst, as per your usual.

They currently PICK 4 teams, as none of them need to be conference champs. Now they would pick 6.

They seed all the teams in ANY playoff field.

Same job as they EVER had. Except now, there are a lot fewer whining debates over Team #5 and seeding. With 12 teams to seed, sure, the CFP might "miss" by a spot or two, but not in a way that cuts off a worthy team from being in the playoffs. The #5 ranked team plays the #12 ranked team and who gives a damn if that same #5 team was somehow seeded #7 and (gasp) needs to play the #10 team instead.

Nobody is going to lose any sanity because they had to play a team one or two spots higher in the first round, as long as they have a chance to win a championship.
 

TheOriginalCane

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U know; this is definitely a caveat I didn’t think about. U r absolutely right.

Oh, and on another, totally different note...Colin Cowherd exposed the real reason behind this; this is going to be a massive money grab. With that being said, it’s going to be real hard to continue to justify kids not getting paid.


Cowherd "exposed" that reason?

I thought that was a given. Is there ANYONE who didn't think that $$$ was the primary motivating reason? Oh, this whole thing is to help the G5 conferences? Yeeeeeahhhhh...no.
 

Mklein13

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Dopey porst, as per your usual.

They currently PICK 4 teams, as none of them need to be conference champs. Now they would pick 6.

They seed all the teams in ANY playoff field.

Same job as they EVER had. Except now, there are a lot fewer whining debates over Team #5 and seeding. With 12 teams to seed, sure, the CFP might "miss" by a spot or two, but not in a way that cuts off a worthy team from being in the playoffs. The #5 ranked team plays the #12 ranked team and who gives a damn if that same #5 team was somehow seeded #7 and (gasp) needs to play the #10 team instead.

Nobody is going to lose any sanity because they had to play a team one or two spots higher in the first round, as long as they have a chance to win a championship.
It's Jagr....don't expect any less from that knobjob
 

TheOriginalCane

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Oh, no doubt about it bro.


Yeah. And for better or worse, this is just the latest in a looooong line of money grabs, starting from the point when colleges and conferences got control of their own games to be able to sign contracts and sell their "content".

The Supreme Court case led to the first round of conference expansion, which led to the BCS, which led to the second round of conference expansion, which led to the CFP, which led to the 12-team tournament of champions...

1623435271136.png
 

Rellyrell

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This is a correct statement but a 12 team playoff expands opportunity to other teams, which provides 5 star and high 4 star recruits more school choices to get a shot at winning a NC. Top south Florida talent will have less reason to go to other schools over Miami. This opens the door to changing who the top 5 teams are each year at a much quicker rate then we have seen in last 15 years.

OK; I see ur line of reason, but it’s flawed Brotha.

The top players r still going to go to the top schools. Hell, u can expand the playoffs to 32 teams; that’s not going to change a damn thing that teams 1-4 (OSU, Bama, Clemson, OU) are going to steam roll teams 7-32.

Let’s put it like this; CBB has a field of 65. Hella G5 teams make the NCAA tourney AND make noise. The Zags r one of those teams. The Zags r just now getting 1 Top 10 player per class for the last 2 classes (and they were teammates)...but there’s a reason the top 50 players continually go to Duke, UK, KU, UNC, etc. So even w/ greater exposure to “play or compete” for a National Championship at these other schools, The Blue Bloods continually get the best of the best.

Collegiate sports is truly the have & have nots. We forced our way into the haves & lost our seat at the table. Expanding to 12 teams don’t mean chit, my guy, if teams 7-12 are nothing more than a rotational sacrificial lamb for the teams 1-4. That doesn’t change the needle. We gotta get to a point where we become at least team 5-6 to start moving recruiting to the upper echelon.
 

Rellyrell

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I'd actually argue that on a broad scale the regular season will INCREASE in value. Conference championships will now be more important than ever and you'll have 20+ teams having very meaningful regular season games all the way to the conclusion of the season.

You absolutely can make the case that teams 9-12 will drastically dilute the postseason. That said, I'm fine with ONE loss not killing OUR hopes when SEC teams currently almost get TWO losses as gimmes before we even BEGIN to preclude them from postseason talk.

Yeah; let me clarify b/c I actually agree w/ u... I was referring to strictly the 12 team format. Imo, it’ll give them an excuse to include a 3 loss SEC team by qualifying “quality losses.” I don’t wanna see that chit. I want to see the best 8 teams going at it, while giving some of these upper tiered G5 programs like Cincy, Boise St & opportunity to play for a National Championship vs NY6 bowl births. If u have 3 or more losses on ur schedule, u shouldn’t be rewarded if U’re not a P5 conference champion.
 
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TheOriginalCane

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OK; I see ur line of reason, but it’s flawed Brotha.

The top players r still going to go to the top schools. Hell, u can expand the playoffs to 32 teams; that’s not going to change a damn thing that teams 1-4 (OSU, Bama, Clemson, OU) are going to steam roll teams 7-32.

Let’s put it like this; CBB has a field of 65. Hella G5 teams make the NCAA tourney AND make noise. The Zags r one of those teams. The Zags r just now getting 1 Top 10 player per class for the last 2 classes (and they were teammates)...but there’s a reason the top 50 players continually go to Duke, UK, KU, UNC, etc. So even w/ greater exposure to “play or compete” for a National Championship at these other schools, The Blue Bloods continually get the best of the best.

Collegiate sports is truly the have & have nots. We forced our way into the haves & lost our seat at the table. Expanding to 12 teams don’t mean chit, my guy, if teams 7-12 are nothing more than a rotational sacrificial lamb for the teams 1-4. That doesn’t change the needle. We gotta get to a point where we become at least team 5-6 to start moving recruiting to the upper echelon.


You make some good points, but you also have some flaws in the comparisons.

To say that "top players are still going to the top schools" is an oversimplification. In nearly 50 years of "modern" AP/UPI/ESPN rankings, the University of Miami was the only NUMBER FIVE team to jump to #1 after the bowl season. So there has ALWAYS been a bias towards Top 4 teams, yet we have NEVER seen the recruiting dominated by 4 or 5 teams like we see it today. I can definitely see why kids like (and pick) Alabama and Clemson, but we cannot ignore the INSTITUTIONAL reasons which favor that. Hell, it wasn't THAT long ago when top recruits factored in "immediate playing time" a lot more, and thus did not concentrate most of the 5-stars at 4-5 schools.

CBB has a field of 68. And the issue is not whether Gonzaga just got a Top 10 player, but whether all non-Duke/non-Kentucky/non-Kansas teams have a shot at Top 10 players. Even then, it is still an imperfect comparison, because "Top 10" players in basketball are usually one-and-done candidates, and only a few NCAA programs are BUILT to handle one-and-done kids every single year.

College football players need to stay for 3 years. And if a 5-star kid goes to Alabama and gets stuck behind another 5-star kid, and eventually transfers...well, when you combine THAT observation with the concept of going to a (slightly) lesser school and still having a shot to win...well then, that's a pretty potent combination of considerations for a recruit to choose a non-Alabama-type school.

You are entitled to your opinion on "expanding to 12 teams". I would just suggest..."let it play out". I have a very sneaking suspicion that "Portal" and a few other factors will lead to a loosening (not a complete destruction) of the recruiting dominance enjoyed by a few schools over the past decade.

Let's revisit this subject in 2030. 12-team playoffs will be here in 2025, and by 2030 we should have a 5-year cycle of recruiting to evaluate.
 

TimeBum

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I haven’t been keeping up with the media, where does it say that it looks like it’s a done deal?

This guy might be full of it, but he thinks it's a fait accompli.


"A CFP working group, which included Sankey, decided on Thursday that a 12-team playoff should be implemented in the future. It’s not official yet, but it’s happening. A vote for expansion could happen as early as June 22. The College Football Playoff management committee will consider the working group’s suggestion next week in Chicago."
 
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You make some good points, but you also have some flaws in the comparisons.

To say that "top players are still going to the top schools" is an oversimplification. In nearly 50 years of "modern" AP/UPI/ESPN rankings, the University of Miami was the only NUMBER FIVE team to jump to #1 after the bowl season. So there has ALWAYS been a bias towards Top 4 teams, yet we have NEVER seen the recruiting dominated by 4 or 5 teams like we see it today. I can definitely see why kids like (and pick) Alabama and Clemson, but we cannot ignore the INSTITUTIONAL reasons which favor that. Hell, it wasn't THAT long ago when top recruits factored in "immediate playing time" a lot more, and thus did not concentrate most of the 5-stars at 4-5 schools.

CBB has a field of 68. And the issue is not whether Gonzaga just got a Top 10 player, but whether all non-Duke/non-Kentucky/non-Kansas teams have a shot at Top 10 players. Even then, it is still an imperfect comparison, because "Top 10" players in basketball are usually one-and-done candidates, and only a few NCAA programs are BUILT to handle one-and-done kids every single year.

College football players need to stay for 3 years. And if a 5-star kid goes to Alabama and gets stuck behind another 5-star kid, and eventually transfers...well, when you combine THAT observation with the concept of going to a (slightly) lesser school and still having a shot to win...well then, that's a pretty potent combination of considerations for a recruit to choose a non-Alabama-type school.

You are entitled to your opinion on "expanding to 12 teams". I would just suggest..."let it play out". I have a very sneaking suspicion that "Portal" and a few other factors will lead to a loosening (not a complete destruction) of the recruiting dominance enjoyed by a few schools over the past decade.

Let's revisit this subject in 2030. 12-team playoffs will be here in 2025, and by 2030 we should have a 5-year cycle of recruiting to evaluate.
This is the logical choice of what will happen. We won't be stuck where we have been stuck the last 10 years with the same teams. Things cycle in college football but right now they are cycling really slow. Alabama will slip at some point and other schools will step up. This will speed up that process.
 

CaneFanWNY

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Id like to see 6 or 8 (mainly 6) before 12 off the rip IMO. 12 just screams "recovering covid deficits" to me and is just more SEC dicksucking than actually thinking about these kids.

-5 p5 Champs (or dismantle the AAC and turn the other 4 into super 16s and disperse the lower tiered AAC teams into the at large bid)

-1 at large (or 2 in other scenario)

-1-5 seed based off of post CCG rank (or 4 on other scenario)

-*MAKE INDEPENDENT FOOTBALL SCHOOLS THAT ARE AFFILIATED WITH A CONFERENCE IN OTHER SPORTS OR JUST INDEPENDENT IN GENERAL (service academies ommited from this) JOIN SAID CONFERENCE OR GET LEFT THE FVCK OUT OF THE RANKINGS AND PLAYOFF ELIGIBILITY ENTIRELY*
-#1 & #2 1st week bye, 3 vs 6, 4 vs 5 etc etc
-10 conference games, 2 OOC games, no more non D1A opponents for puzzy schools like Ohio state and Florida to pad stats and wins with the Jacksonville states of the world. This will put pressure on G5 to wanna fill up their 2 games with top 25 teams to test their worth for a spot, and at a minimum it keeps OOC rivalry games intact (and if they aren't, then the school is cowardly like the piss puddle in Gainesville)

Make teams in all 5 conferences earn it in the regular season, inside of their conference.

The current selection committee needs to be gutted and redone or abolished in its entirety because they're blatantly biased and are honestly no better than the BCS format anyways, to me. 12 teams with this committee means 5 SEC schools and then everyone else. Thats not a playoff, that's just an extended conference championship.
 

TimeBum

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5 SEC schools and then everyone else.

You are probably right. I think the committee will ALWAYS pick Bama, UGA, TAMU, UF, and LSU as long as they don't lose more than 3 games in the regular season. One of the other SEC schools can sneak into that fifth spot if either UF or LSU slip up. Clemson, Ohio State, and Oklahoma are locks as long as they don't lose more than 2. Then Pac 10 champ gets the other guaranteed. G5s will get two because the committee wants people to think it is giving the little guy a chance. So that leaves just one slot for the best remaining team among the Pac12, Big10, Big12, and ACC.
 

Rellyrell

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You make some good points, but you also have some flaws in the comparisons.

To say that "top players are still going to the top schools" is an oversimplification. In nearly 50 years of "modern" AP/UPI/ESPN rankings, the University of Miami was the only NUMBER FIVE team to jump to #1 after the bowl season. So there has ALWAYS been a bias towards Top 4 teams, yet we have NEVER seen the recruiting dominated by 4 or 5 teams like we see it today. I can definitely see why kids like (and pick) Alabama and Clemson, but we cannot ignore the INSTITUTIONAL reasons which favor that. Hell, it wasn't THAT long ago when top recruits factored in "immediate playing time" a lot more, and thus did not concentrate most of the 5-stars at 4-5 schools.

CBB has a field of 68. And the issue is not whether Gonzaga just got a Top 10 player, but whether all non-Duke/non-Kentucky/non-Kansas teams have a shot at Top 10 players. Even then, it is still an imperfect comparison, because "Top 10" players in basketball are usually one-and-done candidates, and only a few NCAA programs are BUILT to handle one-and-done kids every single year.

College football players need to stay for 3 years. And if a 5-star kid goes to Alabama and gets stuck behind another 5-star kid, and eventually transfers...well, when you combine THAT observation with the concept of going to a (slightly) lesser school and still having a shot to win...well then, that's a pretty potent combination of considerations for a recruit to choose a non-Alabama-type school.

You are entitled to your opinion on "expanding to 12 teams". I would just suggest..."let it play out". I have a very sneaking suspicion that "Portal" and a few other factors will lead to a loosening (not a complete destruction) of the recruiting dominance enjoyed by a few schools over the past decade.

Let's revisit this subject in 2030. 12-team playoffs will be here in 2025, and by 2030 we should have a 5-year cycle of recruiting to evaluate.

Bro; I hope to be alive in 2030. Lol
 
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