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Takeaway from the coach’s roundtable on ESPNU

Empirical Cane said:
Agree with both yourself and DTP. The bottle broke and the lightning is gone. With each disaster season, his brand diminishes further.

Speaks volumes of the total team concept--coaches, scheme, strong units as great sum than parts, etc.

It is evident something is missing.

I don't follow recruiting like some here, are LA amd SF considered areas where you swing a dead cat and can hit xxxx 5* players? You would think yes considering the metro size, varied demographic makeup, and ability to play year round.
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There's a ton of talent in LA, but UCLA is probably 5th in line or lower for that talent these days.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
First of all, no one said anyone sucks if they don’t make a pro bowl. You sound ridiculous for writing that. Secondly, pointing to one guy doesn’t make the all pro argument flawed. Why don’t you look at how many total guys have been all pro the past decade? It’s a big number. Suggesting David proves anything is logically flawed.

And your second paragraph is just spin and deflection. You guys are trying to use nfl blah blah to tell a narrative about Um talent but when called on it you refuse to actually consider why your blah blah may be a misleading picture of UM talent. It’s just intellectually dishonest. If you want to talk about nfl in the context of what it means for Um, take the time to actually think it through better. How does it really explain our talent by year? What about depth, what about roster holes, what about experience?

Again, not one person worth responding to has said our coaching has been anything but awful the past decade-plus. But the obvious truth is that terrible coaches were not good evaluators. and managed our rosters poorly also. The point is that all this needs to be fixed if we want to be competitive again. Saying we shouldn’t lose to LA Tech is wasted discussion. Of course we shouldn’t.
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What’s misleading about it? No one is saying Miami talent hasn’t declined since when it had the best teams ever in college... It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out or say that. however miami is still producing players at a really high rate. Additionally most of the people on this side of the argument aren’t even saying overall that we have elite talent to win a title or annually go to the playoffs BUT it’s assuredly good enough to do better than the middling results we see most of these seasons lately... Those draft results show Miami is underachieving
 
The Franchise said:
It's odd to me that the thing that made Chip hot--the high-octane, super fast paced spread--is nowhere to be seen in his current approach at UCLA. It just doesn't make a lot of sense, but maybe he thought football caught up to and figured out the old Oregon frenetic tempo spread he ran.

Additionally, I think he's getting killed in recruiting too because he's got a bad personality and doesn't want to suck up to kids. He thinks the kids should be sucking up to him.
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Yea chip tried to intentionally step away from the oregon stuff, its been mentioned a few times by people who follow ucla closely ( I am not that keen on them) but its tough to get answers from him as he is terrible with media, boosters, recruits, etc.

I know Malzahn mentioned it in his book from early 2000s, and has been quoted multiple times in last few years. Some of the appeal and effectiveness of HUNH was fact it was a novelty. When more teams run it, it loses its effectiveness. That is the curse of success. When you watch spread 1.0 and see how much chunk plays these guys created with simple read options, tempo and constraint plays like screens, its hilarious. Dudes built entire careers off of that and banked MILLIONS. Amazing
 
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brock said:
What’s misleading about it? No one is saying Miami talent hasn’t declined since when it had the best teams ever in college... It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out or say that. however miami is still producing players at a really high rate. Additionally most of the people on this side of the argument aren’t even saying overall that we have elite talent to win a title or annually go to the playoffs BUT it’s assuredly good enough to do better than the middling results we see most of these seasons lately... Those draft results show Miami is underachieving
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Saddest thing to me, is we are slow af. Our speed used to be feared. And most of these spread guys love speed, from urban wanting fastest team in america, Malzahn has recruited track guys, When Baylor was dropping 60 Briles had heavy emphasis on speed, Those Oregon teams were about it also, hopefully our offensive staff brings that back as premium because wtf man.
 
Empirical Cane said:
It's a game of inches and microseconds, but his athletes can't be that bad can they?

And they play in PAC 12. How hard can it be?
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His classes are amongst the worst in Power 5, they have a serious lack of talent. I also think he has been passed up offensively.
 
DMoney said:
What do the NFL draft numbers tell you about evaluations?
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You’re still trying to fight having an actual discussion about a topic you keep trolling “data” on. Why do this?

the nfl “data” is flawed as a measure of our actual roster talent at Miami for reasons I have mentioned and you persistently ignore.

The nfl outcomes for our kids recruited the past decade arguably suggests we’re not good at evals - but that‘s a complicated variable set to infer anything from. More relevant would be comparing outcomes to recruiting rankings, which you persistently harp on - that would more likely syggest our evals are mediocre. Or you could just open your eyes, and pay attention to our actual rosters and teams. It’s worthy of having a discussion about evals, I think, but you’d have to stop trolling and actually be willing to have the discussion for it to be worthwhile, imo.
 
skyman said:
Yea chip tried to intentionally step away from the oregon stuff, its been mentioned a few times by people who follow ucla closely ( I am not that keen on them) but its tough to get answers from him as he is terrible with media, boosters, recruits, etc.

I know Malzahn mentioned it in his book from early 2000s, and has been quoted multiple times in last few years. Some of the appeal and effectiveness of HUNH was fact it was a novelty. When more teams run it, it loses its effectiveness. That is the curse of success. When you watch spread 1.0 and see how much chunk plays these guys created with simple read options, tempo and constraint plays like screens, its hilarious. Dudes built entire careers off of that and banked MILLIONS. Amazing
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Well said. The game evolves at a much faster pace than most fans even realize. I mean we have people here who think all spread offenses are the same offense still. TV commentators don’t know the difference between an RPO and a zone read still. But defensive coordinators do. What worked perfectly 10 years ago has been solved by defensive coaches today. Offensive coaches need to evolve and adjust and add wrinkles constantly or risk getting stagnant. The game has changed on both sides. It’s not about controlling the clock and grinding out possessions anymore. It’s about getting more chances to score than your opponent. With offenses becoming harder and harder to stop, it’s all about getting turnovers now. Statistically, you’re not going to just shut down anybody these days unless there’s a huge talent gap so defenses have to get more creative too
 
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brock said:
What’s misleading about it? No one is saying Miami talent hasn’t declined since when it had the best teams ever in college... It doesn’t take Einstein to figure that out or say that. however miami is still producing players at a really high rate. Additionally most of the people on this side of the argument aren’t even saying overall that we have elite talent to win a title or annually go to the playoffs BUT it’s assuredly good enough to do better than the middling results we see most of these seasons lately... Those draft results show Miami is underachieving
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Is this real life? Who is contending we haven’t ‘underperformed’? I am pretty sure I have been more negative on our coaching staffs earlier than you or DMoney the past 18 years.

What’s going in here is you guys are flailing at having a logical discussion. Your effort to dismiss nfl all pro data as irrelevant because of lavonte david is ridiculous. Your logical responses are not strong.

The reality at Miami, which I have pointed out for years upon years now, is that our crap staffs have been bad at evals and roster management, too. Unfilled scholarships, holes in the roster that are big issues, positions groups that are issues, youth and inexperience, lack of redshirting and development, kids who are bad fits for us even if talented ’in general’, kids who cannot get in, kids who cannot stay in, etc. Evals encompass a lot more than whether a kid has potential. It encompasses whether he fits your team and whether he will achieve his potential. The job of the coach is to hafe an effective roster in the fall, not just show up on some recruiting list in Feb.

Our actual game-ready rosters at UM have been worse than you’d think if you just looked at nfl info. And yes, they’ve been terribly coached, too.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Our actual game-ready rosters at UM have been worse than you’d think if you just looked at nfl info. And yes, they’ve been terribly coached, too.
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While I agree with this -- Mike Williams, Corey King, 3 true freshmen starting LBs, Malik Rosier, Robert Knowles, Zion Nelson, Feagles and Baxa, to name a few -- I still think there was enough talent to expect to beat most of the teams we've lost to over the past decade.

Really, more often than not, since Butch left, this team has endured bad recruiting, bad evals, bad roster management, bad development, and bad game-day coaching. If not all at the same time, enough bad that it offset the good to the point where we grossly under-performed against the competition we played.
 
grover said:
While I agree with this -- Mike Williams, Corey King, 3 true freshmen starting LBs, Malik Rosier, Robert Knowles, Zion Nelson, Feagles and Baxa, to name a few -- I still think there was enough talent to expect to beat most of the teams we've lost to over the past decade.

Really, more often than not, since Butch left, this team has endured bad recruiting, bad evals, bad roster management, bad development, and bad game-day coaching. If not all at the same time, enough bad that it offset the good to the point where we grossly under-performed against the competition we played.
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Of course there was. But that’s partly because we play a **** schedule most years. If we are going to discuss what needs fixing to be relevant, not just to beat Bama, we should be honest about it, imo, not delude ourselves by pointing to misleading lists. The actual talent we fielded in the 2010s was embarrassingly below what it should have been, based on who we signed, who we didn’t sign but should have, who we tried to sign but lost on, and based on our program and its history. For the Nth time, I will point out that Miami put out better nfl talent out in the 1970s than 2010s. That’s inexcusable!
 
One of my issues with Diaz is that he hasn't shown or given any inclination that he can evaluate the lightly recruited kids well enough or win the recruiting battles of the elite players - Greg Rousseau and Avante Williams aside. Our 11th through 44th best players are not good enough. Winning will raise our floor, but winning isn't a prerequisite to getting better talent. Basketball programs like Texas Tech and Baylor have shown success with transfers and think we can do the same this year with Bolden, Phillips, King, Roche and Borregales but those high level athletes won't continually be available through the portal.

The 2017 defensive recruiting class set Miami back. Jury is still out on the 2018 class, but no linebackers in '18 puts excessive pressure on Brooks and Huff to be contributors. Tyler Johnson and Ja'Corey Hammet have been asked to be pass rushers and set edge by playing close to the line of scrimmage more than be LBs who drop in coverage, go sideline to sideline, or stop the run as the 2nd line of defense.

I don't know how much stock Diaz puts into athleticism when making evaluations but we certainly need more quicker, faster, smoother athletes as well.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Of course there was. But that’s partly because we play a **** schedule most years. If we are going to discuss what needs fixing to be relevant, not just to beat Bama, we should be honest about it, imo, not delude ourselves by pointing to misleading lists. The actual talent we fielded in the 2010s was embarrassingly below what it should have been, based on who we signed, who we didn’t sign but should have, who we tried to sign but lost on, and based on our program and its history. For the Nth time, I will point out that Miami put out better nfl talent out in the 1970s than 2010s. That’s inexcusable!
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Because of Garbage coaching, and terrible evaluations...
 
AllAboutTheU said:
I think they will actually as the NCAA changes the transfer rule and Miami should benefit from this new rule.
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Even with the NCAA changing transfer rules, Bolden, King, Roche, and Phillips are four of the best 15-20 athletes on Miami's roster. Those type of transfers won't continually be available IMO nor will they be seamless fits. If we get lucky enough to pull 2 guys like that every cycle, they only make up 7-12% of the roster. Manny has done a great job with the portal, but the front end of roster management is what's lacking
 
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Kyle Liburd said:
Even with the NCAA changing transfer rules, Bolden, King, Roche, and Phillips are four of the best 15-20 athletes on Miami's roster. Those type of transfers won't continually be available IMO nor will they be seamless fits. If we get lucky enough to pull 2 guys like that every cycle, they only make up 7-12% of the roster. Manny has done a great job with the portal, but the front end of roster management is what's lacking
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I agree that the front end of the roster management has to improve substantially. We may not land 5 impact transfers each year, but I think this caliber of talent will be available to Miami each year and they should be able to capitalize on it.
 
AllAboutTheU said:
I agree that the front end of the roster management has to improve substantially. We may not land 5 impact transfers each year, but I think this caliber of talent will be available to Miami each year and they should be able to capitalize on it.
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Agree. Don't have a problem taking those chances especially since we haven't been able to reach 85 scholarship players in forever.
 
AllAboutTheU said:
I agree that the front end of the roster management has to improve substantially. We may not land 5 impact transfers each year, but I think this caliber of talent will be available to Miami each year and they should be able to capitalize on it.
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This is spot on. It’s also why our talent has been less than the ’nfl lists’ might be used to imply. We continuously have empty spots, big holes, often on the line, terrible QBing, insufficient experience, depth and competition, and too few 4th and 5th year guys playing key roles. A couple kids a year getting drafted doesn't change that picture.
 
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