Chicken Or The Egg

Chicken Or The Egg

Rellyrell

Comments (165)

As we were losing to FIU, we had Holley dancing on the sidelines. The embodied the complacent attitude among the players and clearly showed a lack of desire to win.
To this day, I’m still baffled as to what that guy was thinking in doing that.
 
I refuse to swallow the “it takes time” pill right now. After rewatching the game I’m even more ****ed off and down about how the season is going to play out.

What has been allowed to transpire with this offense is criminal. Yes I know WRs are below average, but to look that poor vs MTSU is insane. What has happened to TVD is gross. The more people at Michigan I talk to about Gattis the more queasy I get. He makes the offense soooooo hard, he hasn’t changed from his time at Michigan.

Big picture, for everyone that sites and example of a rebuild that took multi years, I can bring up teams like Kansas, Kansas State, Washington St, SMU with Lashlee, etc where really good coaches are able to produce tangible improvements immediately. This notion that “everything always take time” to see improvement is garbage.

Mario completely whiffed with Gattis. Completely

Unless Ponce takes over playcalling duties the offense is going to be severely held back and will constantly look like pulling teeth.

Go ahead and neg me, but if we’ve learned anything over the years watching Dorito, Enos, Manny, Lashlee run game, is how to spot a crap system

I’m hoping Mario actually searches all levels of CFB this off-season to replace Gattis as OC. Gattis and the Notre Dame OC are pretty disappointing names on Mario’s list
 
You are missing @Rellyrell ’s point. All the players that have come before have had a hand in creating the culture of the team. On balance the players over the last 15 years have contributed to a soft, lazy, weak, entitled mindset.
No, you and Relly are missing the context of the post I was replying to. The post I was replying to was asking what players we have would play at MTSU.
 
I don’t necessarily disagree. My issue is that who says you have to get worse to get better? Right now this team is worse than the one Manny Diaz coached last year. We knew the roster had holes. We knew there was a culture issue. Instead of working with what was available on hand, this staff went out and totally rearranged philosophies that were working last year just so they could put their persona stamp on it.

I’ve been saying it since they hired the offensive staff. If you want to eventually transition into a team that controls the line of scrimmage with the ground game, fine. But at least wait to get the players capable of that before going wholesale on offensive changes. It’s more square pegs in round holes because we have coaches too stubborn to step back from what they WANT to do and instead of doing what the team does best
 
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I don’t necessarily disagree. My issue is that who says you have to get worse to get better? Right now this team is worse than the one Manny Diaz coached last year. We knew the roster had holes. We knew there was a culture issue. Instead of working with what was available on hand, this staff went out and totally rearranged philosophies that were working last year just so they could put their persona stamp on it.

I’ve been saying it since they hired the offensive staff. If you want to eventually transition into a team that controls the line of scrimmage with the ground game, fine. But at least wait to get the players capable of that before going wholesale on offensive changes. It’s more square pegs in round holes because we have coaches too stubborn to step back from what they WANT to do and instead of doing what the team does best
Well said.

The whole notion that any new coach must take 3 steps back before taking one forward is ridiculous. This is not a new NFL franchise. Mario walked into a job where he already had a high quality qb, good Te's and safety's. His RB's and DL aren't half bad either. This isn't a rebuild. He isn't starting from the ground.

Mario had the tools to win Saturday. And if there are still "CULTURAL" issues on this team, they are all on Mario now. Year 1 is the year to flush out the kids that aren't "Mario" kids. The portal makes that even easier.

With that said, I knew that we'd drop one unexpected game this year I just didn't think it would be MiddleTennesseeSt.
 
If anymore of you clowns want to compare Mario to Saban year 1 I’ll punch you

Saban was in nfl for 2 years prior to joining ; Not Mario

Saban inherited a 6-6 Bama team with bums at QB ; not Mario - see TVD ; Miami 7-5 year before

Bama wasn’t ranked going into 2007 ; not Mario - Miami ranked 15 ; Miami unanimously picked to win ACC Coastal based on ACC coaches voting

2007 recruiting class - Bama had a few 4 stars and the rest were 3 stars or unranked; Not Mario ; top 15 class and added several key pieces in the transfer portal



Stop the excuses
 
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If he wasn’t an idiot off the field we’d be talking about him up there with saban
Completely agree. Without a doubt, he's a Top 10 CFB coach of all time. Won't break the Top 5 because of his antics. We're also verrrryyyyy lucky that he did not want to stay at UF. Had he done so, they'd probably won at least another ship or two.
 
That’s a one in a million comparison though. That’s the exception. Mario’s loss to a horrible MTSU team isn’t the same as Sabans because he was already a national title winning coach. Just like people here used the same excuse after Manny lost to FIU. It’s low hanging fruit on the excuse tree.

I agree with your premise and still belive Mario is the guy I just have that same questions about him now as I did when he was hired. Offense and qb’s have been an issue and still look to be.

Btw let’s not act like we had unrealistic goals for this team , 8-9 wins and winning the coastal is more than fair. We were picked to win the coastal for christs sake. Now y’all are just setting the bar low and acc mediocrity. We play in a bad conference and even worse division.

Mario has his flaws, absolutely; no one is arguing that. However, he’s not learning on the job, & I’m not writing him off after a bad loss. He’s done enough at UO to show that. Let’s not forget Kirby’s 1st yr struggling w/ FCS Nicholls St blowing a 12-pt lead in the 4th, surviving 26-24, at home.

Also, I vehemently disagree w/ u about winning The Coastal as an expectation in yr 1 isn’t unfair. And miss me w/ we were picked to win The Coastal, my guy. WE’VE BEEN PICKED TO WIN THE COASTAL EVERY YEAR SINCE 2004! LMAO! Why would that pressure be heaped on to a coach stepping in to a pile of chit, when we’ve won this bytch ONE FONKY TIME IN 18 YEARS?! And that came in, “YEAR 2” of Richt’s tenure. Richt’s resume & accomplishments chit’s on Mario’s.

That’s the delusion I’m talking about, especially when reports all camp was our WRs can’t get separation & are having dropsies. So MTSU WRs can get separation on these CBs, but ours can’t? And u wonder y this place drives me nuts w/ illogical reasoning, along w/ back n forth, flip flop views.
 
If anymore of you clowns want to compare Mario to Saban year 1 I’ll punch you

Saban was in nfl for 2 years prior to joining ; Not Mario

Saban inherited a 6-6 Bama team with bums at QB ; not Mario - see TVD ; Miami 7-5 year before

Bama wasn’t ranked going into 2007 ; not Mario - Miami ranked 15 ; Miami unanimously picked to win ACC Coastal based on ACC coaches voting

2007 recruiting class - Bama had a few 4 stars and the rest were 3 stars or unranked; Not Mario ; top 15 class and added several key pieces in the transfer portal



Stop the excuses
There are about 15 other successful CFB HCs you could compare our situation to. Mario inherited a 7-5 team, much like the 6-6 team Saban inherited. He's brought in one partial class, and we've been picked to win the coastal because we always happen to beat the one team that should win it this year (Pitt).

It's not an excuse to point out that literally every other successful coach in CFB right now had a rough first year. The only one-year miracle worker in the game, while inheriting a terrible program, is Urban. Just look at the records of other successful CFB coaches in year 1, Saban excluded:
  • Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
  • Dave Aranda: 3-7
  • Sam Pittman: 3-7
  • Matt Campbell: 3-9
  • Lane Kiffin: 5-5
  • Josh Heupel: 7-6
  • Luke Fickell: 4-8
  • Brian Kelly: 8-5
  • Kirby Smart: 8-5
  • James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
  • P.J. Fleck: 5-7
  • Mel Tucker: 2-5
  • Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
  • *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6
Will Mario work out here? TBD, but I'm hopeful. Overall though, there's a clear trend of solid HCs having issues in Year 1. We can't determine our trajectory in game 4 of this new regime.
 
There are about 15 other successful CFB HCs you could compare our situation to. Mario inherited a 7-5 team, much like the 6-6 team Saban inherited. He's brought in one partial class, and we've been picked to win the coastal because we always happen to beat the one team that should win it this year (Pitt).

It's not an excuse to point out that literally every other successful coach in CFB right now had a rough first year. The only one-year miracle worker in the game, while inheriting a terrible program, is Urban. Just look at the records of other successful CFB coaches in year 1, Saban excluded:
  • Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
  • Dave Aranda: 3-7
  • Sam Pittman: 3-7
  • Matt Campbell: 3-9
  • Lane Kiffin: 5-5
  • Josh Heupel: 7-6
  • Luke Fickell: 4-8
  • Brian Kelly: 8-5
  • Kirby Smart: 8-5
  • James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
  • P.J. Fleck: 5-7
  • Mel Tucker: 2-5
  • Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
  • *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6
Will Mario work out here? TBD, but I'm hopeful. Overall though, there's a clear trend of solid HCs having issues in Year 1. We can't determine our trajectory in game 4 of this new regime.

I don’t disagree with you.

The difference is our fan base wasn’t hoping for a year 1 miracle, we just didn’t expect to get completely owned by MTSU and the offense and TVD to regress so badly

Essentially it’s context

Who knows, maybe they get things calibrated going into conf play, but I don’t expect that to happen with Gattis being involved
 
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I don’t disagree with you.

The difference is our fan base wasn’t hoping for a year 1 miracle, we just didn’t expect to get completely owned by MTSU and the offense and TVD to regress so badly

Essentially it’s context

Who knows, maybe they get things calibrated going into conf play, but I don’t expect that to happen with Gattis being involved
I think your concerns are on point, and there's a high chance Mario needs to make a change at OC at the end of this season. We'll know more as conference play unfolds. It's a disgrace and unacceptable that we lost to MTSU.

For what it's worth, Kirby needed the luck of the heavens to beat an FCS team in Year 1 of his regime. Granted, they won, but there is a trend of good coaches having issues in Year 1. Honestly, as frustrating as this sounds, we'll really know the trajectory of this program under Mario by the end of Year 2.
 
If anymore of you clowns want to compare Mario to Saban year 1 I’ll punch you

Saban was in nfl for 2 years prior to joining ; Not Mario

Saban inherited a 6-6 Bama team with bums at QB ; not Mario - see TVD ; Miami 7-5 year before

Bama wasn’t ranked going into 2007 ; not Mario - Miami ranked 15 ; Miami unanimously picked to win ACC Coastal based on ACC coaches voting

2007 recruiting class - Bama had a few 4 stars and the rest were 3 stars or unranked; Not Mario ; top 15 class and added several key pieces in the transfer portal



Stop the excuses

So u really wanna tell a half *** story, my boy? Lol. So Bama’s team was composed of the class of 2007, huh? Lol. Come on, my brotha.

Y do u guys always tell half stories to fit agendas? If u don’t fck w/ Mario, say that…but stop telling half stories, & u know I fcks w/ u, but come on babbbby!

So this is the FULL story of the 2007 Bama team:

The Bama team was composed of part of the ‘04 class, ‘05, ‘06, & ‘07 classes. They were ranked
2004 - 20th
2005 - 15th
2006 - 12th
[This was the core]
2007 - 12th

That 07 team went a combined 22-15 in the previous 3 yrs, including 10-2 w/ a NY6 bowl win in 2005.

Again, this is not a comparison between Saban & Mario, but to act as Saban didn’t have enough talent to beat a 6-6 ULM team, who’s combined record 15-31 record over a 4 yr stretch (MTSU 22-26 during this same stretch) is laughable.

Furthermore, Bama wasn’t ranked against ULM b/c it was the 11th game of their season & they already showed the pollsters they sucked ***. There’s a reason we barely moved up the polls when there was turmoil w/in the top 10, & there’s a reason we plummeted to 25th after losing to TAMU.
 
So u really wanna tell a half *** story, my boy? Lol. So Bama’s team was composed of the class of 2007, huh? Lol. Come on, my brotha.

Y do u guys always tell half stories to fit agendas? If u don’t fck w/ Mario, say that…but stop telling half stories, & u know I fcks w/ u, but come on babbbby!

So this is the FULL story of the 2007 Bama team:

The Bama team was composed of part of the ‘04 class, ‘05, ‘06, & ‘07 classes. They were ranked
2004 - 20th
2005 - 15th
2006 - 12th
[This was the core]
2007 - 12th

That 07 team went a combined 22-15 in the previous 3 yrs, including 10-2 w/ a NY6 bowl win in 2005.

Again, this is not a comparison between Saban & Mario, but to act as Saban didn’t have enough talent to beat a 6-6 ULM team, who’s combined record 15-31 record over a 4 yr stretch (MTSU 22-26 during this same stretch) is laughable.

Furthermore, Bama wasn’t ranked against ULM b/c it was the 11th game of their season & they already showed the pollsters they sucked ***. There’s a reason we barely moved up the polls when there was turmoil w/in the top 10, & there’s a reason we plummeted to 25th after losing to TAMU.

That’s not the point that I’m making and you’re bringing in components that are unrelated to the argument

I’m saying that fans need to stop citing Saban at Bama Yr 1 in comparison to Mario at Miami Yr 1 to justify Miami underperforming thus far

The expectations and resources in place for Mario Yr 1 vs Saban Yr 1 aren’t comparable
 
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That’s not the point that I’m making and you’re bringing in components that are unrelated to the argument

I’m saying that fans need to stop citing Saban at Bama Yr 1 in comparison to Mario at Miami Yr 1 to justify Miami underperforming thus far

The expectations and resources in place for Mario Yr 1 vs Saban Yr 1 aren’t comparable

How can I’m bringing up things that aren’t relatable when it’s the full picture?

So now Bama’s resources aren’t comparable to Mario’s resources? I could’ve sworn this whole narrative about Saban is he’s only successful b/c of being at “Baga.”

Look my boy, got love for u, but imma let u argue w/ urself on this one; but for the record, the whole premise is that even great coaches who step into a bull chit situation, have had bull chit records & losses in yr 1. But I’ll let ya’ll carry on as is
 
There are about 15 other successful CFB HCs you could compare our situation to. Mario inherited a 7-5 team, much like the 6-6 team Saban inherited. He's brought in one partial class, and we've been picked to win the coastal because we always happen to beat the one team that should win it this year (Pitt).

It's not an excuse to point out that literally every other successful coach in CFB right now had a rough first year. The only one-year miracle worker in the game, while inheriting a terrible program, is Urban. Just look at the records of other successful CFB coaches in year 1, Saban excluded:
  • Dabo Swinney: 4-3 (19-15 going into season #3)
  • Dave Aranda: 3-7
  • Sam Pittman: 3-7
  • Matt Campbell: 3-9
  • Lane Kiffin: 5-5
  • Josh Heupel: 7-6
  • Luke Fickell: 4-8
  • Brian Kelly: 8-5
  • Kirby Smart: 8-5
  • James Franklin: 7-6 (14-12 going into season #3)
  • P.J. Fleck: 5-7
  • Mel Tucker: 2-5
  • Kyle Whittingham: 7-5
  • *Bonus* - Pete Carrol: 6-6
Will Mario work out here? TBD, but I'm hopeful. Overall though, there's a clear trend of solid HCs having issues in Year 1. We can't determine our trajectory in game 4 of this new regime.
Great post., but I disagree with the Urban 'miracle work' at OSU.

Jim Tressel was 66-11, with 2 BCS NC appearances, in the six seasons prior to the scandal that forced him to resign and the dismissal/suspension of a few key players. Do you seriously think he would have gone 6-6 in 2011 had there been no scandal?

Urban Meyer was a great CFB coach but the mythology around him grows every season.
 
How can I’m bringing up things that aren’t relatable when it’s the full picture?

So now Bama’s resources aren’t comparable to Mario’s resources? I could’ve sworn this whole narrative about Saban is he’s only successful b/c of being at “Baga.”

Look my boy, got love for u, but imma let u argue w/ urself on this one; but for the record, the whole premise is that even great coaches who step into a bull chit situation, have had bull chit records & losses in yr 1. But I’ll let ya’ll carry on as is

We are splitting hairs versus each other.

I just want the Saban Yr1 comparisons to stop being used so frequently as a justification for what’s going on at Miami now.

It’s not directed at you specifically just in general
 
I see the same excuses being made for mario that i made for golden.

Golden made **** hires and was stuck to his defense.

Mario made **** hires and is apparently stuck to this style offense.
.
If mario doesn't change he will go out just like golden.

Fire steele and gattis at year end and adapt to modern college football.
 
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