Too much offense

rayray

Sophomore
Joined
Dec 3, 2012
Messages
1,034
So many Canes fans are focused on the defense that they aren't seeing they key to winning football games today. Saban outright told everyone before the season started and Devonte Smith winning the Heisman put an exclamation point on it. Offense wins championships. The idea of shutting down a high powered offense is an anachronism. A good defense doesn't keep a top offense off the scoreboard, it stops the bleeding enough that your own high powered offense can keep the lead. The bigger problem in the Clemson game wasn't that Miami's defense gave up 42 points to Clemson. The problem was that Miami didn't score 43 points. I didn't expect Miami to beat UNC 27-10. I expected us to win 47-42. How did UF come within one bad clock management decision of beating Bama in the SEC championship game? You can't say UF caught Bama by surprise like Ole Miss might have. Offense. Pitts and Toney are unbelievable weapons and then they got contributions other WRs as well. Miami has one reliable WR. ONE. Mike Harley is a solid #2 WR but he isn't a game breaker. This is the school that produced Michael Irvin, Andre Johnson, and Santana Moss. What happened to our WR room? This year Miami had two good TEs (including the #1 TE in the country out of HS), but they weren't utilized effectively in tandem. When Jordan was out, Mallory got the ball. When Jordan was back, Mallory didn't get the ball. It doesn't matter if Miami gets Venables as DC next year, we still don't have any WRs and Lashlee isn't as inventive an OC as I expected. That's going to be responsible for more wins/losses than the defense.
THIS ^^^^^

our fanbase complains endlessly about baker and the defense but when you watch clemson and ohio state give up 600 yards in playoff games it becomes clear that the key to winning in today's game is to have the most unstoppable offense you can possibly put together. the defense was not great vs clemson and was an abomination vs UNC but the offense didn't step up to the plate either and that's the bigger problem.

we need better play calling, better QB play, better line play, better WR play. the constant, endless discussion about our linebackers is focusing on the wrong thing. the good news is that from a hiring and recruiting perspective we appear to be headed in the right direction offensively.
 

QuattroCane

Junior
Joined
Jul 21, 2016
Messages
3,580
So many Canes fans are focused on the defense that they aren't seeing they key to winning football games today. Saban outright told everyone before the season started and Devonte Smith winning the Heisman put an exclamation point on it. Offense wins championships. The idea of shutting down a high powered offense is an anachronism. A good defense doesn't keep a top offense off the scoreboard, it stops the bleeding enough that your own high powered offense can keep the lead. The bigger problem in the Clemson game wasn't that Miami's defense gave up 42 points to Clemson. The problem was that Miami didn't score 43 points. I didn't expect Miami to beat UNC 27-10. I expected us to win 47-42. How did UF come within one bad clock management decision of beating Bama in the SEC championship game? You can't say UF caught Bama by surprise like Ole Miss might have. Offense. Pitts and Toney are unbelievable weapons and then they got contributions other WRs as well. Miami has one reliable WR. ONE. Mike Harley is a solid #2 WR but he isn't a game breaker. This is the school that produced Michael Irvin, Andre Johnson, and Santana Moss. What happened to our WR room? This year Miami had two good TEs (including the #1 TE in the country out of HS), but they weren't utilized effectively in tandem. When Jordan was out, Mallory got the ball. When Jordan was back, Mallory didn't get the ball. It doesn't matter if Miami gets Venables as DC next year, we still don't have any WRs and Lashlee isn't as inventive an OC as I expected. That's going to be responsible for more wins/losses than the defense.
I'm going to hold off on Lashlee until he gets at least a summer and spring under his belt here. Some things did baffle me, but now he knows what he has to work with and who he can and cannot trust...time will tell.
 

canes732

Crafty veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
2,777
I’m not going to complain about lack of parity. College football has always been like that, and it’s the reason many of us are Canes fans.

But the game is suffering because the rules are too favorable to the offense. We’ve seen the “best offense of all time” three years in a row. Illegal man downfield doesn’t get called and DBs have no legal options against WRs.

Anybody else dissatisfied with the direction of the game?
I hate all the rules in favor of offense been like that for years. Although I’m a fan of the targeting rules. They give the offense too much and handcuff the defense way too much. Need to let DBs grab WRs again sick of them pushing off with no call and a db can’t put a finger on them. Also hate that PI is called when a QB throws a **** ball and the DB “doesn’t let the WR come back to the ball” **** that throw a better pass don’t bail out the offense for a **** throw god I hate the rules
 

AL CANE

Freshman
Joined
Nov 3, 2011
Messages
1,030
Listen....
We can blame the rule book all we want. And as a defensive coach, I'd love if that was the sole reason we're getting out a$$es kicked, but it's not.

Offensive coaches have always been more innovative than defensive coaches. They set the tone and trends. Defensive coaches REACT.
Offensive guys invent new concepts, sometimes using loopholes, and it's up to defensive coaches to figure them out. This often take a couple years or sometimes longer.

What we saw last night had absolutely NOTHING with a favorable rule book.
We saw an OC (Sark) put his pipe balls deep into Ohio State's defense.
And we saw an Ohio State DC do himself no favors by having a LB carry the best WR in college football up the field. (Smith's long TD catch)

Also add in the fact that offensive skill today is light years better than it's ever been. More and more elite athletes are stepping towards the offensive side of the ball. Often times defensive coaches, starting at the youth level, are left with the "leftovers". The kids who didn't have enough ball skills to play offense. Some of the throws and catches these guys are making today are simply ridiculous. There is no coverage scheme to defend some of this sh!t.

Are RPO's a cheat code? Yes. But RPO's aren't what's killing today's defenses. I don't think one single big play last night came on an RPO.
OC's don't even go to the RPO well that often anyway. If they run 70 plays in a game, maybe 10 are RPO's.

These are just the highlights...but nothing on here was a result of the favorable rule book.
Agree 100%. What we saw last night was a masterclass by Sark. You combine that with elite talent and that gives you the result. Nothing in the rulebook, including RPO, had anything to do with what Bama did last night or all year. When elite players combine with elite coaches you get dominance. Its as simple as that.
 

canes732

Crafty veteran
Joined
Feb 4, 2013
Messages
2,777
I'm going to hold off on Lashlee until he gets at least a summer and spring under his belt here. Some things did baffle me, but now he knows what he has to work with and who he can and cannot trust...time will tell.
I believe he will be fine. Hopefully with more reps our guys will make his offense look like it did at SMU
 

Dghustla

Junior
Joined
Jan 29, 2012
Messages
3,361
I’m not going to complain about lack of parity. College football has always been like that, and it’s the reason many of us are Canes fans.

But the game is suffering because the rules are too favorable to the offense. We’ve seen the “best offense of all time” three years in a row. Illegal man downfield doesn’t get called and DBs have no legal options against WRs.

Anybody else dissatisfied with the direction of the game?

i feel like i’mwatching tennis.

which team is going to break serve?
idk what can be done to fix it.
 

prg3Kane

Sophomore
Joined
Apr 13, 2018
Messages
557
When Ray Lewis was being interviewed around the league around the time of his retirement and last Super Bowl run, he was asked about the evolution of the game. He remarked that defenses were being put in almost impossible situations. They're not given anything and offenses get all the breaks in the rule book.
 

bshaw28

Junior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
2,531
Also add in the fact that offensive skill today is light years better than it's ever been.

This is what I think it is more than the rules. The top teams have absolutely stacked their Skill position players

2018 Clemson
QB - Lawrence (#1 overall pick)
RB - Etienne (1st/2nd)
WR - Higgins (2nd), Ross (1st/2nd talent), Rodgers (3rd Rd - projecting)

2019 LSU
QB - Burrows (#1 overall pick)
RB - CEH (1st)
WR - Jefferson, Chase (1st), Marshall (1st/2nd)

2020 Alabama
QB - Jones (1st)
RB - Harris (1st/2nd)
WR - Smith, Waddle (1st), Metchie (Will go by Round 3 - projecting)


That's a 1st Round QB with 3 other 1st/2nd round RB/WR's playing in the same offense. By contrast.....

Miami (Last 15 NFL Drafts - drafted Rounds 1-3)
QB - None
RB - Duke (3rd)
WR - Dorsett (1st), Moss (2nd), Hankerson (3rd)


Each of the last 3 National Champions has porbably had more NFL Talent than a Miami all-star team from the last 15 years.
 

clg003

Junior
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
1,858
I’m not going to complain about lack of parity. College football has always been like that, and it’s the reason many of us are Canes fans.

But the game is suffering because the rules are too favorable to the offense. We’ve seen the “best offense of all time” three years in a row. Illegal man downfield doesn’t get called and DBs have no legal options against WRs.

Anybody else dissatisfied with the direction of the game?


The pass interference rules are just FN stupid. My old man bball trick is controlling guys with my hand on their hip. Removes about 20 years of age off of anyone's quickness. Now its called like 10% of the time. And they let you hold a dudes hand down. Its really unbelievable. That int in our game against UNC was basically receiver rape and the goons announcing, act like it was a good play. Thats PI every single down 8 years ago. They need to go ahead and give Miami rings for that bullshit PI call against OSU with the way they have changed the game now. Its just completely changed the game.
 

CANEMC

All-Big East
Joined
Jan 25, 2017
Messages
4,652
Just remember that offense puts the butts in the seats. Call it lean mean, mean green. That almighty dollar.
 

TemplarCane

Anti-Postmodernist / Critical Theory Denier
Joined
Nov 12, 2015
Messages
7,261
Would we care if we had Bama's offense? OSUs? Clemson's? LSU 2019?

Miami is a decade or more late to the party and it is up to the coaching staff to catch up.
 

skyman

Senior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
5,904
I agree 100%. Between college and NFL, I don't know how many times, I've seen WRs' push to get separation and it not get called at all. Then when Running backs lower their hear to run someone over, it's a great play. LBs or DBs do it and they get ejected. I like the fast pace game and high scoring offense. I think you can still have that without making it a penalty to breath on WRs
Ive seen rb and wr lower their head, create contact and defender still gets ejected.. its a mess
 

Liberty City El

Dejazmach
Joined
May 14, 2016
Messages
18,161
Blame it on the fringe football fans whom they have geared all these offensive changes for.
It’s because of gambling & fantasy football.

DraftKings.com & all the sports betting sites have influenced sports across all leagues to become more offensive ladened because offense is the easiest metric to measure & gamble on.

More productivity= More bets, More bets= More money.
 

skyman

Senior
Joined
Nov 6, 2011
Messages
5,904
So many Canes fans are focused on the defense that they aren't seeing they key to winning football games today. Saban outright told everyone before the season started and Devonte Smith winning the Heisman put an exclamation point on it. Offense wins championships. The idea of shutting down a high powered offense is an anachronism. A good defense doesn't keep a top offense off the scoreboard, it stops the bleeding enough that your own high powered offense can keep the lead. The bigger problem in the Clemson game wasn't that Miami's defense gave up 42 points to Clemson. The problem was that Miami didn't score 43 points. I didn't expect Miami to beat UNC 27-10. I expected us to win 47-42. How did UF come within one bad clock management decision of beating Bama in the SEC championship game? You can't say UF caught Bama by surprise like Ole Miss might have. Offense. Pitts and Toney are unbelievable weapons and then they got contributions other WRs as well. Miami has one reliable WR. ONE. Mike Harley is a solid #2 WR but he isn't a game breaker. This is the school that produced Michael Irvin, Andre Johnson, and Santana Moss. What happened to our WR room? This year Miami had two good TEs (including the #1 TE in the country out of HS), but they weren't utilized effectively in tandem. When Jordan was out, Mallory got the ball. When Jordan was back, Mallory didn't get the ball. It doesn't matter if Miami gets Venables as DC next year, we still don't have any WRs and Lashlee isn't as inventive an OC as I expected. That's going to be responsible for more wins/losses than the defense.
QFT! All of this, Lashlee bought us to spread but he is still running basic stuff just really fast hoping to tire teams out.. Its early 2010 type spread stuff, we will take it now but unless you keep cant miss wr from heading to bama you wont beat top teams.. First drive against clemson and offense was dead in water for whole night.. like oh **** inside zone not gonna work, fold tent and call it a night..

The plays Sark did to move his player around and get him the ball no matter what the defense did.. its levels to this
 

TruCane81

Junior
Joined
May 9, 2019
Messages
1,933
rpo has changed the game, but one rule that has to be enforced is illegal lineman downfield ... literally gives the defense no edge at all

This.

The gurus have figured out defense. No more 3 yard cloud of dust bullshit.

When you spread the field and run quick hitting plays where runs and passes look almost exactly the same, it makes life hell for the defense. Add a mobile qb to force spies and there are one on one match ups everywhere in man and green grass against zone.

I just wish they would be more consistent with pass interference and holding. Targeting is Bullshyt. Defenders shouldn’t be penalized for having their head up and leading with the shoulder and helmet contact to the body on a tackle should never be called. It just gives more leeway to control outcomes and make sure the “right” team wins.
 

TimeB0mb

Junior
Joined
Nov 29, 2015
Messages
8,917
The rules are perfect for a school like Miami.
QFT! All of this, Lashlee bought us to spread but he is still running basic stuff just really fast hoping to tire teams out.. Its early 2010 type spread stuff, we will take it now but unless you keep cant miss wr from heading to bama you wont beat top teams.. First drive against clemson and offense was dead in water for whole night.. like oh **** inside zone not gonna work, fold tent and call it a night..

The plays Sark did to move his player around and get him the ball no matter what the defense did.. its levels to this

I thought a clever Air Raid OC would design the Air Raid around double TE set. As far as I know, there hasn't been a TE-based Air Raid. Leach was once asked about his lack of TEs in the Air Raid and he said he thought they could be the ultimate weapon, but he usually found there was too much of a compromise so he didn't feel a need to recruit them. If they are going to catch a lot of passes, it's more useful to have a WR. If going to block, better to have an extra OL. Of course, he's never had the #1 TE and #8 TE in the country on the same roster. I thought Lashlee would be slicing and dicing with Mallory and Jordan. Then after Wiggins and Pope dropped almost every pass over and over again and it became obvious that we only had one quality WR, I thought a smart OC would go to 22 personnel. 2 TEs, 2 RBs, and Harley. Go fast and have those guys lining up everywhere. It would drive a DC crazy. Going to put a CB on Jordan? No chance. Slow LB going to keep up with Rooster when he shifts out of the back field to the slot? No way. As you said, it seemed Lashlee just did basic spread stuff. Miami was 10 years behind the times to switch to the basic spread, and now we've switched to a spread that is 10 years behind the new style of spread O that the best teams are running. Fans are barking up the wrong tree and focusing on the defense when that's not what wins games anymore. A championship-caliber defense in football today is one that keep the UVAs and VTs to under 20 points and the Clemsons and Bamas to under 40. You have to be able to win shootouts and have an OC that figures out ways to get the ball into the hands of his best playmakers. Maybe it was just me, but it seemed like the offense got more dynamic when Perry was QB at OK St. Maybe Lashlee got spoiled with having a playmaker like King and didn't think he had to be as creative.

If this was 2014 and Miami was looking for a new DC, then yeah, I think it would make a big difference in the W/L column. Now I think the impact of a high quality DC is greatly exaggerated. Believe it or not, I think the rules play into Miami's favor. I figure it was going to be tough for Miami to field a defense that could stop the roided up players from Bama and UGA. Fortunately it doesn't have to. But Miami shouldn't have any problem filling out the offensive roster with S Fl WRs that can catch and run 4.4s or better. Guys like Tutu Atwell. Ranked #728 in the country out of HS. There are going to dozens of guys like him in S Fl flying under the radar. A WR coach with an eye for talent should be locking those guys up and with the rules today, those little WRs don't have to worry about getting bodied by big CBs like in the past. Miami should be putting up 50+ in its sleep. And Baker's D, or whoevers D, doesn't have to do much except make sure that the other team doesnt get to 50.
 
Last edited:

caneinorlando

Recruit
Joined
Dec 12, 2014
Messages
14,844
I’m not going to complain about lack of parity. College football has always been like that, and it’s the reason many of us are Canes fans.

But the game is suffering because the rules are too favorable to the offense. We’ve seen the “best offense of all time” three years in a row. Illegal man downfield doesn’t get called and DBs have no legal options against WRs.

Anybody else dissatisfied with the direction of the game?
I've been dissatisfied since forever
 

paksat

Junior
Joined
Oct 18, 2014
Messages
4,401
I can't stand "modern" football or "modern" basketball

and I used to play basketball for a living, so let that sink in. I don't even watch the nba, ever. I've watched maybe 4 games in 7 years, it's just horrible to watch now. That guy that said it's like watching kids play where they run down and hoist a 3 pointer is dead on.

as for football, I can not stand spread offenses. It's like a completely different version of football, gone are the days of a running back taking over a game it feels like. I used to love watching eddie george among others in the league pound it away. Now the physicality of the game is gone, it's a joke.
 

ThomasM

Senior
Joined
Jul 9, 2014
Messages
13,272

This will be legal in the next few years. Defences will have no, ummm, shot at making a tackle.
 
Top