What ConstitutesAcceptable Progress for the 2021 Season?

[423Hurricane]

Thats the the thing. He’s mad good replacement decisions but his initial hires were mostly not that good. Hickson and Field are good. Stroud was ok.

I voiced my perspective in his initial hires when the subject was discussed here not too long ago.

First time HC with a limited amount of time to put a staff together. Manny didn’t hesitate to address the elephant in the room which was obviously the O. He canned the entire O staff and hired an OC who many on this board thought was the hottest one on the market. “We snookered the goat Saban”. He left his serviceable D intact except hiring his replacement that many here believed to be an up and comer DC.

After the debacle the O was in ‘19, Manny again didn’t hesitate to get rid of the failed OC and hired what many here thought was an even better hire than the first. He again left his D intact as it was still serviceable.

‘20 saw his D regress to a point changes were necessary. Again, Manny didn’t hesitate to make changes to upgrade the D staff. Those changes are yet to prove whether or not they will bear fruit but are very promising.

Bottom line is that results on the field - wins and losses - will ultimately decide Manny’s fate. He’s not hesitated to make changes to improve his chances of success. That’s positive progress but again, his success will be measured in wins and losses.

I believe 10-2 is a very reasonable expectation given the roster talent and the additions to the D coaching staff. 3 losses is not firable but would be disappointing. Any more than 3 losses and Manny’s pants should be on fire.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

I guess we’ll see. You think nome of the people who vote will change their view when their version of ‘acceptable’ doesn’t pan out?

I have no idea, but with the number of heel-diggers that we have on this board, I don't expect that many will ever admit that their predictions were wrong.

I don't know if this is a generational thing, but I don't understand some of the extremism by certain people. I started at UM in 1986, I've been there for all but one championship. I have the highest of high expectations for our team, and I desperately want us to win again. But I also understand that it can take a few years to build something up, so I don't think that I have unrealistic expectations.

Therefore, if we hold the line on the improvements we made in 2020 AND we fix the UNC debacle, I see no reason why we cannot be 11-1 in the regular season. That's not a "slurp" or a "mope", it's just an observation by a person who has watched UM football incredibly closely for 35 years.

That's all. Occasionally, I disagree with some people and I'm not afraid to mix it up (verbally). But I'm not going down the "15-0" rabbit hole, nor will I predict 8 or 9 wins (which I think is ridiculous). And it actually might be more realistic to think we have a better shot at catching Alabama flat-footed in Game 1 than to beat Clemson in Game 13, but that's just my personal opinion.

 

[Bender]

Went with the third one. If we go 12-2 and perform how it was written, it would be good progress.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Thats the the thing. He’s made good replacement decisions but his initial hires were mostly not that good. Hickson and Field are good. Stroud was ok.

Don't fall for the banana in the tailpipe, @RVACane . We shouldn't forget that Beta Blake made that rapid-fire decision, without pursuing or interviewing any other HC candidates.

I don't know if Manny will become the next Nick Saban or the next Lou Saban (1980s era Lou Saban), but if anyone should be blamed for any future failure, it should be Beta Blake.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I’m trying to establish some standards and baselines. If a coach in Manny’s situation doesn’t make acceptable progress then he should be gone. He didn’t make acceptable progress last year with UNC or the year before with FIU. People (not you) want to talk about program standards and be hardline & that’s fine if that’s how they feel. But they should be fair and consistent, whatever their take is.

I think the first and 5th groups are off base. The 1st group has an unrealistic standard of progress for 2021. The last group is too lenient on what’s acceptable progress.

I’m going to end up doing another poll to work through this more bluntly so that there’s no doubt.

There’s a reason I voted in Group 4 for Acceptable Progress. It’s because that’s my honest tolerance level for saying he needs to go. your tolerance level isn’t 14-1 or better but you voted in Group 4.

If a coach who has been here as long as Manny has, isn’t making Acceptable Progress, he needs to go. If you think someone is an idiot for firing a coach going 10-2 then you shouldn’t select the 14-1/15-0 group as acceptable progress.

I don’t understand why you and @puertorricane both selected Group 1 instead of a more reasonable expectation for 2921, 15-0 notwithstanding. Of course I know neither of you would call for Manny’s firing if he went 10-2 but the point of this whole exercise is to get baselines not for blustering or ceiling setting goals.

I see what you’re saying, and I would be ****ed as fūck with a 10-2 or 9-3 regular season record (mostly 9-3), but he’s not getting fired for that, nor would it be realistic to expect him to get fired with two regular season losses.

 

[Go Canes!!]

You’re right, but We’ll be spinning our wheels anyway if he wins 8 or more games, maybe even 7, because he won’t be fired. they wouldn’t fire richt after 7 wins and wouldn’t fire golden after only 6. Clemson or the aggies are going to have to beat us by 50 next year for this admin to take any action. This is the new Miami...

Lmao.

We’re on our 7th HC since 2000. All we do is hire, fire and retire them.

 

[423Hurricane]

Lmao.

We’re on our 7th HC since 2000. All we do is hire, fire and retire them.

I’ve said recently and I’ll reiterate here. I’m pulling for Manny not necessarily for his sake but for the sake of the program.

 

[Go Canes!!]

I’ve said recently and I’ll reiterate here. I’m pulling for Manny not necessarily for his sake but for the sake of the program.

Of course.

 

[RVACane]

You haven’t voted yet. Support your local RVA.

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@TheOriginalCane
@OriginalCanesCanesCanes

I’m not sure I fit any of the choices. I want us to win the Coastal and finish Top 15 with double-digit wins.

Ok. I brought his over to the thread. I can resolve this easy:

If we win the Coastal and have a 10-2 regular season, including a 2-3 score loss to Bama and a close loss to UNC or anyone else in the Coastal, should Manny keep his job for another year?

I’m assuming we win the bowl game as part of that but with opt outs and all that, I think guys like @HighSeas are right about maybe not factoring it into decisions. The nature of bowl games has changed a lot.

 

[DMoney]

Ok. I brought his over to the thread. Two questions:

1. If we win the Coastal and have a 10-2 regular season, including a 2-3 score loss to Bama and a close loss to UNC or anyone else in the Coastal, should Manny keep his job for another year?

Of course. That would be our best season in 17 years.

 

[RVACane]

Of course. That would be our best season in 17 years.

Ok cool. What if it’s the same result - 10-2 but our loss is to UNC, and even though it’s a close loss, UNC wins the Coastal and we are 10-2. Should Manny keep his job for another year?
@DMoney is the Coastal the key to Manny staying? In other words if we go 10-2 and 2nd in the Coastal, should Manny be gone or get another year?

 

[Go Canes!!]

Ok cool. What if it’s the same result - 10-2 but our loss is to UNC, and even though it’s a close loss, UNC wins the Coastal and we are 10-2. Should Manny keep his job for another year?

You realize that under this scenario our only two losses will likely be to two undefeated or at worst 1 loss teams ?

 

[RVACane]

You realize that under this scenario our only two losses will likely be to two undefeated or at worst 1 loss teams ?

Yes. And that is a reason why I voted in Group 4 while other friends of mine voted in Group 1. That’s acceptable progress to me.

 

[DMoney]

Ok cool. What if it’s the same result - 10-2 but our loss is to UNC, and even though it’s a close loss, UNC wins the Coastal and we are 10-2. Should Manny keep his job for another year?
@DMoney is the Coastal the key to Manny staying? In other words if we go 10-2 and 2nd in the Coastal, should Manny be gone or get another year?

I’ll be upset if we don’t win the Coastal.

With that said, it’s not even worth discussing firing Manny off a 10-win season. That tells me people have lost perspective. We’ve had one double-digit win season in 17 years, and our coach won National Coach of the Year when that happened.

 

[JD08]

Lmao.

We’re on our 7th HC since 2000. All we do is hire, fire and retire them.

Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis are proven commodities, but since Butch Davis left for the NFL and then ended up as HC at UNC and FIU we have:

Fired - Larry Coker - HC for UTSA when they started their football program.
Fired - Randy Shannon - position coach and DC at UF and UCF. Enjoyed a few minutes as interim HC at UCF.
Fired - Al Golden - became a position coach in the NFL
Retired - Mark Richt - Living the bud life on the ACC Netowrk.

This is not the track record of a school that picks good coaches. Should Manny fail, this is where you have to start to fix the problem.

 

[RVACane]

I’ll be upset if we don’t win the Coastal.

With that said, it’s not even worth discussing firing Manny off a 10-win season. That tells me people have lost perspective. We’ve had one double-digit win season in 17 years, and our coach won National Coach of the Year when that happened..

Pretty much. You’re in Group 4 though a bad loss to UNC or anyone else not named Bama or Clemson would be a tough pill to swallow.

 

[Go Canes!!]

Howard, Jimmy, and Dennis are proven commodities, but since Butch Davis left for the NFL and then ended up as HC at UNC and FIU we have:

Fired - Larry Coker - HC for UTSA when they started their football program.
Fired - Randy Shannon - position coach and DC at UF and UCF. Enjoyed a few minutes as interim HC at UCF.
Fired - Al Golden - became a position coach in the NFL
Retired - Mark Richt - Living the bud life on the ACC Netowrk.

This is not the track record of a school that picks good coaches. Should Manny fail, this is where you have to start to fix the problem.

HC hires are a crapshoot. For every success I’ll show you a dozen failures.

 

[JD08]

HC hires are a crapshoot. For every success I’ll show you a dozen failures.

We had 4 good ones, and the 4 bad ones. It's time for another good one.

 

[TheOriginalCane]

We had 4 good ones, and the 4 bad ones. It's time for another good one.

How many schools have hired THREE CONSECUTIVE COACHES who each won national championships? I'm fairly certain that it is unprecedented. And Butch would have made it four, if he had stayed.

 

[RVACane]

How many schools have hired THREE CONSECUTIVE COACHES who each won national championships? I'm fairly certain that it is unprecedented. And Butch would have made it four, if he had stayed.

Am I getting it right???