Nopain said:

So at what point do we realize that guys like Ivey and Flagg are who they are and aren’t part of the future and start playing the young guys more and more? If we’re going to take our lumps, let’s do it with kids who may be here 3 years from now so it can pay dividends. That stubbornness is on the coaches.

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Rellyrell said:

Then ya’ll will complain about that. I promise u.

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Nopain said:

Not an answer…

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Rellyrell said:

• Which came first; the chicken or the egg? No seriously; which came first, The Culture of Miami Football or The New Staff?

Check my post history; I’m not & never have been a coach defender. This post, thread is not to justify, excuse, bargain, or even reason upon the monstrosity of yesterday’s game. It started funky with the tailgate being completely demolished by heavy rains, to MTSU completely & throughly smashing us. Again, while the off season was filled w/ the usual chest thumping, 15-0 / 10+ win or bust posters, along w/ the usual Green Tree Practice Reports adding Kool-Aid, there were a handful of posters, like myself, who cautioned season 1.

BCU game had everyone feeling good, & again, I posted historical data of us crushing FCS opponents in previous yrs & the end results. So often fans get caught up in the hype, they don’t have an honest evaluation of their team. I gotta frat bro right now in line to lose $50 to me b/c he think our Chi Bears is winning 8 games this yr b/c we got a new coach. Lol. That’s fans, bro; hard headed af, w/ the inability to see reality b/c they think w/ their emotions & not mind.

Question for all those who said bench Ivey: have u seen what’s behind him? Did u see a young Jaden Harris slide farther on the field than Manny ever did, as he was burnt? Have u seen Green Tree All-American, Graves, get BBQ chicken? So who’s replacing Ivey? Speaking of, how about that effort by Ivey on that 90+ TD? Did u see him run full sprint or jog?

Question for all those who said J Will is the next: did u see his **** poor efforts in tackling yesterday?

Question for all those who praised the portal moves, including crowning Messidor: where have they been?

Question for all those who thought the camp reports of half-assed efforts from the WRs in practice: are u now convinced of the ?able hands these guys have? Are u concerned that our go to guys are Redding & Ladson?

There’s never an excuse to lose to a MTSU team, not when you are a P5 squad. I don’t care who’ve they’ve upset in the past, the fact this team is a middling G5 team, but fans look at roster vs. something u can’t account for, culture. To illustrate, one of my boys in FL, young guy at 35 and into health & fitness like myself. Externally, he looks great, but no one knows internally he deals w/ depression & mood swings, & those things derails him a lot. Fortunately, he has a loving wife who helps him navigate through those times.

Externally, based upon 247 rankings, this roster should be competing for ACC titles & beating the snot out of all these teams we’ve faced. So why haven’t we? In the last 4 yrs, we’ve lost to more unranked G5 teams than we have in the last 40 yrs. alone. Chicken or Egg, folks?

I’ve clearly warned the make up of this roster, the mentality that’s crept in, and somehow you’ve convinced urself that was going to change b/c of a coach? The overwhelming data shows when a coach takes over a dumpster fire, it takes 2-3 yrs to clear out the filth. I remember Bama losing to ULM at home in 2007 & the vitriol that was spewed by friends who r Bama fans who wanted him gone. I remember SC fans hating the Carroll hire & hated him even more going 6-6 yr 1, including a baffling, pathetic performance against Utah in their bowl game (MWC Utah, not Pac-12 Utah)

The fans who r chirping the most r the ones who didn’t want Mario here in the 1st place. This is ur “See, I told u he was a bum” moment. Lol. It takes time to change culture, at least 2 yrs, but generally by year 3. Unless u’re Lincoln Riley & can bring ur squad w/ you to replace current players & a Belitnikoff WR, it’s incredibly difficult to have a 1 yr turn around. I’ve seen Saban, Carroll, Dabo, Aranda, Stoops (both of them) all look like Corches yr 1.

Things take time; if by year 3 we look like this, then we know it wasn’t the chicken; it was the egg

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• Nick Saban: 7-6
• Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
• Dave Aranda: 3-7
• Sam Pittman: 3-7
• Matt Campbell: 3-9
• Lane Kiffin: 2-5
• Josh Heupel: 7-6
• Luke Fickell: 4-8
• Brian Kelly: 8-5
• Kirby Smart: 8-5
• James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
• P.J. Fleck: 5-7
• Mel Tucker: 2-5
• Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
• *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6

Ispyin said:

Dude.

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FL Cane said:

Great post; these are my sentiments exactly. The reality is that Miami has had a culture of complacency and mediocrity for more than 18 years. We've gone through almost a generation of rosters that have embraced a broken culture. Losing to MTSU should never happen, but when we've lost to FIU and LA Tech in recent years, it's not very surprising. Our broken culture has conditioned our players to be fine with mediocrity.

Here's the reality. Mario inherited a team that was 28-21 over the past four seasons. No player on this team has ever won a bowl game or more than nine games in a season. Richt and Diaz were terrible recruiters who missed on the overwhelming majority of their evals. There isn't any position on this team other than RB that you can look at and say is a Top 40 unit in the country, let alone a Top 25 unit. We are 2 years away from being a team that can consistently put together 9-win seasons, and we're 3-4 years away from being nationally relevant. We get back to being good by 1) stacking talent and 2) completely revamping our culture.

Also, as you said (and like most people on this board are ignoring), almost any good HC in CFB today had a rough first year on the job. Some records to consider:

• Nick Saban: 7-6
• Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
• Dave Aranda: 3-7
• Sam Pittman: 3-7
• Matt Campbell: 3-9
• Lane Kiffin: 2-5
• Josh Heupel: 7-6
• Luke Fickell: 4-8
• Brian Kelly: 8-5
• Kirby Smart: 8-5
• James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
• P.J. Fleck: 5-7
• Mel Tucker: 2-5
• Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
• *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6

Point is, it's too early to be writing obituaries. We have to see how this year pans out and the changes this staff makes. Had Bama and Clemson fans had their way a year into Saban and Dabo, the runs would've never happened. TBD on how Mario pans out, but he needs the time to do it.

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Dgixxer252525 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying you need elite talent, but you DO need good attitude, mental toughness, decent effort and some talent to beat them. We have little to none of any of that.

Do you think we have any really solid players on our roster? Like players that could go to even MTSU and be impact players? If so, please name them because I see a lot of so-so guys who would be roll players at any other school.(look at the guys who have transferred out of here over the past few years)

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88 said:

This is what makes Urban that much more impressive as a college coach.

I believe he lost 3 his first year with Florida (won the title the next year) and went undefeated in a probation year in his first season at OSU. (Albeit, The culture he inherited was great as Tressel wasn’t fired for performance)

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FL Cane said:

Extremely impressive. Urban’s the only coach that did it. Just to give you an idea of how well that scumbag did in every CFB stop in his first year.

- Bowling Green (2-10 prior year): 8-3
- Utah (5-6 prior year): 10-2
- Florida (7-5 prior year): 9-3
- OSU (6-6 prior year): 12-0

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FL Cane said:

Great post; these are my sentiments exactly. The reality is that Miami has had a culture of complacency and mediocrity for more than 18 years. We've gone through almost a generation of rosters that have embraced a broken culture. Losing to MTSU should never happen, but when we've lost to FIU and LA Tech in recent years, it's not very surprising. Our broken culture has conditioned our players to be fine with mediocrity.

Here's the reality. Mario inherited a team that was 28-21 over the past four seasons. No player on this team has ever won a bowl game or more than nine games in a season. Richt and Diaz were terrible recruiters who missed on the overwhelming majority of their evals. There isn't any position on this team other than RB that you can look at and say is a Top 40 unit in the country, let alone a Top 25 unit. We are 2 years away from being a team that can consistently put together 9-win seasons, and we're 3-4 years away from being nationally relevant. We get back to being good by 1) stacking talent and 2) completely revamping our culture.

Also, as you said (and like most people on this board are ignoring), almost any good HC in CFB today had a rough first year on the job. Some records to consider:

• Nick Saban: 7-6
• Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
• Dave Aranda: 3-7
• Sam Pittman: 3-7
• Matt Campbell: 3-9
• Lane Kiffin: 2-5
• Josh Heupel: 7-6
• Luke Fickell: 4-8
• Brian Kelly: 8-5
• Kirby Smart: 8-5
• James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
• P.J. Fleck: 5-7
• Mel Tucker: 2-5
• Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
• *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6

Point is, it's too early to be writing obituaries. We have to see how this year pans out and the changes this staff makes. Had Bama and Clemson fans had their way a year into Saban and Dabo, the runs would've never happened. TBD on how Mario pans out, but he needs the time to do it.

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Dgixxer252525 said:

I don’t think anyone is saying you need elite talent, but you DO need good attitude, mental toughness, decent effort and some talent to beat them. We have little to none of any of that.

Do you think we have any really solid players on our roster? Like players that could go to even MTSU and be impact players? If so, please name them because I see a lot of so-so guys who would be roll players at any other school.(look at the guys who have transferred out of here over the past few years)

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hotshot said:

Who do we think we have in Mario?

Think everyone would agree he's probably one of the best recruiters in the country.

He lost enough at Oregon and before that gig to sorta form a consensus that he's personally no tactical game coaching "genius" and therefore needs to surround himself with an excellent staff (which it appeared he had done).

Now we see evidence he may not be a Knute Rockne-type motivator as his halftime adjustments didn't exactly have our players running through brick walls to pull the MTSU game out of the fire (even though we all probably thought that was gonna happen).

My main beef with our previous HCs was that I thought we needed a "master recruiter" first and foremost (and none of them this century had measured up to that high bar). So ... I'm riding with Mario and just have to hope he's the recruiter I think he is. Time will tell.

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Canegrad89 said:

Respectfully, I don't agree with this AT ALL. On offense alone, we have:

A TE that was ranked 2nd at his position behind Brevin
A TE (Arroyo) that was one of the top 5 at his position in his class
Jaleel Skinner who Mario pried away from Saban at the last minute (Top 3 in his class)
Zion who is a projected first rounder
Don Chaney - granted he's hurt but he's a stud when healthy
Rooster & Thad: both top 5 RBs in their counties
Parrish - experienced RB that played in the SEC and is a very good football player. He may not be Frank Gore or Barry Sanders but he's very good.
Ladson - a 4 star that went to Clemson when they were rolling. He is starting to flash now. He can be very good for us
Jake Garcia: one of the top 5 QBs in his class
TVD: was considered a Heisman candidate and strong first round candidate in the NFL draft

We should be shredding our opponents on offense. Many coaches in America would love to have that amount of talent. Facts.

It's on Defense where we have a more challenging situation. We have a mix of 4-star & 5-stars like LT, JW, Kam, Tae (who are still young & developing) and a bunch of JAGs (CB, DL & LB). We didn't do nearly enough in the Portal to fix this. We got depth in the Portal for sure but not much elite talent. Our talent at LB, CB and DL just isn't good enough. Combine that with lack of effort by the whole team & look out.

MTSU totally exposed our lack of back end speed with all those chunk plays & our LBs had a terrible game against a physical team. Our DL is meh at best this year. Cyrus Moss, N. Kelly and members of the incoming class could change this but we have an average at best DL that really doesn't get much serious pressure on opposing QBs.

I think the Defense had been outperforming its talent level prior to the MTSU game. They had a bad game against MTSU -- the multiple chunk plays were horrific. Not making excuses for them but the Offense put them in a huge hole early. That may have impacted the way the rest of the game played out. Kevin Steele is a terrific DC. One of the best hires Mario could have made. Charlie Strong has improved the LB play materially. They were completely absent last year (just invisible on the field) and the tackling was horrific. Charlie has improved that. His more experienced players are simply quite limited physically.

In summary, we have talent on Offense and we need to play the best players and start getting results. What we're seeing isn't nearly good enough. There is talent there to work with.

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Cribby said:

Nothing has changed from the day Mario was hired. We knew he’d recruit at a high level , coach up the OL, change the culture and would bring toughness. We also knew he was a suspect game day coach , he left a lot to be desired with offense / qb’s and would drop games occasionally that left you scratching your head. All of this looks to be true and fair. Hopefully he’s open to changing things the the negatives eventually. But he’s not Saban , let’s just stop with that insanity now. That part is where OP lost me. Their resumes are nothing alike.

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Nopain said:

So at what point do we realize that guys like Ivey and Flagg are who they are and aren’t part of the future and start playing the young guys more and more? If we’re going to take our lumps, let’s do it with kids who may be here 3 years from now so it can pay dividends. That stubbornness is on the coaches.

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Cribby said:

Nothing has changed from the day Mario was hired. We knew he’d recruit at a high level , coach up the OL, change the culture and would bring toughness. We also knew he was a suspect game day coach , he left a lot to be desired with offense / qb’s and would drop games occasionally that left you scratching your head. All of this looks to be true and fair. Hopefully he’s open to changing things the the negatives eventually. But he’s not Saban , let’s just stop with that insanity now. That part is where OP lost me. Their resumes are nothing alike.

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Rellyrell said:

I didn’t say he was Saban; I said Saban lost to ULM. I also said Bama fans wanted him gone and thought he was a bad hire after yr 1, especially after an embarrassing lost to ULM. Nothing more was said or implied. The point was the irrationality & unhinged expectations of coaches in yr 1 taking over a f’d up culture, & how even the greatest coach in our life time, maybe in the history of CFB fcked up yr 1.

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