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MMA UFC Fight Island

Empirical Cane said:
Does Masvidal give Usman more of a contest with a real training camp? Same result?

Watching I felt Usman imposed his strategy on Madividal and Gamebred had no answer. Not sure if more camp changes result by much.

Now though, perhaps Masividal regroups and comes back a different fighter.

Will there be #2?
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With a full camp his wheels might not have fallen off as quick giving him a little longer for that punchers chance. But I still see the same result.
 
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OldhamA said:
Not asking him to stand and trade with Masvidal.

Am asking him to try and advance his position from stalling him against the cage. If you're such an elite wrestler, get him on the ground and GnP him.

Instead we were treated to 25 minutes of shoulder shrugs and foot stomps.

Like I said, it is what it is, but Usman's the only loser after last night. Dana White won't be offering him more money as the casual fans think he's boring af.
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He's the champ. He'll continue getting paid a lot more than he would if he started losing.

If you don't like the rules, then your beef is more with White than it is Usman. If the rules permit him to fight the way he fights and grind out wins like a boa constrictor, than that's what he'll continue to do until someone whips him or they change the rules.
 
The Franchise said:
He's the champ. He'll continue getting paid a lot more than he would if he started losing.

If you don't like the rules, then your beef is more with White than it is Usman. If the rules permit him to fight the way he fights and grind out wins like a boa constrictor, than that's what he'll continue to do until someone whips him or they change the rules.
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Fighter pay is a big topic of discussion in the ufc these days and most agree fighters don’t get paid enough.

That said the big difference is when you have a title.

When you are the champ you get points on the PPV buys - may be a little different now with the espn plus, but the point is the same. Money goes up exponentially as champ. I would expect Marty and any other champ to do whatever it takes to hold on to that belt.

Marty would have never made it in pride. They would have been fining him more than they paid him for inactivity.
 
Ecush said:
Fighter pay is a big topic of discussion in the ufc these days and most agree fighters don’t get paid enough.

That said the big difference is when you have a title.

When you are the champ you get points on the PPV buys - may be a little different now with the espn plus, but the point is the same. Money goes up exponentially as champ. I would expect Marty and any other champ to do whatever it takes to hold on to that belt.

Marty would have never made it in pride. They would have been fining him more than they paid him for inactivity.
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Exactly. Which is why so many championship bouts over the years tend to be pretty boring compared to undercard bouts. It's the nature of the beast to hang onto what you have. Guys get more cautious and look to win more than necessarily entertain and look for the spectacular finish bonus.

You're right on Pride too. Totally different game, which is why I say the beef these guys have is with White, not Usman. Usman is doing what the rules allow him to do. If they want to initiate more action, it's pretty easy to tweak the rules to do that.
 
The Franchise said:
You're making silly arguments just because you don't like Usman's style. In your mind, Usman should abandon what works for him flawlessly so far just to be more entertaining and potentially start losing. He's probably going to make more money as an undefeated champ than he would if he decides to abandon what works for him and gets knocked out 3 times in a row in Tough Man Contest slugfests.

I have a feeling the Shields story goes beyond his style. Shields was boring, not all that good, and I think he was flirting with another promotion, which is a much quicker way to get on White's bad side than being an undefeated champion, who overwhelms opponents with his wrestling. Fitch has been in and out of the UFC forever, and was never at Usman's level.
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Usman can do what he wants. He’s the one stepping into the cage.

But let’s not pretend it was a brilliant performance by putting on our “purist” caps. Nothing happened. Neither guy took damage.

This wasn’t Marc Coleman beating a striker’s brains out with dominant wrestling. It was mostly a stalemate that rightly went to Usman on Octagon control.
 
HurricaneHauk said:
Everyone should fight like Chuck Lidell and not know how to take a **** by the time they’re 40

If you can’t appreciate what Usman did them you’re not a fan of the sport
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It doesn’t have to be one or the other.

Ever see Kalib Starnes vs Nate Quarry? Kalib just ran away from him the entire fight. He didn’t take damage so did that make it a good fight or him a good fighter?

The big issue I have with Usman is that he basically stalled the fight away. When fighters go to the ground the ref stands them up after a period of time if the top fighter is not working to improve their position or inflicting damage. In other words by rule you can’t lay and pray your way to victory. Usman worked the clinch game very well. But his dirty boxing was mediocre and he didn’t drop for a double more than a couple times. In other words it was vertical lay and pray.

He won the fight within the rules as they exist, with the exception of leading with the crown of his head and opening up two significant cuts due to head butts.

I agree with franchise that there should be consideration to using the colored card system like in the days of pride. Refs would warn you for inactivity and if you didn’t pick it up they took away part of your purse on the spot. Made for more exciting fights.
 
The Franchise said:
You're making silly arguments just because you don't like Usman's style. In your mind, Usman should abandon what works for him flawlessly so far just to be more entertaining and potentially start losing. He's probably going to make more money as an undefeated champ than he would if he decides to abandon what works for him and gets knocked out 3 times in a row in Tough Man Contest slugfests.

I have a feeling the Shields story goes beyond his style. Shields was boring, not all that good, and I think he was flirting with another promotion, which is a much quicker way to get on White's bad side than being an undefeated champion, who overwhelms opponents with his wrestling. Fitch has been in and out of the UFC forever, and was never at Usman's level.
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seems to me the guy is just working the system, it's like butch's players faking injuries

legal? sure. Entertaining? LUL
 
Jedi Master Cane said:
Or we can simply choose to ignore him, disrespect him, and do the ultimate thing that hurts and that's not not pay to watch his foot stomping, 6 shoulder inch pl


History also remembers the 2002 Ohio State championship and the 1972 Russian olympic basketball team gold medal.....slippery slope my friend.
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He can have the strap but the dude isn't going to be a big time money maker with bouts like that. It's about ppv buys.
 
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The Franchise said:
He's the champ. He'll continue getting paid a lot more than he would if he started losing.

If you don't like the rules, then your beef is more with White than it is Usman. If the rules permit him to fight the way he fights and grind out wins like a boa constrictor, than that's what he'll continue to do until someone whips him or they change the rules.
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Same as people that would complain about Mayweather's boxing style. He attracted fans and hype though by being a complete scumbag out of the ring so it wasn't as much a focus as it will be if Usman lasts a while as champ. I have zero problem with him winning the way he is but then again I only watch these fights illegally.
 
HurricaneHauk said:
Everyone should fight like Chuck Lidell and not know how to take a **** by the time they’re 40

If you can’t appreciate what Usman did them you’re not a fan of the sport
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I think we should just eliminate the weight classes. Consider going bare knuckle too.
 
The Franchise said:
How they win matters to you. It doesn’t matter to them.

Good thing about MMA is guys don’t typically stay on top for prolonged periods because it’s such a grind. So Usman will meet his match soon enough, and you guys can hate on the next champ for not taking enough risks with his money.
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Granted, it's all subjective. They don't care about my opinion and I don't care about theirs.

But, the majority of people don't like or respect the way he fights. It's a sport that's driven by PPV sales and gamesmanship plays a large factor in a guys success. I know his life cycle won't be long given the nature of the sport, but just like with Floyd Mayweather, I'm never going to be a fan of a guy who exploits a subjective judge based scoring system.

To each their own.
 
Jedi Master Cane said:
Granted, it's all subjective. They don't care about my opinion and I don't care about theirs.

But, the majority of people don't like or respect the way he fights. It's a sport that's driven by PPV sales and gamesmanship plays a large factor in a guys success. I know his life cycle won't be long given the nature of the sport, but just like with Floyd Mayweather, I'm never going to be a fan of a guy who exploits a subjective judge based scoring system.

To each their own.
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The thing about the fight game is it's about as pure as it gets. If guys don't like how Usman fights, then they should beat him instead of crying about him being boring. If they think that their exciting game is better than his boring game, then beat him. Take his title, and make him go away.
 
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The Franchise said:
I'm always going to be a fan of a guy like Usman who beat up a MAGA-loid, so I'll be right there with you lol'ing.
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Colby gave him a better fight than anyone else he has faced thus far. I want to see them run it back soon
 
DMoney said:
Usman can do what he wants. He’s the one stepping into the cage.

But let’s not pretend it was a brilliant performance by putting on our “purist” caps. Nothing happened. Neither guy took damage.

This wasn’t Marc Coleman beating a striker’s brains out with dominant wrestling. It was mostly a stalemate that rightly went to Usman on Octagon control.
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I never called it a "brilliant performance." Now you're just creating straw men. I said you didn't like it because it didn't entertain you, but that's not Usman's ultimate goal. He wants to, first and foremost, keep his strap and keep raking $$.

What was the best way to do that against a vicious striker with a dicey gas tank? Stand and trade with him and get KO'd? Or do what you do best, which also happens to be what Jorge does worst?
 
MMA like all sports is for the purpose of entertainment.

Every fighter has 2 objectives when they enter a fight.

1) Win
2) entertain

Usman, will struggle to become a massive star because his style is boring and Overly conservative.

Last night he had a chance to steal some fans by taking advantage of a tired and gassed Masvidal. But instead he chose to play it safe and win on points.


He’s a dominant winner. But many fans do Not consider him a dominant fighter.

When you see his name on the list of guys who’ve won 12+ in a row. He’s one of the only ones that surprises you to see he’s there. Which tells you all you need to know.
 
The Franchise said:
The thing about the fight game is it's about as pure as it gets. If guys don't like how Usman fights, then they should beat him instead of crying about him being boring. If they think that their exciting game is better than his boring game, then beat him. Take his title, and make him go away.
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It's not about anyone crying, it's simply a subjective thing where MANY people don't feel the way he fights is truly fighting, at least not in the "hand to hand" combat spirit of things.

I'm fully aware that some people consider it pure...but those are in the minority. Like i said before this is a purely subjective conversation. What isn't subjective is the impact this is going to have on future PPV sales with anything involving Usman. It doesn't matter which side of the argument you are on, that is not debateable.

You ever seen the movie Rounders? There's a great line by Malkovich's Russian character in that movie....."Respect is all you have in the morning". The issue here is alot of people don't respect Usman's style. Whether or not that is "pure" is up for debate, but perception is reality and last night's fight wasn't good for the sport.

Mind you, I have a background in wrestling. I understand and appreciate Usman's skills, I just don't think the way he approached the fight last night in a UFC setting was wise.
 
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