Someone Educate Me

[OriginalCanesCanesCanes]

Tell that to the above commies.

This is just a lot of retardation for one poster.

No wonder you’re against college educations. You’re so ignorant you want others to join you in your misery.

LOL - commies? Says the weakling who blames his failures in life on his college loans. Just because you can’t cut it doesn’t mean everyone else is a loser like you.

 

[Loose Cannon]

This is just a lot of retardation for one poster.

No wonder you’re against college educations. You’re so ignorant you want others to join you in your misery.

LOL - commies? Says the weakling who blames his failures in life on his college loans. Just because you can’t cut it doesn’t mean everyone else is a loser like you.

I know we’re not supposed to get political, but I guarantee you he voted for Bernie.

 

[TheChosenOne]

I agree this is likely, in some manner. The O'Bannon case began that a real possibility. The problem would be that it would take the "bag game" to a brand new level. This is a potentially VERY big deal. And it is pretty simple:

You are stud recruit. I am wealthy booster. I tell you I will pay you $100,000 for your likeness rights, if you come to X school. I have no intention of doing jack with your likeness, I'm just really buying your commitment and I can now do so out in the open. Now, you may Manziel-explode and I may then choose to actually market such rights, but that would never be an issue for almost all "student athletes" as they'll never be that big.

This would also a) completely sidestep Title IX, as this benefit/compensation does not come from the school b) allow boosters to effectively buy players without implicating the program and c) create legally taxable income for the players.

Again, it would be a very big deal. And Jeremy Bloom would be ****ED.

Nothing new. These boosters do it anyways. So... whats the problem?

I think the best way is to stop limiting the kids source of money. Jobs, Likeness, paid for autographs, hiring agents, endorsements, getting paid to do interviews, people buying a kid a meal, winning money in a contest etc. things other students aren't stripped of. It even more messed up when these football and basketball programs help pay for other programs in the school to stay afloat yet they're the ones handcuffed.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

That's the problem at a lot of these "schools". They GIVE them degrees, but don't actually educate them. They use these kids to make millions, and don't teach many of them a darn thing. God only knows what Alabama is injecting into their student athletes to make them bigger and stronger. It's a rotten system.

Yeah, these young men have a chance to get a real education, but many of them, if not most, have been used for their football skills since they were little. It's all they know. When they are given a chance to skate through school and play football, what do you think most of them do? It's human nature to take the path of least resistance.

It's a mess, and it needs to be reformed, somehow.

It's called parenting.

I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, and it's not that I don't disagree with some of what you say, but what you say is wrong is because of a corrupt system where the rules either aren't being enforced or are enforced selectively. We all know that there are many players at Bama that are getting paid. We also know that there is a system of joke classes and "tutors" set up to keep players eligible, not to mention out of jail. At the end of the day, it's not the "system" that is broken, and no it's not slavery, to call it that is an incredible insult to actual slaves. What is broken is fair play and justice. Jay Bilas should be ranting and raving about an NCAA that doesn't enforce it's own rules, and does so because of corruption and greed.

Clean up the cesspool and put the onus back on the players and their parents to make the right choices, the smart choices, and put themselves in a position to take what they can out of their college experience, whether they go pro in sports or not. That college degree is worth far more than a hundred grand.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

OP presupposes every football player is doomed to low paying, illiterate **** so why try to help educate them and give them a shot at lifetime employment.

It’s the worst kind of bigotry. The bigotry of low expectations.

Amen.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Yes, but med school deans, law school deans, physicists etc are lucky to see a quarter of that. **** I'd be shocked if Julio is clearing over 2/year. This business has become so large that priorities are completely out of line in this.

If intercollegiate athletics were legit, guys with NFL ability/talent would be able to go to an academy like with European Soccer at 16-18 and learn to become professional ballplayers.

In an ideal world, "college football" would look a lot more like a frat intramural. Guys who were admitted to the schools are STUDENTS only, no hyphens necessary, against the students of another school. Of course they'd be going pro in something else. The coach would make a professor salary (150-200k) and there wouldn't be any scholarships.

As it is now it's just a **** mess all the way around

This is an indictment on our society, not college athletics. It's not wrong to say that a surgeon should be paid more than a football coach, or Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or LeBron James, but that's the way it is these days. We have an immense demand for entertainment. Not only that, we actually give a **** what these entertainers tell us we should think about the world around us. Because George Clooney and Clint Eastwood and Johnny Depp and Chuck Norris have all the answers for us simpletons that weren't born with chiseled jaws and dreamy good looks, right?

Look, at the end of the day, college athletics is entertainment, and it is one **** of a great deal for basically everyone involved. The players are the ones that need the universities, not the other way around. Anyone who doesn't want to play college sports, doesn't have to. If you don't like the value of what a college scholarship has to offer, don't sign on the dotted line. Go play in Europe, or train for the draft on your own, whatever. But this notion that the players are being taken advantage of, while true, is completely bogus. Players who are given a full scholarship to play football have no one but themselves (and their "advisors") to blame when they don't get a good education, or take money on the side, or commit crimes and allow others to cover up for them.

 

[RangerGranger]

I know we’re not supposed to get political, but I guarantee you he voted for Bernie.

Being a bigot by saying they should get paid? I've heard dumber.

Get them an education, and pay them, or let them leave at 1 year. why? cuz baseball, nba, and others allow the same.

Education is not what it once was.

 

[OrdunaDrive]

I agree this is likely, in some manner. The O'Bannon case began that a real possibility. The problem would be that it would take the "bag game" to a brand new level. This is a potentially VERY big deal. And it is pretty simple:

You are stud recruit. I am wealthy booster. I tell you I will pay you $100,000 for your likeness rights, if you come to X school. I have no intention of doing jack with your likeness, I'm just really buying your commitment and I can now do so out in the open. Now, you may Manziel-explode and I may then choose to actually market such rights, but that would never be an issue for almost all "student athletes" as they'll never be that big.

This would also a) completely sidestep Title IX, as this benefit/compensation does not come from the school b) allow boosters to effectively buy players without implicating the program and c) create legally taxable income for the players.

Again, it would be a very big deal. And Jeremy Bloom would be ****ED.

I think Bag Men will have trouble leveling up once payments are in the open. Most of these guys are wealthy, but not obscenely so. Doctor with a nice practice. Lawyer at a top firm. Owner of a couple car dealerships. Nike/Adidas/UA would blow them out of the water for the top level guys, and it's not worth it as a fan (which is what bag men are) paying that much for 3* players. It would be interesting to watch how the shoe companies approached this. Would Georgia Tech become a power because Russell Athletic only represents 1 school, and could thus overbid for players? Would schools with uber wealthy alumni like Stanford, Duke, and Northwestern be able to attack talent that was previously out of their reach? It's fun to consider at least.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

In that scenario, sure.

I believe in apprenticeship to professionalism. ITS WHERE YOU GET PAID TO DO WORK AND LEARN. Who would have thought.

Instead, we just got trillions in student debt. Sounds like some kids were led astray. A LOT OF KIDS. It's a scam bro.

You're not wrong about this, man. The college student loan game is an absolute scam perpetrated on the American people by our own representatives and government. It has drastically bloated and inflated the cost of school far beyond reason and has drastically altered the calculus for the high school graduate considering going out into the work force or attending college. Unfortunately, social norms and understanding of this changing financial dynamic are slow to catch up. It's also a bit of a catch-22, because in many fields, unless one is a true innovator/entrepreneur, you basically are very limited in what you can do without that degree.

All of that said, it has nothing to do with this conversation as we are talking about football players who get their chance at that degree for free. And the value of a degree to an individual has still been shown statistically to far exceed the cost of said degree over the course of one's lifetime. But there are no guarantees in life and it can only be as good as the individual makes it. You get what you put in.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

It's not an either/or situation. Schools can do a better job of financially compensating student-athletes, while also doing everything they can to make sure those same people leave with degrees worth a ****. Frankly, colleges should get out of the minor league sports business, let the pro leagues run their own crap. Whether it is greasing kids through that can't read, or the bloated hierarchy that is collegiate athletics administration, college sports is an affront to higher education. Schools would be better off if the NBA/NFL had their own minor leagues, and kids that didn't want to attend college had somewhere to go after HS.

Vehemently disagree, as a former college athlete. Studies have shown that student-athletes get better grades, have better social lives and social skills, are better adjusted, etc, etc, etc.

The revenue sports have certainly perverted the equation to an extent, but they are a small drop in the bucket compared to all student athletes at 4 year colleges across the country.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

That doesn't make any sense. If the "school, or collection of schools" are contributing to an insurance pool, then the insurer is on the hook for millions, not the schools. That's the point of insurance.

You do understand that for insurance to work, the sum of all premiums, plus profit, must exceed the sum of all claims, don't you?

Obviously not. And this is why America is ****ed.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Yes the kids are getting a free education but why is no one addressing the real issue. Which is the presidents and companies making millions of dollars off these kids

Eyeroll...

 

[g8rh8rMD]

What gripes the crap out of me is that the ultimate beneficiary of all we are talking about is the NFL. Unlike baseball they have no minor league system expense. They just cherry pick the best of the best with no consideration or appreciation for cooperating with the colleges.

And why does that bother you? Do you resent the success of others?

 

[ThomasM]

There are literally millions of kids who would love to be given a free room, free food, free tutors, lax course schedules. They literally have NO ONE to blame but themselves. You cannot be handed any better of a situation unless you've EARNED a full academic ride and didn't play football on the side.

I'm not blaming the schools on this ones. It's on the parents to raise their kids well enough to take advantage of what's in front of them.[

It's called parenting.

I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, and it's not that I don't disagree with some of what you say, but what you say is wrong is because of a corrupt system where the rules either aren't being enforced or are enforced selectively. We all know that there are many players at Bama that are getting paid. We also know that there is a system of joke classes and "tutors" set up to keep players eligible, not to mention out of jail. At the end of the day, it's not the "system" that is broken, and no it's not slavery, to call it that is an incredible insult to actual slaves. What is broken is fair play and justice. Jay Bilas should be ranting and raving about an NCAA that doesn't enforce it's own rules, and does so because of corruption and greed.

Clean up the cesspool and put the onus back on the players and their parents to make the right choices, the smart choices, and put themselves in a position to take what they can out of their college experience, whether they go pro in sports or not. That college degree is worth far more than a hundred grand.

Some of these kids don't have parents worth a darn. Their parents are ignorant, in many cases. Absent in others. The so called institutions of higher learning, on the other hand, are NOT ignorant. They know full well how they are exploiting these many of these young men.

 

[OrdunaDrive]

This is an indictment on our society, not college athletics. It's not wrong to say that a surgeon should be paid more than a football coach, or Justin Bieber, Miley Cyrus, or LeBron James, but that's the way it is these days. We have an immense demand for entertainment. Not only that, we actually give a **** what these entertainers tell us we should think about the world around us. Because George Clooney and Clint Eastwood and Johnny Depp and Chuck Norris have all the answers for us simpletons that weren't born with chiseled jaws and dreamy good looks, right?

Look, at the end of the day, college athletics is entertainment, and it is one **** of a great deal for basically everyone involved. The players are the ones that need the universities, not the other way around. Anyone who doesn't want to play college sports, doesn't have to. If you don't like the value of what a college scholarship has to offer, don't sign on the dotted line. Go play in Europe, or train for the draft on your own, whatever. But this notion that the players are being taken advantage of, while true, is completely bogus. Players who are given a full scholarship to play football have no one but themselves (and their "advisors") to blame when they don't get a good education, or take money on the side, or commit crimes and allow others to cover up for them.

?

A couple of things to consider.

1) There are plenty of surgeons that make WAY more than football coaches. The difference between the two is that doctor's earnings aren't publicized in the "Medical" section of your local newspaper, and that you can be a ****** doctor (we all know plenty) and still make six figures, but if you're a ****** football coach you work at a middle school for 30K.

2) The issue I take with player compensation isn't that players are enslaved or mistreated, but that they are artificially separated from the value they produce in the name of Amateurism. Amateurs are amateurs because they are unpaid. This is circular logic.

 

[OrdunaDrive]

You do understand that for insurance to work, the sum of all premiums, plus profit, must exceed the sum of all claims, don't you?

Obviously not. And this is why America is ****ed.

I am well aware of that basic economic principle and believe that you grossly overestimate the cost of medical care for injuries incurred during the course of a college football career. Please do your level best to avoid personal insults.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

I am well aware of that basic economic principle and believe that you grossly overestimate the cost of medical care for injuries incurred during the course of a college football career. Please do your level best to avoid personal insults.

Here is what was said:
TheUBack said:
When the next Eric Legrand **** near kills himself, and it WILL happen, if the player is an employee that school, or the collection of schools contributing to the insurance pool will be on the hook for millions. If the players are "officially" paid that means game over.

The finances alone doom this idea. Now I think that universities shouldn't be in the business of running Farm Teams anyway but that's a different kettle of fish.

OrdunaDrive said:
That doesn't make any sense. If the "school, or collection of schools" are contributing to an insurance pool, then the insurer is on the hook for millions, not the schools. That's the point of insurance.

So, UBack said (essentially) that the cost of worker's comp insurance would doom the idea of treating players as employees (it being implicitly understood that paying them makes them employees, thus requiring this type of injury and disability insurance).

You said, and I'll paraphrase here (while quoting you above) for purposes of clarity, "That doesn't make any sense. If the school buys insurance, the cost of the claims is on the insurer, not the schools". I'm not sure how I misunderstood your statement, but you clearly seemed to indicate that the act of buying insurance would insulate the schools from the cost of the inevitable claims that would arise. To me, that seemed to indicate an incredible disconnect. So I pointed out how the math works.

I apologize if you are well aware of the economic principle behind insurance, but your previous post seemed to indicate otherwise. Based off of recent events and my personal interactions with others, I believe you are not alone in that misconception.

I do not believe that I personally insulted you, or anyone specifically, but do humbly apologize if you felt I did. You may note that I typically take great care to avoid doing so and have no interest in insulting anyone personally. I've got no beef with you, just with what you said in that one post.

Cheers

 

[Canezum5]

Yes, but med school deans, law school deans, physicists etc are lucky to see a quarter of that. **** I'd be shocked if Julio is clearing over 2/year. This business has become so large that priorities are completely out of line in this.

If intercollegiate athletics were legit, guys with NFL ability/talent would be able to go to an academy like with European Soccer at 16-18 and learn to become professional ballplayers.

In an ideal world, "college football" would look a lot more like a frat intramural. Guys who were admitted to the schools are STUDENTS only, no hyphens necessary, against the students of another school. Of course they'd be going pro in something else. The coach would make a professor salary (150-200k) and there wouldn't be any scholarships.

As it is now it's just a **** mess all the way around

nailed it

 

[g8rh8rMD]

?

2) The issue I take with player compensation isn't that players are enslaved or mistreated, but that they are artificially separated from the value they produce in the name of Amateurism. Amateurs are amateurs because they are unpaid. This is circular logic.

OK, what value do the players produce? How do you determine that? Which came first, the players, or the university's/teams? Take a great player, say Baker Mayfield, who is immensely popular and just won the Heisman and went 1/1 in the last NFL draft. How much "value" did he create for the University of Oklahoma? Would the team have ceased playing football had Baker decided to major in Biochemical Engineering and not play football? Would they have not won any games last year? Would no one have come to the games? Or would they have just found another QB to suit up and play?

People who make this argument see all of the TV revenues, ticket sales, coaches salaries, etc, and just assume that all of that "value" is created by the players themselves when, in fact, the players are actually highly replaceable, and much of the value is actually created by the capital that built the stadiums, made the uniforms, put together the flashy TV and myriad other media product, etc, etc, etc. The truth is, for every player who wants to be paid, there are a thousand more who literally go to bed every night in highschool DREAMING of the chance at a D1 scholarship.

If the value was truly in the player, someone would be building a minor league for football and paying these players the "value they produce" (or, because there still needs to be profit, because, well, science, a portion of that value after capital costs, overhead, taxes, profit, etc) to skip college and go pro straight out of high school or even sooner. The trouble is, no one would go to those games. And that's because it's the colleges themselves that actually produce most of the interest and the "value".

The fact of the matter is, D1 college athletes are getting a great deal. Are they getting the full "free market value" that they produce? No, almost certainly not. No one does, not even Elon freaking Musk. That's not how the world works. And even if we were to go about determining exactly how much "value" a college athlete produces, it would be nearly impossible to do so. Bottom line, at the end of the day, it is a "free market", black market included. The student-athletes have the choice to participate in the system or not. As to the 3 year rule, that is the NFL's decision, not the NCAA's, go ***** to that ape Goodell about that, it has nothing to do with college football. College football can't keep players in school. Guys can leave whenever they please.

 

[CFLCane]

It's called parenting.

I know I'm gonna get slammed for this, and it's not that I don't disagree with some of what you say, but what you say is wrong is because of a corrupt system where the rules either aren't being enforced or are enforced selectively. We all know that there are many players at Bama that are getting paid. We also know that there is a system of joke classes and "tutors" set up to keep players eligible, not to mention out of jail. At the end of the day, it's not the "system" that is broken, and no it's not slavery, to call it that is an incredible insult to actual slaves. What is broken is fair play and justice. Jay Bilas should be ranting and raving about an NCAA that doesn't enforce it's own rules, and does so because of corruption and greed.

Clean up the cesspool and put the onus back on the players and their parents to make the right choices, the smart choices, and put themselves in a position to take what they can out of their college experience, whether they go pro in sports or not. That college degree is worth far more than a hundred grand.

The NCAA is incapable of fixing that it's way over their head, they are the equivalent a local Sheriff dept from a town of 200 people tasked with policing Chicago. Colleges are for profit and they exploit non athletes just as much with fluff classes, and credits that don't transfer.