The truth about Mario

[filmcane]

Any other coach is better than Manny.

BUT I do think we tend to get FIXATED on the flavor of the month.

Hopefully we'll take a good hard look at ALL the available candidates.....not just the ones with Miami ties......bcuz none of our championship coaches had previous ties.

Make it an open search

Agreed. I don't think "professional search" necessarily means inordinately long search, but yes, the search should be based on reason, facts and logic and run by people who have a proven track record of identifying successful coaches.

 

[Go Canes!!]

So, just curious as to these "inexplicable and frankly inexcusable losses Mario has taken" at Oregon, since I already posted something that provided context to his pre-Saban time at FIU.

He's got 10 losses in *5* seasons at Oregon (really, just 9 losses in 4 seasons where he didn't take over as an interim), but let's count them all just so we don't have an overly small sample size.

2017 - bowl game loss (by 10) to #25 ranked Boise State after Taggart left. Inexplicable? Frankly inexcusable? No.
2018 - home losses to (at the time) #7 ranked Stanford (in OT) and #25 ranked Washington State (by 14) and road losses to Arizona (by 29) and Utah (by 7). Inexplicable? Frankly inexcusable? Maybe the Arizona game.
2019 - Week Zero neutral site loss to (at the time) #16 ranked Auburn and road loss to Arizona State (by 3)? Inexplicable? Frankly inexcusable? No.
2020 - COVID year, at least 2 Pac 12 games that coulda/woulda/shoulda been played were never played. Bowl game loss (by 17) to (at the time) #10 ranked Iowa State, and road losses to Oregon State (by 3) and Cal (by 4). Inexplicable? Frankly inexcusable? No.

So let's review, shall we.

2-2 bowl record (1 loss came while taking over the team after Taggart left)
2-0 record in Pac 12 championship games (and Oregon has made the Pac 12 championship game 2 out of 3 of Mario's full years)
1 regular season loss to an OOC opponent (a ranked SEC team)
7 conference losses in 3 years; 5 of those losses were to unranked teams, all of which were road games, 4 of which were single-digit road losses

Sorry, my friend, I'm not seeing a whole lot of "inexplicable and frankly inexcusable losses" at Oregon. Arizona in 2018? Maybe.

Last season he lost to a winless Washington State team and a perennial bottom dwelling, one win (over Washington State) Cal team with the Pac-12 and Rose Bowl on the line.

This season he was tied with Fresno State, a team that’s under .500 the last three seasons with 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

 

[Donny Donowitz]

Also, this coaching candidate should have a super-model wife, a 15 inch ****, and some experience as an astronaut (navigator acceptable, does not have to be the captain).

Kind of a weird ask, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[9oh4Cane]

Mark Stoops is 4 years older than Cristobal

Ah thought we were talkin Bob

 

[Donny Donowitz]

So define winning records in both? As it is P5 HCs with NFL experience, outside of Saban, let's see. You want P.J. Fleck or Mel Tucker or Jim Harbaugh or Paul Chryst or Greg Schiano? It becomes even smaller. And oh by the way, none of these guys, other than Fleck who won the MAC, have ever won their conference at any level. Check that Harbaugh won the Pioneer League twice at San Diego.

Bill O' Brien is who I want if you are asking.

 

[Donny Donowitz]

So define winning records in both? As it is P5 HCs with NFL experience, outside of Saban, let's see. You want P.J. Fleck or Mel Tucker or Jim Harbaugh or Paul Chryst or Greg Schiano? It becomes even smaller. And oh by the way, none of these guys, other than Fleck who won the MAC, have ever won their conference at any level. Check that Harbaugh won the Pioneer League twice at San Diego.

And his coaching tree he produced Mike Vrabel.

Fell under Bill Bellicheck and now Saban.

Checks a lot of boxes...was a proven recruiter even when Penn State should have died.

Probably costs us 1/2 of what Mario would (with the buyout)

 

[TheOriginalCane]

Last season he lost to a winless Washington State team and a perennial bottom dwelling, one win (over Washington State) Cal team with the Pac-12 on the line.

This season he was tied with Fresno State, a team that’s under .500 the last three seasons with 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

So, again, to sum up...

The 2021 Fresno State game was, technically, not a loss. Or even actually a loss.

And for 2020, we should be overreacting to "small sample size" and "Covid", huh?

Oh, and can we roll back the tape? Washington State? NOT winless. Oh, and Oregon actually beat Washington State. I'm assuming you meant Oregon State, which had TWO wins (not zero). But, again, Covid was wreaking havoc on everyone's available rosters last year, and 2020 provided amazingly inconsistent results during the regular season. As for Cal, they had at least 3 games cancelled due to Covid and lost 3 others.

Still...in those two road games (Oregon State and Cal) Oregon lost by 3 and 4 points...conference games...Covid year...small sample size with all the game cancellations and the Pac 12 having the shortest season in Power 5.

NOT exactly "inexplicable and frankly inexcusable".

 

[Handsome Squidbum]

Fair points, but if we are actually going to analyze the FIU years (and compare apples to apples), you have to start with Strock.

Strock's first 3 years were as a Division I-AA independent, and then he was in the Division I-A Sun Belt for 2 years. Strock's wins per year were 5, 2, and 3 (I-AA independent years) and 5 and 0 (I-A Sun Belt years). Mario coached for 6 years, all in the Division I-A Sun Belt, and won 1, 5, 3, 7, 8, and 3 games.

Then you take a look at the opponents, since many of both Strock's and Mario's losses came to MUCH MUCH better teams, particularly OOC teams.

Strock Y1 (I-AA) - toughest opponents were losses to Maine, FAU, and Bethune-Cookman
Strock Y2 (I-AA) - toughest opponents were losses to Maine, FAU, Georgia Southern, and Bethune-Cookman
Strock Y3 (I-AA) - toughest opponents were losses to Western Kentucky, Georgia Southern, and Bethune-Cookman
Strock Y4 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Kansas State and Texas Tech
Strock Y5 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to USF, Maryland, Alabama, and Miami

Mario Y1 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Penn State, Kansas, Maryland, Arkansas, and Miami
Mario Y2 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Iowa, Kansas, and USF
Mario Y3 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Alabama, Rutgers, and Florida
Mario Y4 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Texas A&M, Rutgers, Maryland, and Pitt
Mario Y5 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Duke and Marshall, though they beat Louisville and UCF
Mario Y6 (I-A) - toughest opponents were losses to Duke, Louisville, and UCF

Strock piled up 10 of his 15 wins in I-AA when his toughest opponents were not I-A teams. Mario coached all 6 of his years in I-A and played a fairly brutal OOC schedule (for a school that had just made the jump from I-AA), so Mario took a lot of tough losses, while doing better and better in the Sun Belt.

Bottom line, if someone can't see that Mario significantly improved FIU over his tenure (with the exception of his final year, when his battle with Pete got out-of-hand), then I don't know what constitutes "program-building".

One way or another, it was a good first job for Cristobal. The important thing is he didn't feel he was the smartest guy in the room and blame his fate on getting a raw deal from the AD. He realized he had flaws and went work for the best in the business to become a better coach. It seems to have worked.

Pre-Saban Cristobal: no bueno
Post-Saban Cristobal: Muy macho

 

[TheOriginalCane]

One way or another, it was a good first job for Cristobal. The important thing is he didn't feel he was the smartest guy in the room and blame his fate on getting a raw deal from the AD. He realized he had flaws and went work for the best in the business to become a better coach. It seems to have worked.

Pre-Saban Cristobal: no bueno.
Post-Saban Cristobal: Si, por favor

Agreed. I just wanted to be very clear, I do believe that even a green, brand-new Mario improved upon what Strock left him at FIU.

And he has definitely solidified Oregon after the smoke-and-mirrors Taggart.

 

[Marcelo2988]

That 27-47 at FIU Mario Cristobal?

That record is scary but it's important to look at the circumstances.

#1 - He took over a garbage FIU program and improved them
#2 - FIU Mario isn't present day Mario. He spent a couple of years under Saban and learned from him

The dude has won his conference TWICE.

Golden couldn't win his conference w/ Temple. Richt hadn't won the SEC in forever when he got here. Manny and Shannon were first time coaches and sucked

The FIU record is concerning but coaches can get better. Mario has shown improvement as the head guy

 

[TemplarCane]

And his coaching tree he produced Mike Vrabel.

Fell under Bill Bellicheck and now Saban.

Checks a lot of boxes...was a proven recruiter even when Penn State should have died.

Probably costs us 1/2 of what Mario would (with the buyout)

Bill O'Brien would jump back to the NFL as soon as possible. And as proven at PSU, he didn't need to win the B1G or a NY6 bowl to jump after two seasons.

 

[Marcelo2988]

The thing about this thread that makes me chuckle is the amount of excuses made for the inexplicable and frankly inexcusable losses Mario has taken. Not to mention the near misses against far inferior opponents.

Yes, he’s proven a lot but still has some truly ugly warts on his résumé.

Man I hate this argument. What head coaches don't have inexcusable losses on their resume? Lol

Saban is the only dude now not losing to less talented teams. Dabo. Urban. Name any other coach and you'll find questionable losses

 

[Marcelo2988]

Last season he lost to a winless Washington State team and a perennial bottom dwelling, one win (over Washington State) Cal team with the Pac-12 and Rose Bowl on the line.

This season he was tied with Fresno State, a team that’s under .500 the last three seasons with 2 minutes left in the 4th quarter.

The same Fresno state that beat a much improved and good looking UCLA team?

Lol at being tied with a team in the 4TH being the determinant to not hiring a guy. They won the game!

 

[HurricaneHauk]

That record is scary but it's important to look at the circumstances.

#1 - He took over a garbage FIU program and improved them
#2 - FIU Mario isn't present day Mario. He spent a couple of years under Saban and learned from him

The dude has won his conference TWICE.

Golden couldn't win his conference w/ Temple. Richt hadn't won the SEC in forever when he got here. Manny and Shannon were first time coaches and sucked

The FIU record is concerning but coaches can get better. Mario has shown improvement as the head guy

Thanks for making my point when someone wants to Stoops is 52-50 at freaking KENTUCKY

 

[Donny Donowitz]

Bill O'Brien would jump back to the NFL as soon as possible. And as proven at PSU, he didn't need to win the B1G or a NY6 bowl to jump after two seasons.

He actually won Coach of the year his first year because of all the stuff that was going on a couple month after he was hired. Was offered a couple NFL jobs after his first season and stayed 1 more year because he stated he didn't completely want to ***** the kids he brought in (no pun intended because of PSU).

Him wanting to go to the NFL is something neither of us know....but my guess....Saban stayed in College after his stint. Urban will probably want back. Harbaugh hasn't left. Dan Mullen and Lincoln Riley have stayed.

I do know he like to have control of things....and being a college head coach offers more of that than being an NFL one.

 

[Marcelo2988]

Thanks for making my point when someone wants to Stoops is 52-50 at freaking KENTUCKY

Oh my bad. Hadn't really read what you had responded to

 

[Donny Donowitz]

That record is scary but it's important to look at the circumstances.

#1 - He took over a garbage FIU program and improved them
#2 - FIU Mario isn't present day Mario. He spent a couple of years under Saban and learned from him

The dude has won his conference TWICE.

Golden couldn't win his conference w/ Temple. Richt hadn't won the SEC in forever when he got here. Manny and Shannon were first time coaches and sucked

The FIU record is concerning but coaches can get better. Mario has shown improvement as the head guy

Golden did win his conference 1 year at Temple

Edit* my apologies they lost in that championship game.

 

[Go Canes!!]

So, again, to sum up...

The 2021 Fresno State game was, technically, not a loss. Or even actually a loss.

And for 2020, we should be overreacting to "small sample size" and "Covid", huh?

Oh, and can we roll back the tape? Washington State? NOT winless. Oh, and Oregon actually beat Washington State. I'm assuming you meant Oregon State, which had TWO wins (not zero). But, again, Covid was wreaking havoc on everyone's available rosters last year, and 2020 provided amazingly inconsistent results during the regular season. As for Cal, they had at least 3 games cancelled due to Covid and lost 3 others.

Still...in those two road games (Oregon State and Cal) Oregon lost by 3 and 4 points...conference games...Covid year...small sample size with all the game cancellations and the Pac 12 having the shortest season in Power 5.

NOT exactly "inexplicable and frankly inexcusable".

Sorry got them backwards. Cal was winless and Oregon State's only other win was Cal

And I’m pretty sure using Covid as an excuse in 2020 gets you labeled a slurper here.

Fresno State is an example of a near miss to a vastly inferior team.

 

[TemplarCane]

He actually won Coach of the year his first year because of all the stuff that was going on a couple month after he was hired. Was offered a couple NFL jobs after his first season and stayed 1 more year because he stated he didn't completely want to ***** the kids he brought in (no pun intended because of PSU).

Him wanting to go to the NFL is something neither of us know....but my guess....Saban stayed in College after his stint. Urban will probably want back. Harbaugh hasn't left. Dan Mullen and Lincoln Riley have stayed.

I do know he like to have control of things....and being a college head coach offers more of that than being an NFL one.

Perhaps. I'm of the belief coaches that taste the NFL want to go back to the NFL for another opportunity at the HC job.

Is this an issue? A HC at Miami whose goal is the NFL isn't likely to coddle players or accept ****-poor assistants. He took a job working for Saban. One could extrapolate this into improving Miami enought impress NFL owners. He wouldn't have to win a NC, just turn around the program 'enough'. And hiring O'Brien means adults are running show, so they might find a quality replacement if they needed to hire another HC in 2025.

Would not be the worst case scenario.

 

[Go Canes!!]

The same Fresno state that beat a much improved and good looking UCLA team?

Lol at being tied with a team in the 4TH being the determinant to not hiring a guy. They won the game!

Wasn’t half this board firing Manny after a close win against an App State team that would likely be favored over Fresno State?