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This Defense is going to be NASTY

LuCane said:
Was almost certain I'd find this post in the thread. This seeming crusade of yours against Willis (or the people who state Willis had an incredible impact on last year's defense; one disproportionate to any DT we've had in some time) continues to leave me confused, @Liberty City El.

I'm gonna reply each time because downplaying what he accomplished - whether to just even out board extremism or prop up LBs - isn't backed by the numbers or the plays on video. As I've stated dozens of times, I respect the **** out of you as a poster (don't know you off the board). I just don't get this need to bring down Willis' 2018 performance and impact. Is it more about annoyance of posters being exaggerated?

My detailed thoughts (including showing how Willis was consistently effective, rather than the weird narrative now going around that he dominated mostly our crap opponents) on the topic are here: https://www.canesinsight.com/thread...e-defense-ft-d-and-coach-duasso.147640/page-2

Maybe we can reasonably discuss this or we just drop it, who knows.
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I never said he wasn't great, never said he didn't have a great season.

I simply stated that Defense will survive without him. I'm not trying to diminish anything he did nor do I have a crusade against him, he signed with my favorite NFL team the Ravens I'll literally be rooting for him to make the team all training camp.

I just think people have gone completely overboard with the idea that our Defense will suffer because he's not here anymore. The way some of you all describe it you'd think we lost Sean Taylor or something.

With Nesta, Bethel, Ford, Nnoruka, Miller & at least one of the 3 Frosh DT's we will have a good enough rotation at DT to get the DLine as strong as it's been over the last 3 years.

I didn't realize saying our Defense will survive without Willis would cause such an uproar lol my apologies.
 
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Let me ask this would we rather find out our teams weaknesses against a good team in Aug/Sept or against a bowl team in Dec or jan.need to play good teams so our players can see what areas need improving and how mistakes can cost you a game can't get that from a cupcake.it helps in recruiting as well kids want to play against good quality opponent s.86,87&88 those teams played average 6-8 bowl teams plus 4#1 ranked teams.competition brings out the best anyone cause you don't like to fail.
 
Liberty City El said:
I didn't realize saying our Defense will survive without Willis would cause such an uproar lol my apologies.
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I don't know how well the defense will survive without him yet.

But I do know that 32 NFL teams thought they could survive without him on draft weekend.

All those coaches and GMs sure didn't seem to think he was the best DL to come out of Miami since Sapp.
 
Liberty City El said:
I never said he wasn't great, never said he didn't have a great season.

I simply stated that Defense will survive without him. I'm not trying to diminish anything he did nor do I have a crusade against him, he signed with my favorite NFL team the Ravens I'll literally be rooting for him to make the team all training camp.

I just think people have gone completely overboard with the idea that our Defense will suffer because he's not here anymore. The way some of you all describe it you'd think we lost Sean Taylor or something.

With Nesta, Bethel, Ford, Nnoruka, Miller & at least one of the 3 Frosh DT's we will have a good enough rotation at DT to get the DLine as strong as it's been over the last 3 years.

I didn't realize saying our Defense will survive without Willis would cause such an uproar lol my apologies.
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The Nnoruka get will pay dividends, IMO. Experience, and is playing for his first NFL contract. We’re going to get the best out of him.
 
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Liberty City El said:
I never said he wasn't great, never said he didn't have a great season.

I simply stated that Defense will survive without him. I'm not trying to diminish anything he did nor do I have a crusade against him, he signed with my favorite NFL team the Ravens I'll literally be rooting for him to make the team all training camp.

I just think people have gone completely overboard with the idea that our Defense will suffer because he's not here anymore. The way some of you all describe it you'd think we lost Sean Taylor or something.

With Nesta, Bethel, Ford, Nnoruka, Miller & at least one of the 3 Frosh DT's we will have a good enough rotation at DT to get the DLine as strong as it's been over the last 3 years.

I didn't realize saying our Defense will survive without Willis would cause such an uproar lol my apologies.
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No one reasonable is making it seem like that. And, to lump me in with whatever crowd you're referring to is hilarious. You've gone considerably over "the defense will survive without Willis" position in multiple threads. If you'd like, I'll offer links, as I notice it even in arguments you make on behalf of the LBs.

Are there people completely losing it and saying we'll be terrible without Willis? Maybe. I'd like to see you and Brock point some of them out, as I'll gladly rail against that extreme view. I see just as much downplaying his season than anyone saying we'll be a disaster without him.

The rest of us are saying something more nuanced: if you watched what Willis provided last season and looked closely at how he did it, it's unlikely we have anyone currently who'll be able to do the same thing (splash plays, consistency, relative dominance) given the same assignments. That has little to nothing to do with the defense "surviving." Are you saying you believe there'll be no drop-off from Willis' play/production via his replacements?
 
ddann said:
I don't know how well the defense will survive without him yet.

But I do know that 32 NFL teams thought they could survive without him on draft weekend.

All those coaches and GMs sure didn't seem to think he was the best DL to come out of Miami since Sapp.
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Ha. Exactly what I'm talking about. Your argument is his impact last year is seemingly less important (relative to his replacement this year) because NFL GMs behaved a certain way.

Other things affecting Willis' draft stock:
- the guy played one consistent year. period. Even in 2016, he was hurt on and off.
- he was kicked off one team and had to take a leave of absence on another
- he was already 23 years old
- he's an upfield 3T DT, so not super well-rounded and probably, without those extenuating "character" issues, would have topped out at about R3-4.

This is how ya'll framing the argument: either better than every DT since Sapp or "easy replacement, some young kids and a grad transfer will replace him."

None of that commentary about Willis as an NFL prospect lessens his 2018 impact or makes it any easier to replace him with what we've got. Will we "survive?" Sure. I've even said our overall DL will be *more* impactful, but because of the Ends and committee depth. Will it be surprising if a DT committee can equal what he provided? Well, if it takes a committee to do it, doesn't that answer the question?

I'll sit here and continue to defend players who offered us elite play and get downplayed.
 
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Mnhurricane said:
Jaquan cleaned up a lot of potential big plays in our boom or bust scheme. Replace that and it’ll be nasty. A mild drop off wouldnt be the end of the world though all things considered
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For sure, also, our offensive guys are more physically and mentally mature, God Willing our o-line stays healthy, we'll have navaughn going into his third year and in the best shape he's ever been in, than we'll have gaynor going into his 3rd year but redshirted, scaife already proved himself and what he brings to the game,so if he gets any better from a physical standpoint, he's goingto consistently be doing work, he has about the same mindset as ereck flowers, we havent seen that in awhile outta our o--linemen. And we got herbert going into his 3rd year and the 1st time he's been healthy, along with campbell, we are more athletic on the o-line now, just a lil young and inexperienced in 2 spots, 1 tackle spot and one guard spot. But if nelson is able to physically hold up this year that would be impressive. Im saying all that to say, with us going back to having qb's under center, and using the Power-I again, this will definitely help our defense out as well.
 
brock said:
Dominant production but he wasn’t a flawless player and had inconsistencies in his game and that’s been repeated from draft evaluators before the draft who look more deeply in to his film than just stat production. You can see it in games. If he doesn’t get past you with the swim move what happens?
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Who is a flawless player? I’ve yet to see one. And who has ever referred to Willis as a flawless player? He was a consistently disruptive force and, by far, our most effective DT for what Diaz wants in many years.

Willis was a gotdam dog. When he didn’t play, there was a noticeable drop off.
 
Hstokes1447 said:
This Defense will be better this year than it was last year. After watching the highlights of the returning players and new additions I truly believe that this will be the most dominant defense we have seen in years.

Romeo Finley Top Plays 2018


Trajan Bandy Top Plays 2018


Jonathan Garvin Top Plays 2018


Shaquille Quarterman Top Plays 2018


Michael Pinckney Top Plays 2018

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GOING TO BE?!! I think we can lose the going to be! And thanks for the videos!
 
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I don’t believe people are down playing the impact that Willis had in 2018; he was a disruptive force for us and played hard, with a chip on his shoulder the entirety of the season he played in. What I think some are saying is that via more of a committee approach we should be able to field players (as in plural) collectively that can match what Willis did singularly last year. Therefore, there should or could be an assumption that the DL will play equally as well as in 2018, therefore making the 2019 version just as disruptive, but with splash plays spread out amongst more players than 1 particular lineman.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
What Jaquan Johnson did last year (and the previous year) mentally will be incredibly tough to replace. Losing a kid like that, along with someone as athletic and experienced as Redwine....I just can't say the defense will be better. It just doesn't compute in my mind.

Also, I honestly feel that Gerald Willis played like a first-team All-America last season. I watched a ton of football last year, and I didn't see a more dominating kid at that spot in the entire country. If he was a choir boy and played at Texas or OU or Bama, he's on an All-America team. The person above who said there was no noticeable drop-off when he was off the field is laughable. He was an absolute force when he was in the game. Nobody we have is going to play to that level, and in Manny's scheme, having a kid get that much penetration from that spot is imperative to how he designs his defense.

I'm excited as **** for Rousseau. Shaq and Pinckney, as seniors, should be monsters. Garvin is a Top 3 round talent. Finley was awesome last year, and I expect him to improve. The safeties are going to be athletic and fast as ****. On the edges, we should be excellent. Bandy. The young corners. Silvera. There's a ton to be excited about here. Don't get it twisted, I think this defense is going to be violent and terrifying. But last year was absolutely special. I think this is getting lost around here....what we witnessed last year on defense was legitimately special. That defense was THAT good, with literally NO HELP from anyone else. The offense was putrid. The special teams were a stain on the program. Punting was DEAD LAST in America for god's sake. When we turned it over, it was immediate points in many cases. The pick 6 against LSU. The one down the 5 against UVA. The one in the redzone against BC. We didn't turn it over much on the opponent's side of the field last year. Average opponent's field position was one of the worst in the country. We were 87th in the country in time of possession. And the defense still excelled at literally every single metric. All by themselves.

I just can't say it's going to be better this year when you consider what we lost. That's a lot to expect out of the new kids. But **** it should still be an incredibly exciting, fast, violent defense. And if the kids on the backend can gel, look out.
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Good post but I'll play devil's advocate. When you look at all the talent we have coming back and the depth across the DL, the experience at LB and the speed and athleticism in the secondary, it's hard not to get excited.

In terms of this defense having the potential to be better than last year, I will tell you why it very well could be. First you accurately mention the fact that our offense last year was absolutely putrid. You also mention that we were last in punting and opponent starting field position as well as near the bottom in TOP. In spite of all that , last years defense managed to finish at #2 in the nation in total defense and #1 or near the top in many other categories/metrics. My argument for this years defense possibly eclipsing last years other than the talented personnel on D is the fact that I fully expect the offense to improve considerably and even dramatically for reasons that I won't detail right now but we all know. Enos, new system that fits the talent, new head coach, new culture, infinitely better S&C and so on. In addition to the offense being much better I think the punting will improve significantly with Hedley and new staff emphasis on ST.

With the offense moving the football, keeping possession longer, scoring points and the ability to get ahead on the scoreboard early, this defense will not have to do it all themselves. The defense will be better rested and put in much better situations as it relates to field position. Also, the ability of this offense to get us the lead will allow our defense to pin it's collective ears back much more.

To be clear, I'm not saying that we're going to get good leads in every game nor am I saying that this offense will resemble the 2018 Kansas City Chiefs. What I am saying is that I expect the offense to greatly improve in all of the areas listed above. I think we are going to see a team whose offense, defense and "Gasp" even Special Teams feed off each other instead of the defense having to carry the other two all game every game. This dynamic will only benefit the defense and because of this they could be better this year than they were last year which is a truly terrifying thought for every team on our schedule.
 
FrancisSaywer said:
Good post but I'll play devil's advocate. When you look at all the talent we have coming back and the depth across the DL, the experience at LB and the speed and athleticism in the secondary, it's hard not to get excited.

In terms of this defense having the potential to be better than last year, I will tell you why it very well could be. First you accurately mention the fact that our offense last year was absolutely putrid. You also mention that we were last in punting and opponent starting field position as well as near the bottom in TOP. In spite of all that , last years defense managed to finish at #2 in the nation in total defense and #1 or near the top in many other categories/metrics. My argument for this years defense possibly eclipsing last years other than the talented personnel on D is the fact that I fully expect the offense to improve considerably and even dramatically for reasons that I won't detail right now but we all know. Enos, new system that fits the talent, new head coach, new culture, infinitely better S&C and so on. In addition to the offense being much better I think the punting will improve significantly with Hedley and new staff emphasis on ST.

With the offense moving the football, keeping possession longer, scoring points and the ability to get ahead on the scoreboard early, this defense will not have to do it all themselves. The defense will be better rested and put in much better situations as it relates to field position. Also, the ability of this offense to get us the lead will allow our defense to pin it's collective ears back much more.

To be clear, I'm not saying that we're going to get good leads in every game nor am I saying that this offense will resemble the 2018 Kansas City Chiefs. What I am saying is that I expect the offense to greatly improve in all of the areas listed above. I think we are going to see a team whose offense, defense and "Gasp" even Special Teams feed off each other instead of the defense having to carry the other two all game every game. This dynamic will only benefit the defense and because of this they could be better this year than they were last year which is a truly terrifying thought for every team on our schedule.
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I can't argue with a single thing you said. I fully expect the offense and punting to be better (seriously...how can they be worse?), which we all know will do nothing but help the defense. Only thing I'll say back to my point is that, of the metrics the defense was at or near the top in last year, scoring defense was not one of them. The 2018 unit finished #18 in the country in scoring defense....and I believe that number was pretty obviously driven in no small part by the horror movie that was the 2018 offense and special teams. So, when I say I don't think the defense will be "better", maybe a good offense/ST can help a little with the scoring defense number?

I just don't see how people can say a defense losing the kids we did will be BETTER than #1 in the country in TFL, #9 in the country in sacks, and #1 in the country in opponents 3rd down %. If your argument is that a better offense/ST will perhaps drop the scoring defense number from #18 (at 19.5 PPG), I might be able to agree with that. Or at least be optimistic about it. And of course, scoring/giving up points is really the only metric that matters. So if you want to tell me that with the returning talent on defense, better offense, and better special teams, Miami will give up less than 19.5 PPG this season, I might get on board there. But I just can't say the defense overall will be better....because giving up only 19.5 PPG in spite of the god**** abomination we saw in the other 2 phases is an incredible accomplishment, and I really can't get behind the defense being MORE dominant as whole when you're losing what we did, even though I am very excited to see the new kids play.

Bottom line, I think the defense will be fantastic. I just think the people who are saying it will be better are way too optimistic, and are also selling short the job that this defense did last year.
 
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