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Tired of The SEC/ACC Bag Game?

JD08 said:
There are two ways that could happen.
1. Investigative journalism, which has been in hibernation since Google.
2. Federal investigation, tax fraud or similar. Anyone else would face a wall of litigation from the SEC, NCAA, and likely those providing bags.
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The feds would not scare the sec out of litigation
 
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U Wouldn’t Understand said:
There are Canes everywhere.

The amount of baseless speculation that comes through my office on a weekly basis is astounding and the majority of posts on this forum are consistent with that. If you or anyone else has information to support your claims, then send me a message and it WILL get looked at, immediately. Just because some five star dip**** and his father decide to open up their recruitment, doesn’t mean the USAO is going to open a file and issue grand jury subpoenas; there’s simply too many slam dunks to waste any time on speculation. However, if there is any substance to these claims, I can assure you that there are MANY 1811’s that would love to take this down.

As far as these recruits go, you’re either a Cane or you’re not! There’s no middle ground. It is, always has been, and always will be, all about the U. And until these kids start believing this and have it pounded into their heads, we’re not going to be successful.

If the University of Miami offers you a football scholarship and you truly have to decide between other schools, then we don’t want you, our mistake. Because I can assure you that there is a kid who may not have as many stars but has a **** of lot more dawg in him that will gladly take that offer without hesitation and with the right coaching, will pay higher dividends.

And yea, this is my first post, I was actually here just trying to find some information on tailgating for the UF game........but, who knows, maybe I’ll also be receiving some information on taking down these rogue “podunk” schools that can’t play by the rules. When the time comes, they all shed the same tears and ask for the same forgiveness....just the facts.
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Great first post..welcome
 
CaneDog66 said:
Unfortunately not sure what can be done about these ****roaches and their money. For as long as the athletes remain tagged with “amateur status” and not paid then there are just too many “legal” avenues to funnel funds to players and their families. That, and these kids mostly come from impoverished situations so it’s an easy grab. With no longer any loyalty to decisions made, the only other option I see is paying players a % to their performances on the field, contribution to the university revenue wise, and their marketability. That way if some dolt wants to pay a Mahoney type player who doesn’t contribute to the overall success of the team then so be it, it’s their **** money. But if a player is say at the caliber of Trevor Lawrence, we’ll just like in the NFL...his bank payroll would be greater. Would continue incentives for athletes to continue to push themselves to greatness, remove these snakes from under the grass, and give the kids some resemblance of control over their “brand”.
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Players will NEVER be paid as long as title IV is in force.Cause if they pay the football players then they have to pay the third sting bench warmer on the women’s lacrosse team also....very few teams in CFB have the revenue to pay ALL sports men’s and women’s.

And letting kids earn on their likenesses is not going to stop anything cause what’s to stop a booster from buying a 1000 jerseys of a kid because he can collect on his likeness.

I don’t think players being paid will ever happen...jmo
 
U Wouldn’t Understand said:
There are Canes everywhere.

The amount of baseless speculation that comes through my office on a weekly basis is astounding and the majority of posts on this forum are consistent with that. If you or anyone else has information to support your claims, then send me a message and it WILL get looked at, immediately. Just because some five star dip**** and his father decide to open up their recruitment, doesn’t mean the USAO is going to open a file and issue grand jury subpoenas; there’s simply too many slam dunks to waste any time on speculation. However, if there is any substance to these claims, I can assure you that there are MANY 1811’s that would love to take this down.

As far as these recruits go, you’re either a Cane or you’re not! There’s no middle ground. It is, always has been, and always will be, all about the U. And until these kids start believing this and have it pounded into their heads, we’re not going to be successful.

If the University of Miami offers you a football scholarship and you truly have to decide between other schools, then we don’t want you, our mistake. Because I can assure you that there is a kid who may not have as many stars but has a **** of lot more dawg in him that will gladly take that offer without hesitation and with the right coaching, will pay higher dividends.

And yea, this is my first post, I was actually here just trying to find some information on tailgating for the UF game........but, who knows, maybe I’ll also be receiving some information on taking down these rogue “podunk” schools that can’t play by the rules. When the time comes, they all shed the same tears and ask for the same forgiveness....just the facts.
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The draw of having grandma taken care of is attractive - after all, family is important, or should be. And if one also gets a new set of wheels, that is something any kid would find attractive as well. Or if a kid has a baby, and everything's tight as **** - a bit of scratch can really ease the pressure.

And these forensic investigator guys also ask around - they fish - they get a good idea from others around the kids - what they need. When those needs are addressed - it's not impossible - but difficult to ignore them. You're speaking of honor over a certain benefit. I'd imagine you look forward to your paycheck as well -

And I appreciate the fact that a US Attorney wants to follow through on things - but as you said - you already have plenty of slam dunks.

These independent, forensic financial investigators are in it for one thing - money. Getting their percentage - and they really don't give a **** about the pure legalities of the payoffs. They're looking for their piece of the action - their percentage -and their motivations are much, much different.

Finding hidden or unaccounted for assets and cash - that's just what they do. They're good at it. They too, have their "players" that get information from close associates of the targeted players - as folks talk. Folks notice things - sudden changes of fortune.

When these guys find enough proof - they'll take it to the IRS. It's amazing how the IRS instantly becomes bulldogs if they've missed out on some taxes. And those penalties! Those penalties will eat your *** up! They have regular IRS agents that do taxpayer audits - but they also have their special agents who love making busts. Drug guys are more fun, but to them, money is money. For everyone involved - it's all about the money.

And money is easy to find - if that's your business.
 
KWConch said:
Players will NEVER be paid as long as title IV is in force.Cause if they pay the football players then they have to pay the third sting bench warmer on the women’s lacrosse team also....very few teams in CFB have the revenue to pay ALL sports men’s and women’s.

And letting kids earn on their likenesses is not going to stop anything cause what’s to stop a booster from buying a 1000 jerseys of a kid because he can collect on his likeness.

I don’t think players being paid will ever happen...jmo
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Tried explaining this multiple times. It falls on deaf ears for the overwhelming majority. It's like they just can't possibly grasp the concept of Title IV and the limitations it brings to legally paying players.
 
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Funny thing about money, when billions get threatened people come up amongst the missing. Your "investigators" will either get paid off, run off, or knocked off. This ain't Al Capone, it's football. Deputy Dog on a Miami message board isn't leading the revolution. Better to take the millions and set up a church like Clemson.
 
This whole thread and debate has merit...

But Really? Who effing cares. We "The U" is very part in parcel of why this ish happens now........

We have been busted 2x now more or less. And got a little lucky with sorry **** Shapiro.

Miami can't afford in the sense of recruiting to eff up again.

We can do an investigation and lawyer up... But news flash. People, meaning NCAA and the schools mentioned still hate us. Hate us for kicking their schools **** now decades ago.. And the NCAA, wants to really slap the **** out of Miami...

Why?

Because the Canes put such a ripple in College Football in the 80, 90, and somewhat early 00's .. That it is **** near unforgettable.

We are the renegades, Manny knows our past. Hopefully he can be Butch with recruiting and get dudes with an axe to grind.

And once again turn College Football back over.

What is "back over". Athletes that will outwork the competition and have just that...

Mentally more hungry and more willpower. And thus better.
 
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UMFarArcher said:
You can find a lot - especially by targeting a few "interesting" changes of mind, manifestations of wealth, and some clever investigative tactics. These initial investigative steps are NOT for prosecution by the forensic team - just to get the real skinny on a few targets - and that's where your IRS buddy can put on pressure, request financial records, banking records, etc.

I'm not talking about a CPA firm doing an audit. I'm talking about INVESTIGATORS who specialize in finding money -

They'll know which targets to select - maybe start with some 5 stars? Maybe a 5-star with financial needs? Maybe grandma has financial needs? Maybe some counter offers are made to see what they've already been offered? This isn't for schoolboys.

And always, there's talk. There's no such thing as an absolute secret.
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Interesting. But at the end of the day, wouid anyone who matters care? I dunno.
 
UMFarArcher said:
Everyone knows that the SEC for many decades has had a great method for buying players. Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Mississippi, Mississippi State, Georgia, and others. We all know that Clemson on occasions engages in the Bag Game. Ohio State, Penn State, Texas, Oklahoma, and others also engage.

We get ****ed because everyone it seems tries to raid the State of Florida - and especially top talent in South Florida.

If a few well-to-do UM alumni and a couple key donors put together a couple million dollars - they'd be able to hire a forensic financial investigation team - and that two million dollars or so would finance the martialing costs as well as for a year or two. The Forensic Financial Investigation Team would pick up additional dollars as percentages of IRS dollars they'd find were not paid in taxes, but a reward for finding the additional IRS monies.

That's what they do. They find sudden money - sudden financial gains - sudden asset acquisitions (cars, homes), and once that's found on a few of them, a canny investigator can approach a recipient - lay out the penalties they're about to face, and get some to flip on the who, when, how, how much, and what -

A canny investigator would have some friends in the IRS to assist in making some deals to get further inside the process. In that couple million dollars, it's possible that a few kids and their families would be willing to participate in a reward for sharing what they were offered, and even take an offer under proper surveillance - again - working with the IRS - not local law enforcement. - You get a few of those - and you're cooking with gas.

It would take two or three recruiting cycles to really have some teeth sunk into the process - but once the who, what, when, where, how, and how much is presented - there would be much weeping and gnashing of teeth. Scores and scores of victories would be vacated - hard-to-ignore NCAA violations would require serious penalties - for the school, and possibly for the boosters that provided those funds.

Everyone wants to bi-tch about the bag problem, and wring their hands - but that's how to actually get something done about it. UM itself couldn't be blamed, as UM didn't initiate and pay for the investigation.

That's how you stop it.

Follow the money. Forwards. And backwards.

Specialists.
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There is a reason we don't do that. Its because no one wants other teams digging into our schit. We all have skeletons in our closet.
 
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OP means well but his post is drowning in naïveté.

First of all, the type of investigation he’s talking about, and the resources required, would exceed a couple of million dollars in a month or two. It’s laughable he thinks such a small amount will go so far.

The type of investigation he’s calling for would stop dead without subpoena power, where would that power generate from in a private investigation?

These are just a couple of the issues, there are many others. Suffice it to say that the approach is incredibly naïve and simplistic.

I’m not saying this to offend OP, but the suggestion and solutions are juvenile beyond belief.

Appreciate OP’s optimism and enthusiasm, though.
 
wspcane said:
What happened in basketball? Seriously. LSU's coach was on a wiretap talking about needing to increase their offer to get the deal done and the school fired the AD for suspending him for it. That is almost on par with SMU continuing to pay kids after getting busted because they made a promise. Talk about a lack of institutional control.

I just posted this on the Donnel Harris thread, but the main problem is the handlers, bagmen, alumni are like ****roaches. You squish a few, but there are dozens more waiting to take their place. Give college basketball a year or two and it will be right back to the status quo, if it is not already. Look at Memphis this year. Unless the NCAA really shows intent with things like lifetime bans or show causes for guys like Will Wade or Sean Miller, exactly nothing will change.

Clearly the kids are not going to say please do not give me your money, and about the only recourse there is the IRS saying you did not pay taxes on this unreported income. But that will never happen for a multitude of reasons. And honestly, I think things are way more sophisticated that unmarked bills at this point (buying businesses, gifts from charities, funneling money to charities, giving business contracts, jobs to relatives, etc.).

You talk about a forensic accountant, but if it is a privately held business who hired a recruit's sister as a receptionist and pays her $100k a year. They issue her a W-2, they pay payroll taxes, she pays income taxes... what exactly are they going to do that is a problem.

Another example... recruit's family owns a business worth $50k. An investment fund buys it for $500k. ****** investment and a deductible loss. All taxes are paid. Not much anyone can do there.

This is not even mentioning that each person can get $14k a year from a "charity" without having to recognize that as income.

Paying players is also not going to change anything because this would just be a bonus and way to circumvent the even playing field.

Anyhow, I will be interested to see how they punish these schools with the alleged severe sanctions for 6 schools, because from what I have seen, it will be back to business as usual for CBB, nothing will change in CFB, and honestly, we are probably well beyond the point of return in how sophisticated these booster networks are.
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What will make it change is going after the kids and parents receiving the benefits and scarring any future family with the possibility of jail time.
 
canecrazy23 said:
What will make it change is going after the kids and parents receiving the benefits and scarring any future family with the possibility of jail time.
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Ok that is great in theory. Who is doing that and how? Do you think the IRS in the current political climate is going after low income families? This would only apply to unreported income. That is pennies in the big picture of unpaid taxes.

Now let’s say it is one of the other cases where a sibling is employed or a business or house is purchased and taxes are properly paid. In that case there is absolutely nothing illegal for the IRS to look into. And frankly, there is nothing illegal in making a job offer or purchase offer at a stupid price.

With regards to the FBI thing, I guess maybe if they go down the same path as basketball but again, what changed in CBB? The parents don’t get in trouble, the handlers do, and I would get my last dollar that the 5 who went to jail in college basketball have been replaced by 15 others, like when a mob boss goes down.
 
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wspcane said:
Ok that is great in theory. Who is doing that and how? Do you think the IRS in the current political climate is going after low income families? This would only apply to unreported income. That is pennies in the big picture of unpaid taxes.

Now let’s say it is one of the other cases where a sibling is employed or a business or house is purchased and taxes are properly paid. In that case there is absolutely nothing illegal for the IRS to look into. And frankly, there is nothing illegal in making a job offer or purchase offer at a stupid price.

With regards to the FBI thing, I guess maybe if they go down the same path as basketball but again, what changed in CBB? The parents don’t get in trouble, the handlers do, and I would get my last dollar that the 5 who went to jail in college basketball have been replaced by 15 others, like when a mob boss goes down.
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Yes because low income families are getting audited at a high rate. At least that's what my accountant is saying.
 
For the record, tax evasion would be the last charge recommended. Money laundering would be the applicable charge and the forfeiture provisions that come with it. Engaging in financial transactions with the proceeds of a specified unlawful activity (most likely wire or mail fraud) comes with one of the most aggressive sentencing tables in the code. IRS regularly charges this.
 
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Anyone who seriously investigated the CFB bag game would end up as Burmese python food in the Everglades the moment they uncovered anything of significance. We're talking about exposing some of the most powerful institutions in our country.
 
wspcane said:
What is illegal under federal law in buying someone’s house or business if all taxes are paid, reported, etc.? ****** investments are made every day.
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It’s illegal because what benefit would accrue if it was bought at fair market value, therefore you are talking about a criminal conspiracy to hide a gift in the purchase of a home by significantly overpaying. I see at least two felonies: conspiracy and non-reporting of gifts/income to the IRS.
 
OriginalCanesCanesCanes said:
It’s illegal because what benefit would accrue if it was bought at fair market value, therefore you are talking about a criminal conspiracy to hide a gift in the purchase of a home by significantly overpaying. I see at least two felonies: conspiracy and non-reporting of gifts/income to the IRS.
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And again, if they recognize that income then what is the issue? If the house is worth 50k, booster pays 500k, and they recognize 450k then where is there a problem? Also, if you sell your house and buy a new house within 12 months you do not need to recognize that gain.

The fund can say we think this area is going to regentrify and we are investing in the area. So long as the gain is recognized then I’m still not seeing any issue.
 
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