Tired of The SEC/ACC Bag Game?

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

And again, if they recognize that income then what is the issue? If the house is worth 50k, booster pays 500k, and they recognize 450k then where is there a problem? Also, if you sell your house and buy a new house within 12 months you do not need to recognize that gain.

The fund can say we think this area is going to regentrify and we are investing in the area. So long as the gain is recognized then I’m still not seeing any issue.

Go ask your attorney what he thinks.

Make sure it’s one familiar with tax laws, money laundering, and criminal conspiracy.

Anyway what you’re suggesting is so obvious, and generates records, that nobody would actually do it that way.

 

[Fluffhead]

Go ask your attorney what he thinks.

Make sure it’s one familiar with tax laws, money laundering, and criminal conspiracy.

Anyway what you’re suggesting is so obvious, and generates records, that nobody would actually do it that way.

I am a tax attorney and got my LLM in Tax from Miami. Appreciate the advice though.

 

[JgDaCane]

No I love it.

 

[JgDaCane]

Bottom line we need to start putting guys into the league in the 1st round.

 

[UMFarArcher]

OP means well but his post is drowning in naïveté.

First of all, the type of investigation he’s talking about, and the resources required, would exceed a couple of million dollars in a month or two. It’s laughable he thinks such a small amount will go so far.

The type of investigation he’s calling for would stop dead without subpoena power, where would that power generate from in a private investigation?

These are just a couple of the issues, there are many others. Suffice it to say that the approach is incredibly naïve and simplistic.

I’m not saying this to offend OP, but the suggestion and solutions are juvenile beyond belief.

Appreciate OP’s optimism and enthusiasm, though.

Once again, you're the one that's naive. Very much so.

Get your mind out of the Judicial System methodology. They have certain limitations - procedures - parameters they must remain within - generally accepted ethics, all oriented toward what will and what won't be allowed in court.

You're talking Boy Scouts. I'm talking Special Ops. This isn't Law Enforcement - clock punchers! If you can't understand the basics - you really don't understand this process, nor the scope of it. Law Enforcement is allowed to lie - you think they're good at it?

A couple million dollars a month? No way! We're not talking about a ****load of attorneys sitting on their collective asses at a table, billing $800-$1200/hour asking repetitive questions, scribbling in their legal pads, thinking of ways to split hairs on legalities, hiring CPA's, sending subpoenas, and all that crap! These guys are like bounty hunters - **** - they are. They're after the bounty they'll receive. They also love the chase. Outsmarting their opponents - beating them in spite of what their opponents thought was very clever.

Who do the better attorneys turn to - to find out things? Investigators - who do that kind of stuff for a living - and not too worried about their ethical image. Now they DO have a Day Rate. Financial Investigators have Day Rates - but their real money comes from recoveries. Percentages. That's their rush. And they also make money for their time as witnesses - and follow-on consultations. And you better believe they have friends in the IRS. IRS agents LOVE a good case with the homework already done - that makes them look good.

These investigative guys are pricks. Have more shortcuts, multiple assets, as well as some very clever methods of finding money and assets the legal system just cannot grasp. Because that's what they do.

So forget the "normal" long, drawn out, painfully slow, incremental step by step - very expensive and generally non-productive legal methods as followed by law enforcement - these guys cut right to the chase. The bounty demands no wasted time, no wasted effort.

 

[UMFarArcher]

Interesting. But at the end of the day, wouid anyone who matters care? I dunno.

The schools would - as these activities are "all the fault of independent boosters."

You lose wins, you lose bowls, you lose recruitment allotments - that hurts. We know all too well. We're Miami.

As a whole, Division 1 of the NCAA has 152 schools. You don't think the other 140 schools won't care?

 

[1mg of Epi]

The schools would - as these activities are "all the fault of independent boosters."

You lose wins, you lose bowls, you lose recruitment allotments - that hurts. We know all too well. We're Miami.

As a whole, Division 1 of the NCAA has 152 schools. You don't think the other 140 schools won't care?

The NCAA is nothing more than its member schools, and it doesn’t seem like those member schools have pushed for policing of the bag games.

They all know what’s happening. These schools don’t need an investigation to shine on a light on the issue. They know, and don’t seem to care.

Now if the court of public opinion can be turned, then something might happen.

 

[Cajuncane]

There’s a reason you don’t have schools turning in the Bama's,UGA’s and Clemson’s of the world.EVERYONE is doing this to some degree.

So is the school that gives a kid a 500 dollar handshake and his parents a couple airline tickets to come see him play anymore or less guilty of wrongdoing than say Bama who is handing out new chargers like jelly beans???

The answer is no and THIS is why you don’t have the schools that don’t have the wherewithal to hand out new cars but can only afford the 500 handshakes turning BAMA in.....guilty is guilty and as the old saying goes “ people in glass houses don’t throw rocks “..

So unless a neutral entity , say the IRS or Justice Dept. ,start digging into this CFB is going to continue on to a situation where you will have a few select teams vying for the NC with the other 125 or so P5 schools trying to catch lighting in a bottle one year to sneak into the playoffs.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

I am a tax attorney and got my LLM in Tax from Miami. Appreciate the advice though.

So you’re saying it’s legal to hide a gift by grossly overpaying for a house...is that you’re legal opinion?

I just want to make sure we’re on the same page.

 

[UMFarArcher]

There’s a reason you don’t have schools turning in the Bama's,UGA’s and Clemson’s of the world.EVERYONE is doing this to some degree.

So is the school that gives a kid a 500 dollar handshake and his parents a couple airline tickets to come see him play anymore or less guilty of wrongdoing than say Bama who is handing out new chargers like jelly beans???

The answer is no and THIS is why you don’t have the schools that don’t have the wherewithal to hand out new cars but can only afford the 500 handshakes turning BAMA in.....guilty is guilty and as the old saying goes “ people in glass houses don’t throw rocks “..

So unless a neutral entity , say the IRS or Justice Dept. ,start digging into this CFB is going to continue on to a situation where you will have a few select teams vying for the NC with the other 125 or so P5 schools trying to catch lighting in a bottle one year to sneak into the playoffs.

The speed limit on the interstate is violated by everyone - to varying degrees - but when you see four or five pulled over getting tickets - it seems that speeding diminishes a bit.

They know they can't get everyone - so they go after those who are really pushing things.

And that's sufficient to keep the herd somewhat corralled.

 

[Cajuncane]

The speed limit on the interstate is violated by everyone - to varying degrees - but when you see four or five pulled over getting tickets - it seems that speeding diminishes a bit.

They know they can't get everyone - so they go after those who are really pushing things.

And that's sufficient to keep the herd somewhat corralled.

But in this case the worst speeder ( Saban ) is protected by the law ( Emmett)

 

[Fluffhead]

So you’re saying it’s legal to hide a gift by grossly overpaying for a house...is that you’re legal opinion?

I just want to make sure we’re on the same page.

My legal opinion is you know your *** from your elbow about this and are repeating things you may have seen in a movie.

A gift implies there is no consideration given in return. If a recruit is given $100k in cash for nothing and does not report it, then yes they are committing tax fraud.

If someone gives that same recruit’s father $100k in exchange for the title to their house that they paid $25k for, they do not buy a new house, and do not report income on the gain, then they are committing tax fraud. That is also not a gift.

If they buy a new house within 12 months or report the gain, then there is no issue, no matter how much someone overpaid for it. This is not the mob cleaning money. This is, for IRS purposes, not a gift since they gave something back for the cash.

If there is no laundering of money, the income is recognized, and the taxes are paid then I am not seeing an issue with the IRS. You are not “hiding a gift”. You are paying taxes on the net gain as the law requires.

 

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Gift us really the wrong term in this scenario.

My legal opinion is you know your *** from your elbow about this and are repeating things you may have seen in a movie.

A gift implies there is no consideration given in return. If a recruit is given $100k in cash for nothing and does not report it, then yes they are committing tax fraud.

If someone gives that same recruit’s father $100k in exchange for the title to their house that they paid $25k for, they do not buy a new house, and do not report income on the gain, then they are committing tax fraud. That is also not a gift.

If they buy a new house within 12 months or report the gain, then there is no issue, no matter how much someone overpaid for it. This is not the mob cleaning money. This is, for IRS purposes, not a gift since they gave something back for the cash.

If there is no laundering of money, the income is recognized, and the taxes are paid then I am not seeing an issue with the IRS. You are not “hiding a gift”. You are paying taxes on the net gain as the law requires.

I’m not a tax attorney, obviously. Nor am I pretending to be.

I misused the term gift, because in reality they really aren’t gifts in the legal/tax sense, these are actually payments for services rendered, are they not? Quid pro quo. I give you/your family this money, you play here. Does that not make it income?

 

[U Wouldn’t Understand]

If there is no laundering of money

Your argument is over after you typed those seven words.

Again, this isn’t about taxes, at all. Even if a Title 26 charge was to be recommended (and DOJ Tax approved) as a last resort, you would need at least 500k of criminal tax due and owing (not proceeds, but tax on said proceeds) in most judicial districts to get more than probation.

 

[Fluffhead]

Gift us really the wrong term in this scenario.


I’m not a tax attorney, obviously. Nor am I pretending to be.

I misused the term gift, because in reality they really aren’t gifts in the legal/tax sense, these are actually payments for services rendered, are they not? Quid pro quo. I give you/your family this money, you play here. Does that not make it income?

Well, a couple of points. Every person is allowed up to $14k per year from a “charity” or family member or similar as a gift that is not taxable. So you can extrapolate the money from there if a church or not for profit gives money to a recruit’s family.

Second, it is important to keep IRS rules separate from NCAA. Even if allowed and taxed appropriately under IRS rules, it can still be an NCAA violation.

At the end of the day, other than that gift carve out, you generally have to pay taxes on any money you earn. That’s how the IRS gets mobsters or drug dealers for tax evasion. Even if money is generated illegally and cannot be banked, under IRS laws, you still have to pay taxes on all income earned, subject to exclusions.

Whether it is a bag of cash, paying 10x fair market value for a house, a job to a sibling, or buying a business, you have to pay taxes. So going back to the house example, if Booster gives a recruit’s parents 500k for a house that cost them 25k, and they report it that income and pay taxes on it, there is no IRS issue. Money was recognized and taxes paid. This is likely an NCAA violation, but it is not against the law.

Similarly, if a booster gives a bag of $100k in cash and a recruit declares the income and pays taxes, there is no IRS issue, though clearly an NCAA one.

In any of those above situations, if you don’t pay taxes, the IRS can come after you. Who knows how much of these situations happen or how many wind up having taxes paid. I would think and hope if a booster’s investment fund is smart enough to set up the purchase of a house, they are smart enough to make sure it is done clean and properly taxed at the end of the year but who the **** knows.

Sorry if I came off as a **** or aggressive. It’s been a day. I hope that helped to clarify or answer some questions. Happy to answer as others come up.

 

[Fluffhead]

Your argument is over after you typed those seven words.

Again, this isn’t about taxes, at all. Even if a Title 26 charge was to be recommended (and DOJ Tax approved) as a last resort, you would need at least 500k of criminal tax due and owing (not proceeds, but tax on said proceeds) in most judicial districts to get more than probation.

I will be honest, I don’t touch criminal side of tax and definitely not money laundering. I have done corporate, international, and mainly tax exempt orgs/health care. It sounds like you know more than me on the criminal side of not paying taxes. But generally speaking, if you recognize income/gains and pay taxes, you are going to be clear of issues with the IRS.

 

[Canedude08]

Players will NEVER be paid as long as title IV is in force.Cause if they pay the football players then they have to pay the third sting bench warmer on the women’s lacrosse team also....very few teams in CFB have the revenue to pay ALL sports men’s and women’s.

And letting kids earn on their likenesses is not going to stop anything cause what’s to stop a booster from buying a 1000 jerseys of a kid because he can collect on his likeness.

I don’t think players being paid will ever happen...jmo

Title IX is an EXCUSE. Title IX doesn't stop schools from paying male coaches gigantic salaries, salaries that make a basketball or football coach by far the highest paid state employee in **** near every state in the union. Title IX doesn't cover things like guys owning their own likenesses, guys making money from endorsements, guys being able to monetize their talent outside of the NCAA bubble. If these schools wanted to find a way to fairly compensate student-athletes, they would. The problem is that no one wants to, because that means that a glorified paper pusher wouldn't be a millionaire.

If a booster wants to buy 1000 jerseys of a kid, then so be it. Why? Because these young men should be afforded the same economic opportunities that any other uniquely talented person would be. Frankly, I would love to see the NFL and NBA man up and have legitimate minor leagues for these guys, to where schools wouldn't be subsidizing semi-pro athletics. We are slowly pricing kids out of an economic future, all so some yokels can feel big for 12 fall Saturdays.

 

[section9]

This stuff goes all the way to the U.S. Senate and the House. There’s a reason the FBI and Justice have gone cold turkey on investigations of schools like Bama, Taint, and Clemson. The fix is in politically.

 

[GhostRecon_Cane]

This whole thread and debate has merit...

But Really? Who effing cares. We "The U" is very part in parcel of why this ish happens now........

We have been busted 2x now more or less. And got a little lucky with sorry **** Shapiro.

Miami can't afford in the sense of recruiting to eff up again.

We can do an investigation and lawyer up... But news flash. People, meaning NCAA and the schools mentioned still hate us. Hate us for kicking their schools **** now decades ago.. And the NCAA, wants to really slap the **** out of Miami...

Why?

Because the Canes put such a ripple in College Football in the 80, 90, and somewhat early 00's .. That it is **** near unforgettable.

We are the renegades, Manny knows our past. Hopefully he can be Butch with recruiting and get dudes with an axe to grind.

And once again turn College Football back over.

What is "back over". Athletes that will outwork the competition and have just that...

Mentally more hungry and more willpower. And thus better.

Kids are built differently these days. Too many social media driven egos worries about promoting their “brand”.

 

[JD08]

Lets not forget that US Attorneys have quotas. If it comes down to a case that can be resolved quickly or one requiring a long investigation/trial, they'll choose the low hanging fruit. Ever wonder why people **** and moan about gun violence but gun crime prosecutions don't seem to be a priority?

If it comes down to prosecuting a *** trafficker or something like this, which do think will be forgotten?