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The Bank (camp edition 8/10)

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CANE1775 said:
Thanks for the update D!

Citizen definitely passes the look test, but count me as skeptical with regards to all of the buzz about him potentially starting by year end. While he looks the part, let's see how the true freshman stacks up with regards to patience and vision when the bullets start flying.

And looking a year out, I really think the defense has a chance to make a huge jump.
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We can’t crown the guy before he puts on for sure. Then anything less than 1st team AA and the fans will start chanting JAG. But this kid does look special. One of the things I was most impressed about with the film I watched was actually his patience. I don’t often see high school kids wait for their OL and blocks to unfold the way this kid did.
 
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PIPO said:
The key is him being back for Southern Miss.

If not, if he’s as good as advertised and T8&4 is the game, if Mario and Alex trust him to be out there, then I am fine with that despite the good point concerns you bring up.
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What I said is just a reality for any team in any league.

When you see guys in the NFL injured or hold out in the preseason, they're not at their best when they return. They need several games to play themselves into game shape because they missed a ton of live reps.

The same goes for Zion. I don't want him getting his practice reps as a starter against AtM. They could start him and maybe he's serviceable, but he won't be playing at the same level he'd be at several weeks later.

I just don't get the fanbase. If this were one if our RBs, everyone would say he should come off the bench and let someone else start. The same performance concerns and lack of repetition are there regardless of position when a player is out for an extended time.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
What I said is just a reality for any team in any league.

When you see guys in the NFL injured or hold out in the preseason, they're not at their best when they return. They need several games to play themselves into game shape because they missed a ton of live reps.

The same goes for Zion. I don't want him getting his practice reps as a starter against AtM. They could start him and maybe he's serviceable, but he won't be playing at the same level he'd be at several weeks later.

I just don't get the fanbase. If this were one if our RBs, everyone would say they should come off the bench and let someone else start. The same performance concerns and lack of repetition are there regardless of position when a player is out for an extended time.
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Understood but you make a bad analogy between a LT & RB.

RBs are a dime in a dozen. Completely different position.

I get the reps part but if he’s better than the backup despite all of the missed reps, you go with your best guy at that premium position.

I wasn’t disagreeing with your analysis other than to say, I am leaving it up to Mario and Alex and I am good with whatever they decide. What’s there to get with my point of view if I am saying I am good with their decision?
 
Number1CanesFan said:
You act like we don't have anyone else capable. You talk desperate. He's going to be rusty. He won't be at his best. He will have missed all the reps of Fall camp.

I'd rather plan around a known commodity than something unknown. Bring him along slowly.
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I actually don’t think we have anyone else capable when considering the quality of the entire line. Losing him…even if you plug someone in his spot that’s solid…there’s going to be a weakness somewhere.

Regardless, I think he’ll be fine by then.
 
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Have to be encouraged after watching the product fielded in recent years. There's some of the elite talent seen at Bama, Ohio State, etc - TVD, Nelson, Williams - but not yet in the same quantity. Good news is it appears to be coming. Staff did a great job adding to the depth & physical maturity via the portal. So should see upgrades and decent depth across the board. Then, it becomes a question of how quickly players adapt to new systems and the assumption players will play harder, tackle better, as well as what we see in terms coaching in-game adjustments, etc. Don't expect to see a high-powered offense that blows folks out, but Miami should be in every game and hopefully rely on physicality and toughness to win games that have escaped them in the Manny and Golden years.
 
Number1CanesFan said:
NO. Not even close. Being healthy doesn't mean he's going play at championship form.

You said, "If his knee feels good by 9/17,,,,," Are you kidding me? What does his knee feeling good have to do with performance? He's missing the entire Fall camp. He's not going to be at his best no matter what you say.

It's like a track athlete who misses an entire month before the Olympics with a surgery on their knee and hasn't run in a month. Just because they feel good doesn't mean they're going to perform at their best in the most important event. You should lower your expectations.

As I stated, I wouldn't start him against AtM. At best, I'd bring him in a few series and see where he's at. If he holds up, you leave him in. You're not going to know that until he's taking live action. You can't plan on him being the starter against an elite defense.
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Dude is gonna get as many reps as he can handle in game 2 prior to that. That will be the test, if he’s ready to get back into full action. Nobody is gonna throw him in as a starter vs ATM without a single season rep prior lol
 
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PIPO said:
Understood but you make a bad analogy between a LT & RB.

RBs are a dime in a dozen. Completely different position.

I get the reps part but if he’s better than the backup despite all of the missed reps, you go with your best guy at that premium position.

I wasn’t disagreeing with your analysis other than to say, I am leaving it up to Mario and Alex and I am good with whatever they decide. What’s there to get with my point of view if I am saying I am good with their decision?
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I think we all trust what Mario and Mirabal will do. We're just here debating what that decision should be.
 
OrangeBowlMagic said:
I went from completely horrified about this defensive line to downright excited in 8 months. Simply incredible what we have been able to do in that group already. My main hangup, by far, in hoping for a successful season was the defensive line and I said it for several months last winter. But I really think this will not only NOT be a problem, but it might actually be a very good DL when it all shakes out. There is such a nice mixture of available bodies, older/stronger upperclassmen, different skills, and young, upside athleticism.

We have 3 kids who are 6th year seniors. 24 year old men who should be able to hold up physically against just about anyone:

Moultrie (265 lbs)-- Played in 40+ college football games, very productive, should at least be good enough to hold down a handful of snaps against anyone
Agude (255 lbs) -- 2nd team All-Pac 12. 15 starts at the P5 level. Very similar to above, should be able to hold up against anybody we play.
Lichtenstein (270 lbs) -- Not expecting the world here but should be able to provide some depth. Lot of injuries but this kid played 11 games at the P5 level in 2018. It's 2022. 3rd on the team last year in sacks and TFLs.

We have 6 kids who 3rd/4th/5th year players who have experience at this level, and at least some productivity:

Williams (255 lbs) -- The DMoney special, 3rd year soph primed to hopefully take the next step
Harvey (250 lbs) -- Should be at worst one of our 1-2 best pass rushers. 4th year RS-Soph. 20+ games of experience. Generating early draft talk.
JHH (285 lbs) -- Quick 3T who is entering Year 4 with a ton of experience. Should be a starter this year, or at least a HEAVY rotation guy
Mesidor (280 lbs) -- Would shock no one to see this kid wind up our most productive and versatile DL. Immediate impact transfer as a 3rd year Soph.
Roberts (275 lbs) -- Should finally be able to hold his own physically after bulking for 3 years. Consensus 4-star prospect
Miller (320 lbs) -- We probably know who he is at this point, but should be able to eat some space in short yardage at 320 lbs in Year 5

And then a collection of 8 young upside players with mixes of size or elite athleticism who, at least a few, should be able to develop into excellent players:

LT (305 lbs) -- We know the deal here. It's your time to shine, young man. Expect a big true sophomore leap and this kid to be a freakshow this season.
Jackson (300 lbs) -- ELITE upside. A little polish here and we could have a superstar on our hands. Should be able to provide an immediate impact inside.
Kelly (240 lbs) -- True freshman opening eyes already. Not expecting 50 snaps a game, but this kid will play this year and should be able to contribute.
Moss (215 lbs) -- Will need a year to generate size, but absolutely elite athletic profile and by 2023 or 2024 he should be a high end starter at worst.
Ishmael (245 lbs) -- R-Fr, probably needs to continue to put on size
Davis (220 lbs) -- Hybrid rush end/backer, DMoney mentioned him in the OP as someone who is already looking like a player. R-Fr.
Haye (305 lbs) -- R-Fr who will get a chance to show what he can do this year
Moten (325) -- Underrated signee late after Mario arrived. Had lot of interest from national schools. Should be able to develop slowly, but good prospect.


That's 17 kids who all project to either at least have a small role last year, or certainly have potential in future years to develop into serviceable players. For this season only, we should legitimately be able to rotate somewhere in the neighborhood of 12 kids on the DL who have differing strengths. I'm not sure anyone here is a consensus first-team All-ACC player (although nobody would be shocked if LT, Jackson, or Mesidor got to that level soon), but that is a good collection of versatile players, old and young, big and athletic, that should allow us to hold up against everybody we play.

Bottom line, this group of kids compared to what we had in the 2nd half of last season should really be night and day. I went from covering my eyes when looking at this group to genuine excitement to see how they hold up.
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Great post sir...excellent post
 
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CANEMC said:
Once again, thank you Louisiana.

Kelly in the DE mix already is scary.

That FR Couch has emerged. Once a dog, always a dog.

I posted about Mello yesterday. Lashlee didn't utilize him enough when available. He has the tools we need at WR.
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Not scary to me...I was one of the only on board telling folks i liked him more than Shemar Stewart.

Kid is untapped because if you see him physically he still looks like a kid even with the legitimate weight he carries...hes gangly..when he fills out look out because he has always have that bend and long wingspan. Love having these problems
 
gogeta4 said:
Not scary to me...I was one of the only on board telling folks i liked him more than Shemar Stewart.

Kid is untapped because if you see him physically he still looks like a kid even with the legitimate weight he carries...hes gangly..when he fills out look out because he has always have that bend and long wingspan. Love having these problems
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He has the same build as JPP but a little shorter and all his fingers currently.


The biggest difference between Kelly and Stewart is one is not a giant hoe.


I'll let you guys figure out which one that is.
 
Dwinstitles said:
Give me the burst and speed at RB.....not just the speed or a slow guy and a guy that can break arm tackle and not lose a step. If Citizen is that good which it seems like it he will pass everyone or should. He has the look of a different RB when u see him and he just got here.
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I'm not expecting much from Citizen. Only the second coming of Ladanian Tomlinson.
 
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