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Zalon'tae Hillery & Kai-Leon Herbert

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Hstokes1447 said:
No writing them off at all just wanted to see more. Hillery was the scout team MVP, so I was expecting after a full season in the system with the buzz around him that a true freshman wouldn’t be able to step on campus and take his spot.

I for one will never write a kid off in his second season. I am simply stating that I would have liked to see these two kids own those back up spots and allow Campbell and Reed to redshirt or at best only play mop up duty.

I want to see championship depth on this offensive line and the guys in that 2017 class are going to be very important I’m creating that. Once again not writing them off just wanted to see more.
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You said they were the biggest disappointments of camp. Both are coming off injuries and it goes to show how talented those freshman are. It’s encouraging seeing freshman come in and snag spots from older guys. Didn’t mean to sound like a **** or anything, but I’m just tired of seeing people raggin on two talented guys who are in their second years in the program coming off injuries.

Dykstra on the other hand is probably going to be buried on the depth chart and I’ve been saying he shouldn’t have been offered a spot here. He will transfer within the next year or two. That’s the only guy in his second year I’m writing off.
 
Mklein13 said:
You said they were the biggest disappointments of camp. Both are coming off injuries and it goes to show how talented those freshman are. It’s encouraging seeing freshman come in and snag spots from older guys. Didn’t mean to sound like a **** or anything, but I’m just tired of seeing people raggin on two talented guys who are in their second years in the program coming off injuries.

Dykstra on the other hand is probably going to be buried on the depth chart and I’ve been saying he shouldn’t have been offered a spot here. He will transfer within the next year or two. That’s the only guy in his second year I’m writing off.
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Hillery is not coming off of injury. Yeah he is transitioning to guard from tackle but Scaife is making a transition as well. I do know how talented Sacife is, the kid dominated every camp and the All American game.

But Hillery has been here for a full season, has been through a full cycle of college level conditioning, won the scout team player of the year award and yet Reed is ahead of him. Before Reed was listed as the 2nd team right guard it was Scaife in that spot. So that means Hillery was behind two true freshman at right guard. Not saying the kid is a JAG or writing him off simply saying I am disappointed that he isn’t ahead of a kid who has only been on campus for 3 months.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
These two guys are the biggest disappointment of camp IMO. It’s not encouraging at all to see them passed by the true freshmen so easily. I know Herbert wasn’t the strongest kid coming out of high school and Hillery is making the transition from tackle to guard.

I still believe they will develop and eventually contribute on this team. I was just hoping to see those guys in the two deep this season and limit the amount of true freshman that would have to see the field on the offensive line.
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Pretty sure they are both 2nd team.
 
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I don't think anyone should be written off this early in their careers, in Hillery's case he is still developing, finding his proper position and as long as he's putting in the work I'm not concerned.

Herbert has/had injury concerns from the jump, its one of the reasons we were able to get him so late in cycle when Michigan backed off. He hasn't been able to put those injuries behind him up until this point and obviously that has stunted his development. He needs to put together a healthy 24 months allowing him to build strength instead of rehabbing injuries. If he can do that t he'll contribute. But we knew about those question marks when we signed him so patience will be key.

Mahoney and Jones have been written off in numerous threads over the past few years, they have both managed to work themselves onto the starting unit. Every kids growth curve is different.

Brown (even before the back injury) was a JAG. Watching Campbell dominate him in that tug of war was the beginning of the end for me.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
Hillery is not coming off of injury. Yeah he is transitioning to guard from tackle but Scaife is making a transition as well. I do know how talented Sacife is, the kid dominated every camp and the All American game.

But Hillery has been here for a full season, has been through a full cycle of college level conditioning, won the scout team player of the year award and yet Reed is ahead of him. Before Reed was listed as the 2nd team right guard it was Scaife in that spot. So that means Hillery was behind two true freshman at right guard. Not saying the kid is a JAG or writing him off simply saying I am disappointed that he isn’t ahead of a kid who has only been on campus for 3 months.
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He messed up his foot in the beginning of the season last year and DMoney just said he’s nicked up a bit idk if it’s from the previous injury. Hold judgement till next season on these two.
 
Donaldson surpassed Jones last year, but now Jones will be starting this year. Thomas surpassed Cager last year, but now Cager will be starting alongside Thomas and Richards. Redshirt freshmen and Sophomore's get surpassed all of the time by incoming freshmen. That does not mean we should write them off, especially when we are talking about offensive linemen.

When freshmen are good enough to garner/command immediate playing time, it's a win-win situation.

First off all, it means that the freshman who earned his way on the field, is typically uberly talented. Brevin Jordan is a prime example. When he signed, everyone and their momma knew he would be a starter this year. Irvin getting injured just expedited the inevitable.

Secondly, it's a win on the recruiting trail when recruits see freshmen getting burn if they are good enough. Lastly, when freshmen are good enough to play immediately, it buys time for others to develop instead of being force into action before they are ready.
 
CFLCane said:
Herbert has been battling an injury and is behind physiccally because of it.

Hillary never struck me as a significant contributor by year2.

I think overall people expect way too much out of OL too early. Playing 1st and 2nd year guys at all should be rare.
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Also I read Herbert has an ongoing shoulder problem and cannot do much if any heavy lifting for upper body S&C so important for a O-lineman. Hillary is just raw and needs development. I recall high school YouTube of him being posted showing him benching 370, power cleaning 320 and squatting parallel with 500 at 287 pounds now he is over 300 in our S&C. So must be much stronger now so he has the strength just needs to develop technique wise and find a position.

Go to March 7, 2016 for the twitter videos showing him squatting and power cleaning.
Zalontae Hillery (@zalontae99) | Twitter
 
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Donaldson and Reed pass the "gradma test", where even your grandmother who knows nothing about football can see they're so freaky they are in a class by themselves. As long as they keep their weight down, those two are made for this game and will be playing on Sundays. J Campbell is a close third there. Scaife is a step below that, but his HUDL highlights were insanely good, and he backed that up with outstanding play in the AA game. St Louis' and Mahoney's HUDLs were nearly as impressive. Of all our current OL, those were the 6 I knew would be in the two-deep as true freshmen. We recruited really, really well last class with Campbell, Reed and Scaife.

But to OP's original thread, you got an AH-developed kid like Herbert who has been here an extra year, and you just expect him to hold off the freshmen at least through camp. And Hillery was Scout MVP. It really is unexpected they've been passed up so quickly. I think it's a fair question to ask if that means the second-year kids are underperforming expectations, or the new guys are overperforming already-high expectations. From what D$ writes, I'm going to infer it's a little bit of both in that Herbert (especially hampered by injury) and Hillery need more time while the '18 kids are just that good.
 
Of course it's too early to write guys off - especially OL. It can still be said how much it would have helped us if one of those guys - especially Herbert - would have won a T or G job. As one example, assuming Herbert would have made even a St. Louis-type leap as a RS Frosh, we'd likely be looking at:

LT St. Louis
LG Jones/Mahoney
C Gauthier
RG Donaldson
RT Herbert

Holding out hope based on what insiders have more consistently seen, but I'm still concerned about our G/RT play. Especially during the first half of the season.
 
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Trenches takes a few years of having not only the talent and skill but just the pure man strength you need...

I don't like to write off any trench player until their RSJR/JR year... at that point its quite obvious you should A.)get what is expected and B.) be able to physically do what is expected

/bar milo would be an example of this
 
Hstokes1447 said:
These two guys are the biggest disappointment of camp IMO. It’s not encouraging at all to see them passed by the true freshmen so easily. I know Herbert wasn’t the strongest kid coming out of high school and Hillery is making the transition from tackle to guard.

I still believe they will develop and eventually contribute on this team. I was just hoping to see those guys in the two deep this season and limit the amount of true freshman that would have to see the field on the offensive line.
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Relax heatstoke...
 
I played NAIA ball with an OT that was 6'8" 285. He didn't play football until his Senior year in high school. He had played basketball and was actually pretty quick with good feet. He started as a freshman, was an All American as a junior and got a free agent tryout with the KC Chiefs. He'd never lifted weights early and was just a late starter (and we didn't have the best coaching in the NAIA) - if he had started football even another year earlier it would have helped. So there is hope for guys, its why they will recruit O-lineman on size, wingspan and footwork even if they haven't yet developed that killer instinct.
 
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I don’t understand the theory behind “waiting for them to develop” or “geez, they are only redshirt freshman”. Well, the dudes passing them on the depth chart are FRESHMAN! So when do they expect to ever transition to playing time? In four years? Cause the dudes in front of them are younger. Lol.

I’m not stressing cause obviously the freshman can play. But I’m not holding out a ton of hope if they can’t keep the youngins from passing them up so quickly. But hopefully they do. We will need the depth at some point.
 
I just want enough guys to play well enough for us to do all the winning. I literally don't care who steps up.
 
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