Chicken Or The Egg

Chicken Or The Egg

Rellyrell

Comments (165)

That’s a one in a million comparison though. That’s the exception. Mario’s loss to a horrible MTSU team isn’t the same as Sabans because he was already a national title winning coach. Just like people here used the same excuse after Manny lost to FIU. It’s low hanging fruit on the excuse tree. We all knew that was coming the minute the clock hit zeros.

I agree with your premise and still belive Mario is the guy I just have the same questions about him now as I did when he was hired. Offense and qb’s have been an issue and still look to be.

Btw let’s not act like we had unrealistic goals for this team , 8-9 wins and winning the coastal is more than fair. We were picked to win the coastal for christs sake. Now y’all are just setting the bar low and accepting mediocrity because we face planted Saturday. We play in a bad conference and even worse division. Those aren’t a bunch of 2-3 stars on our roster. I get being patient but the sudden change to we’re awful is crazy. It’s a coping mechanism.

Excellent post.

I know Mario has his roots in philosophy but watching Bama and Ohio St, **** even what made TVD successful last year, why would you not want a modern day system that is speaking to QBs and WRs?
 
...SMU with Lashlee, etc where really good coaches are able to produce tangible improvements immediately. This notion that “everything always take time” to see improvement is garbage.

2021: SMU 42 TCU 34 on the road
2022: TCU 42 SMU 34 at home

That's the tangible improvement you're looking for?
 
Great post., but I disagree with the Urban 'miracle work' at OSU.

Jim Tressel was 66-11, with 2 BCS NC appearances, in the six seasons prior to the scandal that forced him to resign and the dismissal/suspension of a few key players. Do you seriously think he would have gone 6-6 in 2011 had there been no scandal?

Urban Meyer was a great CFB coach but the mythology around him grows every season.
Should've been more clear here. Taking away OSU, Urban is still the only CFB coach consistently pulling off one-year turnarounds. Before OSU, here were his first-year records:
  • Bowling Green (2-10 prior year): 8-3 1st year
  • Utah (5-6 prior year): 10-2 1st year
  • Florida (7-5 prior year): 9-3 1st year
OSU isn't really indicative, but all of his teams make major jumps in Year 1.
 
Should've been more clear here. Taking away OSU, Urban is still the only CFB coach consistently pulling off one-year turnarounds. Before OSU, here were his first-year records:
  • Bowling Green (2-10 prior year): 8-3 1st year
  • Utah (5-6 prior year): 10-2 1st year
  • Florida (7-5 prior year): 9-3 1st year
OSU isn't really indicative, but all of his teams make major jumps in Year 1.

In fairness, Meyer specifically sought out jobs where there was a stud QB returning. He wasn't stupid. But he also wasn't a miracle worker.
 
2021: SMU 42 TCU 34 on the road
2022: TCU 42 SMU 34 at home

That's the tangible improvement you're looking for?

Are you dumb????

You’re referencing a one game sample size for a first year HC in Lashlee who just so happens to be going against Sonny Dykes who coached SMU for the previous few seasons
 
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In fairness, Meyer specifically sought out jobs where there was a stud QB returning. He wasn't stupid. But he also wasn't a miracle worker.
I disagree. If you inherit programs as putrid as Bowling Green and Utah were and turn them around in a year flat, that's the definition of being a miracle worker. One turnaround could be a fluke, but three are hard to look past as luck. I think Urban sucks as a person, but the guy just has it as a coach.
 
Are you dumb????

You’re referencing a one game sample size for a first year HC in Lashlee who just so happens to be going against Sonny Dykes who coached SMU for the previous few seasons

You're the one who claimed that there has been improvement at SMU after a 2-2 start, so don't whine about sample size. He has already lost to a team that his predecessor beat. That's "improvement"?
 
How can I’m bringing up things that aren’t relatable when it’s the full picture?

So now Bama’s resources aren’t comparable to Mario’s resources? I could’ve sworn this whole narrative about Saban is he’s only successful b/c of being at “Baga.”

Look my boy, got love for u, but imma let u argue w/ urself on this one; but for the record, the whole premise is that even great coaches who step into a bull chit situation, have had bull chit records & losses in yr 1. But I’ll let ya’ll carry on as is
Its the manner of our losses. Its watching our qb regress each week to point of him being replaced against MTSU!

Miami losing to MTSU will get you criticized no matter what. But things seem to be in free fall right now. Nobody knows what to expect and people are right to be concerned until they see different.

Nobody is suggesting that Mario be fired.

IMO he's had a bad start but he can still right the ship. We haven't lost even one ACC game yet.
 
In fairness, Meyer specifically sought out jobs where there was a stud QB returning. He wasn't stupid. But he also wasn't a miracle worker.
Any good coach seeks good opportunities, when they can find them. No one seeks the least favorable.
 
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I hope you are right @Rellyrell. I think most objective posters knew that it was going to take some time to build a program but losing to MTSU is disheartening. I try not to be reactionary-irrational-sports-guy but I am questioning just about everything today.
U should ? everything. However, I did forewarn when ppl were knocking me on losing 4 games this yr, that we’ll have some “huh?” moments throughout the season. I don’t get caught up on the roster, any longer. When I hear, probably the first time in a long time, a brutally honest coach give an assessment of the roster, I listened.

There’s no excuse to lose to a MTSU; there’s no excuse to struggle w/ a So Miss. However, after witnessing this squad lose to a FIU, 3-9 GT team, sub .500 Duke team, 2-10 Maryland team, 4-8 UVA team, shut out in a bowl game by LA Tech, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc…nothing shocks me any longer.

Until I see how yr 2 goes, I’m not ready to fly the plane b/c I’ve seen great coaches fail miserably yr 1 of a rebuild; but, it’s definitely something I took note of.
 
used the same excuse after Manny lost to FIU.

Diaz was in his first year as a HC and lost to a former UM HC who should be in the college FB HOF (who also had his players faking injuries all game to make sure UM couldn't get into an offensive rhythm).

Diaz was also making about 1/3 the salary of Mario Cristobal. After that first year, when did Diaz lose again to a non P5 school?

This is Mario's third HC gig. He doesn't get graded on a curve.

I don't believe in Mario, I believe in John Ruiz. Mario has proven time and again he's a meathead who wont adapt. His only chance of winning a championship at UM is if his good friend John Ruiz buys him the best players in HS and the portal, and Mario can construct a roster with more talent than UGA or Bama.
 
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2 - 3 years until we are competing with Clemson or Bama is one thing. We lost to Middle Tennessee State. Their recruiting rankings are in the 100’s. If Mario needs that much of a talent advantage to make his system work, then maybe he needs to re-evaluate his philosophy.

Not to mention, in the portal era you can pretty much rebuild a roster in one offseason.
You don't want to rebuild a team with bunch of portal players. If you want your culture to take hold , you need to have players from their freshman year. Attitude is a huge problem with this team. We don't want players who like to win, we need players who want to win. More so You have to have players who can't stand to lose, who won't tolerate it. You soon will see,if you haven't already who has the fire and who doesn't. Ken Dorsey reminded everyone yesterday the fire of someone who can't stand to lose.
 
In fairness, Meyer specifically sought out jobs where there was a stud QB returning. He wasn't stupid. But he also wasn't a miracle worker.
I'd consider what Mario did coming to Miami with a QB on a 6 game 300 yard streak is pretty much the same thing.
 
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Which came first; the chicken or the egg? No seriously; which came first, The Culture of Miami Football or The New Staff?

Check my post history; I’m not & never have been a coach defender. This post, thread is not to justify, excuse, bargain, or even reason upon the monstrosity of yesterday’s game. It started funky with the tailgate being completely demolished by heavy rains, to MTSU completely & throughly smashing us. Again, while the off season was filled w/ the usual chest thumping, 15-0 / 10+ win or bust posters, along w/ the usual Green Tree Practice Reports adding Kool-Aid, there were a handful of posters, like myself, who cautioned season 1.

BCU game had everyone feeling good, & again, I posted historical data of us crushing FCS opponents in previous yrs & the end results. So often fans get caught up in the hype, they don’t have an honest evaluation of their team. I gotta frat bro right now in line to lose $50 to me b/c he think our Chi Bears is winning 8 games this yr b/c we got a new coach. Lol. That’s fans, bro; hard headed af, w/ the inability to see reality b/c they think w/ their emotions & not mind.

Question for all those who said bench Ivey: have u seen what’s behind him? Did u see a young Jaden Harris slide farther on the field than Manny ever did, as he was burnt? Have u seen Green Tree All-American, Graves, get BBQ chicken? So who’s replacing Ivey? Speaking of, how about that effort by Ivey on that 90+ TD? Did u see him run full sprint or jog?

Question for all those who said J Will is the next: did u see his **** poor efforts in tackling yesterday?

Question for all those who praised the portal moves, including crowning Messidor: where have they been?

Question for all those who thought the camp reports of half-assed efforts from the WRs in practice: are u now convinced of the ?able hands these guys have? Are u concerned that our go to guys are Redding & Ladson?

There’s never an excuse to lose to a MTSU team, not when you are a P5 squad. I don’t care who’ve they’ve upset in the past, the fact is this team is a middling G5 team, but fans look at roster vs. something u can’t account for, culture. To illustrate, one of my boys in FL, young guy at 35 and into health & fitness like myself. Externally, he looks great, but no one knows internally he deals w/ depression & mood swings, & those things derails him a lot. Fortunately, he has a loving wife who helps him navigate through those times.

Externally, based upon 247 rankings, this roster should be competing for ACC titles & beating the snot out of all these teams we’ve faced. So why haven’t we? In the last 4 yrs, we’ve lost to more unranked G5 teams than we have in the last 40 yrs. alone. Chicken or Egg, folks?

I’ve clearly warned the make up of this roster, the mentality that’s crept in, and somehow you’ve convinced urself that was going to change b/c of a coach? The overwhelming data shows when a coach takes over a dumpster fire, it takes 2-3 yrs to clear out the filth. I remember Bama losing to ULM at home in 2007 & the vitriol that was spewed by friends who r Bama fans who wanted him gone. I remember SC fans hating the Carroll hire & hated him even more going 6-6 yr 1, including a baffling, pathetic performance against Utah in their bowl game (MWC Utah, not Pac-12 Utah)

The fans who r chirping the most r the ones who didn’t want Mario here in the 1st place. This is ur “See, I told u he was a bum” moment. Lol. It takes time to change culture, at least 2 yrs, but generally by year 3. Unless u’re Lincoln Riley & can bring ur squad w/ you to replace current players & a Belitnikoff WR, it’s incredibly difficult to have a 1 yr turn around. I’ve seen Saban, Carroll, Dabo, Aranda, Stoops (both of them) all look like Corches yr 1.

Things take time; if by year 3 we look like this, then we know it wasn’t the chicken; it was the egg
💯💯💯with most this. I’ll say this tho, the team last year did not quit. And most of the losses ppl here and in the base as a whole put on the coaches. Now here we are again. All summer and spring it’s been “how you do something is how you do everything” “Miami is back to work” we are about to see who gets weeded out Oct 8 and what steps have been implemented starting in the offseason with how this team responds. We just saw ATM with a similar putrid performance in sept, rally and reel off 2 straight wins..how this team responds will tell a lot about this iteration of Miami. Mentally this team was not resilient on Saturday. We are gunna learn a lot with how they come out
 
I'd consider what Mario did coming to Miami with a QB on a 6 game 300 yard streak is pretty much the same thing.
Man ngl I was always cautiously optimistic on TVD coming into this season. A lot of what we are seeing these last 2..or 3 games, we saw it in stretches last szn. Lashlee schemed alot of things up and set him up for success. He’s a young QB learning a new west coast type of system and doesn’t look comfortable at all. In every game so far.
 
I'd consider what Mario did coming to Miami with a QB on a 6 game 300 yard streak is pretty much the same thing.
Except that Urban Meyer didn't play and live in Utah or Gainesville.
 
You don't want to rebuild a team with bunch of portal players. If you want your culture to take hold , you need to have players from their freshman year. Attitude is a huge problem with this team. We don't want players who like to win, we need players who want to win. More so You have to have players who can't stand to lose, who won't tolerate it. You soon will see,if you haven't already who has the fire and who doesn't. Ken Dorsey reminded everyone yesterday the fire of someone who can't stand to lose.
Georgia is finding those kids in the deep south. Georgia, Tennessee, the Carolinas, the Florida panhandle. They have one Miami kid in the '23 class.
 
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