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The Foreclosure (7/12)

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TOcane said:
… but the only ones comparing him to Manny are the ones that if we won a championship they still would say we did it wrong.
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This is wrong. If we won a championship I wouldn’t criticize it. I’ve been around for all of them, attended 3 in person including 83, 87 and 01, and I never complained about how we won any of it.

The truth is that the results on the field is ultimately what matters. Recruiting, NIL… it’s all to convert wins on the field. Manny and Mario have essentially the same record after three years and Manny had no resources compared to Mario. And Mario took Manny’s 7 win team and won 5 that next year.

Mario will recruit very well and give us 8 win type seasons and stabilize us from being a joke as a program. Thats what he’ll ultimately do.
 
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NC_Canes_11 said:
If Rome was built in 3 years, you’re correct.

When Saban won, he started winning in year 2. Both at Bama and LSU. He didn’t win at MSU so that doesn’t matter.

Dabo won the conference in year 3. And starting in year 3 won at least 10 games in 12 straight years.
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Saban went 9-2 in his 5th year at Michigan St.

Saban went 8-4, 10-3, 8-5 at LSU before going 13-1, and then followed that up with 9-3

Dabo went 9-5, 6-7, then 10-4 (losing in the Orange Bowl 33 to ******* 70).

It's taken many great coaches several years to consistently win 10+ games.

We will just have to agree to disagree b/c we aren't even having the same argument.
 
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RVACane said:
@Calinative, Sewell is one, how many 1st round OLs has Mario put in the league over the past 10 years??? I wanna see what elite OL recruiting and development looks like.
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You understand that at Miami, if Cantwell becomes the 3 year starter we all expect him to be, then in 7 years of Mario as HC here by 28 when Cantwell would declare, just between Cantwell and Mauigoa that'll account for 6/14 years worth of starting OT jobs? Another 3 of those 14 starting OT jobs went to Rivers who was a 5th rounder. So that would account for 9/13. So I guess we will see how/If Bell gets drafted as that'll be 10/14. And then we'll see who the OT opposite Cantwell is 26-28 for the final 3.... But yeah I'd say this is shaping up to be a pretty **** elite track record at OT under Mario. Guards and Centers are drafted in the 1st at a substantially lower level than OT. Like it's what around a 3-1 or maybe even 4-1 ratio of OT to OG/OC?

So you see how your entire criticism of saying only 1st rounders logically is a terrible criticsm? I mean first of all you are doing a time limit and given OLineman take longer to develop, and the fact that he is just now entering the years where his actual Oline recruits here (other than transfers and guys he developed from previous staffs like Rivers) are draft elligible, and you are quite literally setting him up to fail in your metric. Like If youre entire Metric to judge how good of an Oline developer awards him LESS points for having Peneii Sewell and Franics Mauigoa starting for 6 years and ending up top 10 picks (likely), then it's a terrible way to analyze it. Simple as that. By your metric It would make him a better developer of Lineman to ONLY take 1 year senior transfer OTs yearly out of the portal. Because then maybe he'd have more than 2 1st rounders drafted. Does that make any sense?

Also just in general I find it funny how much everyone acts like only 1st (or even 1st-3rd rounders) are all that matter. Yes its important to have them. But With Oregon and Miami he's responsible for what like 7-8 guys drafted: two top 10 picks (likely), a 2nd in JPJ, a 5th in Rivers, 7th in Lee, a couple more 6ths/7ths in guys from Oregon and tbd on Cooper and Bell.... But hey non 1st rounders don't matter at all, right? Certainly they are entirely irrelevant to how a CFB Oline performs. Because unless you only have 1st rounders, then you can't be good... oh and obviously his time at Bama doesn't exist either... lol

But hey I'm sure since you're a full blown Mario hater at this point you will just take this response as a Slurper, right? Cause the fact is yall keep spreading your bs as if your just 'being real', when again all your doing is peddling bs....
 
RVACane said:
These guys are writing Lagway off after he had that year as a true freshman. He has a lot of raw talent and ability. We’ll see if he takes a jump up or not but I wouldn’t underestimate him yet.
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Nobody is writing Lagway off ... it's just asinine that people (including media) are treating him like he's an NFL All-Pro when in reality he was mid as **** last year and hasn't even been able to throw yet this year.
 
SJMPARMAN said:
I am a Miami fan from the 1970's. I have seen it all. For this fan base to ***** like it does now is not surprising but, as usual, terribly disappointing. Let me tell you what I have seen so you can appreciate what we have now.

Howard won a natty with some guys who were not the most athletic but he had a scheme for offense that was ahead of his time. He ran a pro style offense when teams were still recruiting to defend the wishbone. He ended up showing that pro style beats the wishbone.

Jimmy came here from an Oklahoma team that basically ran the wishbone. He had Thurman Thomas - why wouldn't you do that? He got here and met Gary Stephens the guy most wanted to get the job he just took. He wisely let Gary run the offense. On offense Stevens got Testeverde from Va from NY. Walsh from MN. Richt from Boca Raton. Then he did what Jimmy did best he recruited the best of the best on defense. Fortunately for him he made some great decisions in getting Jesse Armstead from Texas, Michael Barrow from Pennsylvania, and Randy Shannon from Miami. He then recruited Ed Reed from Louisiana and many other out of state players.

I could go on and on about how our best recruits were not local or Florida players. If that were true FSU and UF would have 5 championships. But they don't have that.

Under Manny we were undersized on both the offensive line and defensive line as a result of his failure to recruit. Mario took the job and said on day one he had to rebuild the trenches. He has done exactly that on both sides on the ball. I don't give a **** if we lose a CB or a safety if we can't be bullied anymore. And there is no doubt we just rebuilt the secondary in the transfer portal. We have a QB 1 excellent OL, great RB's, excellent tight ends and dangerous wide outs. Stop the whining and *****ing God Dammit!
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Nah, you can stuff it. I was there as a kid in the 70’s going to many of those games on seasons tickets at an empty OB in that stifling heat. I can say what I want about Mario and Manny tuff ****.

And Michael Barrow was from Homestead not Pennsylvania. Richt was recruited by either Lou Saban or Howard not Gary Stevens

Good lord, dementia is a real thing.
 
ssvir said:
Nobody is writing Lagway off ... it's just asinine that people (including media) are treating him like he's an NFL All-Pro when in reality he was mid as **** last year and hasn't even been able to throw yet this year.
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I think it’s open. He was mid last year overall stats-wise but he was a true freshman playing a brutal schedule. He has a lot of raw ability. We’ll see if he steps up or not. I wouldn’t underestimate him though.
 
I’m sorry manny is the worst hc to walk through those doors. I’ve never seen a hc who sucks at something they specialize in at all facets.

He also had a 3 year head start for roster building prior to be a hc and proceeded to leave the worst roster we’ve ever had.
 
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RVACane said:
These guys are writing Lagway off after he had that year as a true freshman. He has a lot of raw talent and ability. We’ll see if he takes a jump up or not but I wouldn’t underestimate him yet.
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No it would be dumb to write him off but to say he’s the best qb in cfb is wild.
 
SJMPARMAN said:
I am a Miami fan from the 1970's. I have seen it all. For this fan base to ***** like it does now is not surprising but, as usual, terribly disappointing. Let me tell you what I have seen so you can appreciate what we have now.

Howard won a natty with some guys who were not the most athletic but he had a scheme for offense that was ahead of his time. He ran a pro style offense when teams were still recruiting to defend the wishbone. He ended up showing that pro style beats the wishbone.

Jimmy came here from an Oklahoma team that basically ran the wishbone. He had Thurman Thomas - why wouldn't you do that? He got here and met Gary Stephens the guy most wanted to get the job he just took. He wisely let Gary run the offense. On offense Stevens got Testeverde from Va from NY. Walsh from MN. Richt from Boca Raton. Then he did what Jimmy did best he recruited the best of the best on defense. Fortunately for him he made some great decisions in getting Jesse Armstead from Texas, Michael Barrow from Pennsylvania, and Randy Shannon from Miami. He then recruited Ed Reed from Louisiana and many other out of state players.

I could go on and on about how our best recruits were not local or Florida players. If that were true FSU and UF would have 5 championships. But they don't have that.

Under Manny we were undersized on both the offensive line and defensive line as a result of his failure to recruit. Mario took the job and said on day one he had to rebuild the trenches. He has done exactly that on both sides on the ball. I don't give a **** if we lose a CB or a safety if we can't be bullied anymore. And there is no doubt we just rebuilt the secondary in the transfer portal. We have a QB 1 excellent OL, great RB's, excellent tight ends and dangerous wide outs. Stop the whining and *****ing God Dammit!
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It’s 2025. What took place before the internet was a thing means nothing today for CFB. Congrats though.

And Michael Barrow was not from Pennsylvania. Wtf 🤣
 
Calinative said:
You understand that at Miami, if Cantwell becomes the 3 year starter we all expect him to be, then in 7 years of Mario as HC here by 28 when Cantwell would declare, just between Cantwell and Mauigoa that'll account for 6/14 years worth of starting OT jobs? Another 3 of those 14 starting OT jobs went to Rivers who was a 5th rounder. So that would account for 9/13. So I guess we will see how/If Bell gets drafted as that'll be 10/14. And then we'll see who the OT opposite Cantwell is 26-28 for the final 3.... But yeah I'd say this is shaping up to be a pretty **** elite track record at OT under Mario. Guards and Centers are drafted in the 1st at a substantially lower level than OT. Like it's what around a 3-1 or maybe even 4-1 ratio of OT to OG/OC?

So you see how your entire criticism of saying only 1st rounders logically is a terrible criticsm? I mean first of all you are doing a time limit and given OLineman take longer to develop, and the fact that he is just now entering the years where his actual Oline recruits here (other than transfers and guys he developed from previous staffs like Rivers) are draft elligible, and you are quite literally setting him up to fail in your metric. Like If youre entire Metric to judge how good of an Oline developer awards him LESS points for having Peneii Sewell and Franics Mauigoa starting for 6 years and ending up top 10 picks (likely), then it's a terrible way to analyze it. Simple as that. By your metric It would make him a better developer of Lineman to ONLY take 1 year senior transfer OTs yearly out of the portal. Because then maybe he'd have more than 2 1st rounders drafted. Does that make any sense?

Also just in general I find it funny how much everyone acts like only 1st (or even 1st-3rd rounders) are all that matter. Yes its important to have them. But With Oregon and Miami he's responsible for what like 7-8 guys drafted: two top 10 picks (likely), a 2nd in JPJ, a 5th in Rivers, 7th in Lee, a couple more 6ths/7ths in guys from Oregon and tbd on Cooper and Bell.... But hey non 1st rounders don't matter at all, right? Certainly they are entirely irrelevant to how a CFB Oline performs. Because unless you only have 1st rounders, then you can't be good... oh and obviously his time at Bama doesn't exist either... lol

But hey I'm sure since you're a full blown Mario hater at this point you will just take this response as a Slurper, right? Cause the fact is yall keep spreading your bs as if your just 'being real', when again all your doing is peddling bs....
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Just picked Iowa as a school I figure probably develops OL better than Mario. Here is going back 10 years:

2024
Connor Colby 4star 7th round
Mason Richman 4star 7th round

2022
Tyler linderbaum 4star (175 overall) 1st round

2020
Tristan wirfs 4star (126 overall) 1st round

2019
James Daniels 3star 2nd round

2016
Austin Blythe 4star 7th round

2015
Brandon Scherff unranked 1st round

Not only are there more draft picks, but the picks are going higher than their recruiting profile suggested they would.

I use this Iowa example simply to show that Mario is overrated as an OL developer. Other programs are better at identifying them and coaching them up.
 
Calinative said:
You understand that at Miami, if Cantwell becomes the 3 year starter we all expect him to be, then in 7 years of Mario as HC here by 28 when Cantwell would declare, just between Cantwell and Mauigoa that'll account for 6/14 years worth of starting OT jobs? Another 3 of those 14 starting OT jobs went to Rivers who was a 5th rounder. So that would account for 9/13. So I guess we will see how/If Bell gets drafted as that'll be 10/14. And then we'll see who the OT opposite Cantwell is 26-28 for the final 3.... But yeah I'd say this is shaping up to be a pretty **** elite track record at OT under Mario. Guards and Centers are drafted in the 1st at a substantially lower level than OT. Like it's what around a 3-1 or maybe even 4-1 ratio of OT to OG/OC?

So you see how your entire criticism of saying only 1st rounders logically is a terrible criticsm? I mean first of all you are doing a time limit and given OLineman take longer to develop, and the fact that he is just now entering the years where his actual Oline recruits here (other than transfers and guys he developed from previous staffs like Rivers) are draft elligible, and you are quite literally setting him up to fail in your metric. Like If youre entire Metric to judge how good of an Oline developer awards him LESS points for having Peneii Sewell and Franics Mauigoa starting for 6 years and ending up top 10 picks (likely), then it's a terrible way to analyze it. Simple as that. By your metric It would make him a better developer of Lineman to ONLY take 1 year senior transfer OTs yearly out of the portal. Because then maybe he'd have more than 2 1st rounders drafted. Does that make any sense?

Also just in general I find it funny how much everyone acts like only 1st (or even 1st-3rd rounders) are all that matter. Yes its important to have them. But With Oregon and Miami he's responsible for what like 7-8 guys drafted: two top 10 picks (likely), a 2nd in JPJ, a 5th in Rivers, 7th in Lee, a couple more 6ths/7ths in guys from Oregon and tbd on Cooper and Bell.... But hey non 1st rounders don't matter at all, right? Certainly they are entirely irrelevant to how a CFB Oline performs. Because unless you only have 1st rounders, then you can't be good... oh and obviously his time at Bama doesn't exist either... lol

But hey I'm sure since you're a full blown Mario hater at this point you will just take this response as a Slurper, right? Cause the fact is yall keep spreading your bs as if your just 'being real', when again all your doing is peddling bs....
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Lol the only one peddling bs is you and the other St. CoRchibal loyalists. I see a lot of words in your answer. It’s a ******* simple question, Cali. If Mario is so elite at recruiting and developing OL, how many OL over the past 10 years has he put in the league in the first round, besides Sewell?

The answer I suspect, and I don’t know actually, but I suspect that Sewell was it. If there’s one more it doesn’t make him elite. He’ll put 5 star Mauigoa in the League on day one, sure. He may do the same for this latest 5 star. It doesn’t look like he’ll do that for 5 star Samson.

Thank you for your participation though.
 
RVACane said:
Nah, you can stuff it. I was there as a kid in the 70’s going to many of those games on seasons tickets at an empty OB in that stifling heat. I can say what I want about Mario and Manny tuff ****.

And Michael Barrow was from Homestead not Pennsylvania. Richt was recruited by either Lou Saban or Howard not Gary Stevens

Good lord, dementia is a real thing.
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You are right about Barrow but you don't think OC's recruit players they want?
 
Miami is not the only school throwing around money that’s what yall forget. Recruiting is a lot harder these days than it used to be even if everyone has money to spend.
 
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SJMPARMAN said:
You are right about Barrow but you don't think OC's recruit players they want?
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Richt wasn’t recruited by Gary Stevens. Richt showed up with Jim Kelly or close to it.

I thought we were talking about my right to ***** and whine about Mario and point out his results on the field compared to Manny with far less resources allocated to Manny.

It doesn’t matter. Mario is here for 4-5 more years I think with the contract he has and I will be too regardless of who the coach is.
 
Specifically what do you think Mario has not recruited that we need? Trenches? I would disagree. LB's servicable at least. TE;s better than most. RB's above average. WR's we shall see but I like the talent. DB's what was wrong with the portal hires? As an old lady once said where's the beef?
 
htownkidd said:
Too late
The kid already said he was “okay” with playing Safety according to Gaby. I’m sure he has seen/heard the smoke by now.
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In a way I COULD see it significantly work in our favor given literally anyone could look at our expected roster for next season and see that BY FAR the biggest void on defense is at Safety. I mean if you think you're an elite player, there is probably no position that is such a clear opportunity to get immediate snaps. However I would say that would be quite difficult to do at Safety, but hey if you can convince them they have the opportunity, you just need them to sign. So like If he wants to be a Cane and he wants to play asap, and he thinks he can be a very good safety... I mean That absolutely could work out very well for us tbh.

Also In the NFL CBs absolutely still make more money - especially the elite ones, but it has gotten a little closer. I mean Stingley did just fully reset the CB market, up until him I'd actually say it was honestly really lagging tbh. Right now there are 8 DBs making >$20M/yr, 2 of which are safeties. Theres 28 DBs making >$15M/yr, 10 of which are Safeties. So its not like THAT significant of an expected pay difference if you'd 'just' be a solid starting level cb...
 
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