Takeaway from the coach’s roundtable on ESPNU

[DTP]

No OC could've done $h!t with that turnstile we had at LT, and our sieve of an offensive line...even Boy Wonder, Baby Jeezus, Brady.

Every...Position...Is...Important.

I’ll ask again. What did LSU do different?

Joe Brady wasn’t even their OC

 

[bshaw28]

Overall talent isn't really the problem when you're losing to the **** we lose to every year. There are two separate arguments constantly flowing through these D$ NFL threads: 1. We have enough talent to be performing way better than we are (D$'s point); 2. Our talent isn't NC level and not on the level of Alabaga and Clemson (the guys who argue against D$).

I don't think D$ or guys like me who think we are underperforming our talent think we have the talent to win NCs. But we certainly have had the talent to perform much better than we have over the last 17 years. D$'s NFL posts prove that beyond a shadow of a doubt regardless of whether or not our NFL talent is performing at an All-Pro clip. We shouldn't need a roster full of NFL All-Pros to win the Coastal fairly regularly and win 10 per year.

The problem is we always compare Miami up, and never compare down.

We act like the talent gap between Clemson and Miami is the same size gap between Miami and UNC. It's not.

The truth is Miami's talent and UNC's talent is pretty close. But that's not something anyone wants to hear or admit.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I’ll ask again. What did LSU do different?

Joe Brady wasn’t even their OC

Interesting about Brady.

How did the Ensimger-Brady dynamic really work?

 

[bshaw28]

How does that 2008-2015 group compare to the rest of the nation? And why is your cutoff 2008? The teams from 2005-2007 were mediocre to terrible.

The only stats that matter are the stats that measure us relative to the rest of the nation. And those stats all come out the same, whether it's total NFL players, total players drafted, total salaries, players drafted the past five years. You name it. We're always in the top group, and every other team in the top group is an elite program. This is just the latest example.

I'm using 2008 because Miami's talent fell off a cliff after the 2007 draft (2006 season). The last 12-13 years is a more realistic picture of where we're at, and @OriginalCanesCanesCanes asked you for examples of the last 10-12 years.

You're using data from Miami's 2001 - 2015 teams, and the amount of talent on the 2001 - 2006 teams is wildly skewing the reality of the amount of talent we've had from 2007 - 2019.

This data is outdated. In 2 weeks it won't have included the last 5 drafts.

 

[Gooner#44]

Most of the skill players who contributed at LSU were not more highly rated recruits than what Miami has. LSU has recruited above Miami overall but that includes defensive players and linemen. Their skill talent was very comparable. Still, even if the talent is a tier below, we don’t need to get LSU results to have a huge turnaround on offense. If the offense just improves to “pretty good” we’re hands down the top team in the coastal. Clearly overall talent levels would need to increase to make that next jump to title contender but let’s take one step at a time.

nailed it, agree 100%

not sure why OCCC can not comprehend it

 

[Gooner#44]

Funny thing about LSU was that their defense (where they had the majority of their recruiting stars) got worse and was, by far, the lesser of the 2 units last year.

They probably have 8plus NFL starter guys on that D. IMO their bad #s were a result of the offense having 2 minute TD drives and getting up 35 so they play soft. That D is LOADED with 4-5 star recruits and NFL picks.

 

[DTP]

Interesting about Brady.

How did the Ensimger-Brady dynamic really work?

Ensimger put on his big boy pants and accepted the fact that his offense, specifically the passing game needed help. Instead of being a stubborn prick, like most of the guys we hire, he let someone else re write his playbook. It obviously worked because Ensimger still called plays. It will be interesting to see how they play without Brady or Joe Burrow this year.

 

[DTP]

They probably have 8plus NFL starter guys on that D. IMO their bad #s were a result of the offense having 2 minute TD drives and getting up 35 so they play soft. That D is LOADED with 4-5 star recruits and NFL picks.

The defense was statistically worse because the offense was scoring so fast and so much, they had to defend more opponent possessions. You also tend to relax a bit as a defender when you’re up 30 points in the third quarter. I’m curious what their per play average was. You can still play great defense but the law of averages says the more possessions you give an opponent, the more yards/points you’re going to surrender. They essentially went from winning games 17-14 to 48-24.

 

[BoxingRobes]

Interesting about Brady.

How did the Ensimger-Brady dynamic really work?

I've outlined it on this website before with a lot of backup. Its not a secret and well documented. Its Brady's offense with substantial input, even on gameday...but Ensminger called the plays. Its fine to give Joe Brady credit, because last year was all him and Joe Burrow...Coach E was one of the most selfless coaches you'll ever see last year and deserves credit. He's a long time veteran coach and his experienced helped invaluably.

 

[bshaw28]

U ever heard of the term “A Miami Guy?”

So let me back it up real quick w Dorsett:

Dorsett ran two sub 4.3’s at the combine. The NFL has been enamored w speed since forever. Even w ?able hands, they figured w that speed, they’ll work on his hands, his “potential” is there (And I’m going to go back to that word in a sec). It’s the same reason y Perriman, Ross, Menendez, Matthis, Goodwin all were drafted WELL above their collegiate production. Speed is a qualifier to be drafted, and I know fa sho, u ain’t never heard of Menedez or Matthis and u probably didn’t even know who John Ross was until the NFL Combine. Dorsett was drafted in the first round b/c not only did he wow the combine, but here’s a guy w speed AND he’s a Miami guy.

Miami has the reputation of putting out great prospects; and some guys were drafted based upon having that U on their helmet alone.
The staff did a great job in converting a 3 star WR in Njoku & converting him to TE. He became a physical freak, with great upside and questionable hands. Til this day he has questionable hands. But let’s address Walford & Njoku real quick:
What is Miami known for? TEs. ****, Jimmy Graham was drafted in the 3rd round after putting up a pedestrian 17 rec for 213 and 5 TDs in only one season. Why? B/c he played TE at the U and he had untapped potential as a prospect.

Getting drafted does not equate to development. Our guys are barely hanging around the league. Some of our players are drafted b/c of potential. It’s the reason y no name guys from USC, tOSU, Bama, Clemson, LSU, get drafted. For goodness sake, Matt Cassel was drafted and he played 3 snaps!! Why? B/c USC was producing QBs and he had potential.

Let’s use Chick as an example; Pittsburgh coaches wondered what happened to him at Miami. They transformed his body, moved him to LB, and he’s stayed in the league for a bit.....but this was a borderline 5 star guy that barely got drafted.

A lot of our guys started to get proper coaching at the NFL level, and a lot of our guys get drafted b/c of their potential and the school they attend. That’s the ONLY reason y Jeff Thomas is being considered as a draft pick. But the two are not synonymous. Redwine plays at Syracuse or WASU w his same production and he’s probably a UDFA.

I agree with all your points. Players can definitely get a bump in the draft because of their physical tools or the school they play for. Erik Swoope is a great example - TE from Miami that had a 5 yr NFL career and had never even played football.

But my question still remains - outside of the reasons you mentioned, can you (or anyone) name 1 Miami player who is a good example of "developement" while at Miami?

Go back to Butch. Go back 20-30 years if you need. I would think 2-3 guys would be easy to pull - but can anyone just name 1?

 

[rok]

UNC has Newsome and Brown who both went over 1k yards in 2019. Neither one had done much of anything prior to playing in a favorable offense with a talented QB. We saw what they did to Miami.

Our WRs probably aren't any better than UNC's in terms of overall ability, but they will look much improved under King and Lash.

The wildcard might be Knighton. I'll have more faith in Lashlee if he finds a way to get him on the field in a receiving role.

 

[Rellyrell]

I agree with all your points. Players can definitely get a bump in the draft because of their physical tools or the school they play for. Erik Swoope is a great example - TE from Miami that had a 5 yr NFL career and had never even played football.

But my question still remains - outside of the reasons you mentioned, can you (or anyone) name 1 Miami player who is a good example of "developement" while at Miami?

Go back to Butch. Go back 20-30 years if you need. I would think 2-3 guys would be easy to pull - but can anyone just name 1?

Santana Moss, Ed Reed, Jonathan Vilma, Brandon Meriweather, Eric Winston, Warren Sapp, Clinton Portis

Off the top of the dome. I know I’m missing hella much, but literally just woke up for work. Lol

 

[The Franchise]

The defense was statistically worse because the offense was scoring so fast and so much, they had to defend more opponent possessions. You also tend to relax a bit as a defender when you’re up 30 points in the third quarter. I’m curious what their per play average was. You can still play great defense but the law of averages says the more possessions you give an opponent, the more yards/points you’re going to surrender. They essentially went from winning games 17-14 to 48-24.

Yep. I've warned our fans that our defense will likely suffer statistically with Lashlee going at a breakneck pace. Hopefully, Manure won't get spooked and try to slow Lashlee down in order to make his baby not suffer statistically.

 

[DTP]

I’d like to see. Mallory used as a wideout more too. He’s proven capable and I’d like to see him used more than just when Brevin comes out of the game

 

[The Franchise]

I’d like to see. Mallory used as a wideout more too. He’s proven capable and I’d like to see him used more than just when Brevin comes out of the game

If Lashlee's who we hope he is, then Mallory will be split out all the time.

 

[bshaw28]

Santana Moss, Ed Reed, Jonathan Vilma, Brandon Meriweather, Eric Winston, Warren Sapp, Clinton Portis

Off the top of the dome. I know I’m missing hella much, but literally just woke up for work. Lol

I agree with you. Again, I'm in the evaluation is much more important than development camp - and I think that's reflected in the players you named. But I do think development contributed to their success.

I just have some issues with how the "development" argument is presented most of the time. It seems like if we're not a NC type team, or the player doesn't become a 1st Round draft pick - then development isn't happening at all. It's all or nothing.

To me, just because the Miami teams weren't great, or these guys weren't pro-bowlers - doesn't mean guys like Hankerson, Walford, Franklin weren't at least partly successful due to their development while at Miami. But these guys, or any player the last 15 years, never seem to get mentioned.

 

[rsa coral gables]

The Enos hire was a head scratcher. Manny talked about bringing in an offensive coach to match the aggression on the defense and then hired the absolute opposite. I was nervous that he’d try to make us Arkansas but during off season interviews, he talked up a “spread coast” offense and I got excited. Then the first game rolled around and we were Arkansas.

my read in retrospect is that Enos screwed Diaz. Knowing that Diaz wanted an uptempo, dynamic offense (before the season started Enos said we would be "multiple", fast and dynamic), i would venture to say that Enos told him that he would run THAT type of offense and Diaz, being a rookie, was taken for a ride. to read someone, don't listen to their words, look at their actions. if diaz had done that, he would have known that Enos was not going to change after 20 plus years coaching.

 

[rsa coral gables]

I’ll ask again. What did LSU do different?

Joe Brady wasn’t even their OC

correct, but he got the OC (a relatively "old" man) to change his offensive philosophy and play calling.

 

[DTP]

my read in retrospect is that Enos screwed Diaz. Knowing that Diaz wanted an uptempo, dynamic offense (before the season started Enos said we would be "multiple", fast and dynamic), i would venture to say that Enos told him that he would run THAT type of offense and Diaz, being a rookie, was taken for a ride. to read someone, don't listen to their words, look at their actions. if diaz had done that, he would have known that Enos was not going to change after 20 plus years coaching.

I was expecting something similar to what Alabama ran in 2017. They didn't operate at lighting pace but you would definitely call their offense a spread system. It looked nothing like what Enos ran at Miami. Enos literally dusted off his old Arkansas playbook and slapped a U on it.

 

[The Franchise]

I agree with you. Again, I'm in the evaluation is much more important than development camp - and I think that's reflected in the players you named. But I do think development contributed to their success.

I just have some issues with how the "development" argument is presented most of the time. It seems like if we're not a NC type team, or the player doesn't become a 1st Round draft pick - then development isn't happening at all. It's all or nothing.

To me, just because the Miami teams weren't great, or these guys weren't pro-bowlers - doesn't mean guys like Hankerson, Walford, Franklin weren't at least partly successful due to their development while at Miami. But these guys, or any player the last 15 years, never seem to get mentioned.

I don't think anyone questions that some of our players got better while they were here. That happens everywhere.

I think the "development" versus "evaluation" argument centers around how much of that improvement is attributable to coaches "developing" them (whatever that means) or to natural maturity (physical and mental development) and hard work by the players themselves. It's hard for me to give too much credit to coaches for selectively "developing" some players that improve while they don't "develop" the other guys who don't improve.

I think the coaches deserve credit for selecting (evaluating) the right guys and having a good system in place that emphasizes the players' strengths. I don't think any coaches in football have any magic pixie development dust. Some are just better at selecting/evaluating and putting players in systems that showcase their strengths.