Since D'nofrio isn't going anywhere...

[Hurracanes]

Yards are just yards? Did you not watch the last 8 years of Miami Hurricanes football? History shows that you are not going to win a game if your Defense can't get off the field.

Saban swears by scoring defense.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Everyone in the world agrees that scoring D is more important than Total D. But next time you and Saban chat ask him if he thinks you're likely to have a great scoring D if you're giving up a ton of yards every week. THAT is the issue that UM fans with brains have. If we were 20th in Total D and 7th in scoring D we'd be very happy. But you'll never have a great scoring D when you're giving up a ton of yards like we do.

Saban swears by scoring defense.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Now you are just repeating yourself. What is your point? Is this information even accurate?

.... And being an extremely credible authority we can trust his analysis. There's not much else I can say to help you understand.

You're just pointing out an obvious statistic. Scoring Defense is arguably the most important stat of them all; however, that doesn't mean it is the only stat that matters. You can't give up 500 yards a game and expect for the Defense to keep scoring to a minimum.

 

[cowboycane]

That 2004 Virginia defense had Chris Canty, Ahmad Brooks, Kai Parham...grown *** men who played like grown *** men.

Bottom line is they WERE talented and STILL got their brakes beat off by Miami, FSU and VTech...we need to be a **** of a lot better than that team was.

 

[The Franchise]

I can also see the obvious parallel to D'Atonio and Narduzzi at MSU because those 2 are greaseballs too. And they had historically bad defenses at MSU, then in year 4 they turned it completely around.

Don't forget year 6 and 7.

Oh. I won't. I think it's a great parallel. MSU's defense was horrific under those guys prior to this great season right? Wasn't it? It was just like ours at the bottom of the ncaa rankings right?

It was pretty much EXACTLY like ours the first 3 seasons, so yeah there's that. Don't be upset tho, i was saying there is hope. If you have none, cool.

Let me first give you some perspective before I call you a liar. Do you know who the corch at MSU was before Dantonio? John L. Smith. He was known for playing no defense at all. Here are MSU's defensive rankings the two years prior to Dantonio taking over:

2005--87th
2006--88th

So, unlike Al's situation here where he took over a good defense, Dantonio took over a horrible defense.

Now, on to you being a liar. You said the stats were "pretty much EXACTLY" the same Dantonio's first 3 years at MSU as Al's here at UM. Here are MSU's defensive stats his first 3 years after taking over the 88th ranked defense:

2007--32nd
2008--58th
2009--73rd

Not pretty much exactly the same. And when you view it in proper perspective (i.e., taking over for a guy who paid no attention at all to defense in John L. Smith and taking over a program in MSU that is NOT a marquee program like UM is), your posts look foolish.

 

[WestEndZone]

Saban swears by scoring defense.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Everyone in the world agrees that scoring D is more important than Total D. But next time you and Saban chat ask him if he thinks you're likely to have a great scoring D if you're giving up a ton of yards every week. THAT is the issue that UM fans with brains have. If we were 20th in Total D and 7th in scoring D we'd be very happy. But you'll never have a great scoring D when you're giving up a ton of yards like we do.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Now you are just repeating yourself. What is your point? Is this information even accurate?

.... And being an extremely credible authority we can trust his analysis. There's not much else I can say to help you understand.

You're just pointing out an obvious statistic. Scoring Defense is arguably the most important stat of them all; however, that doesn't mean it is the only stat that matters. You can't give up 500 yards a game and expect for the Defense to keep scoring to a minimum.

I agree. Let's take a second and think about what teams, defenses set out to do. Do they set out to be the best at one statistic rather than the other? No. They want to be good, they want to be great. What we are trying to answer on this thread right now is: what is the superior statistic to serve as a barometer for your defense? The stats are closely related.

Any team that gives up 500 yards a game is going to ranked low in both categories -- that's obvious. Any team that gives up 100 yards per game is going to be high in both categories. If you had to choose one category to win at, which would it be? Whichever you picked, it's probably a good choice.

But at the end of the day what matters are the numbers on the scoreboard.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

Same ole ****...any team with a pulse on that schedule and he loses.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

I can also see the obvious parallel to D'Atonio and Narduzzi at MSU because those 2 are greaseballs too. And they had historically bad defenses at MSU, then in year 4 they turned it completely around.

Don't forget year 6 and 7.

Oh. I won't. I think it's a great parallel. MSU's defense was horrific under those guys prior to this great season right? Wasn't it? It was just like ours at the bottom of the ncaa rankings right?

It was pretty much EXACTLY like ours the first 3 seasons, so yeah there's that. Don't be upset tho, i was saying there is hope. If you have none, cool.

Let me first give you some perspective before I call you a liar. Do you know who the corch at MSU was before Dantonio? John L. Smith. He was known for playing no defense at all. Here are MSU's defensive rankings the two years prior to Dantonio taking over:

2005--87th
2006--88th

So, unlike Al's situation here where he took over a good defense, Dantonio took over a horrible defense.

Now, on to you being a liar. You said the stats were "pretty much EXACTLY" the same Dantonio's first 3 years at MSU as Al's here at UM. Here are MSU's defensive stats his first 3 years after taking over the 88th ranked defense:

2007--32nd
2008--58th
2009--73rd

Not pretty much exactly the same. And when you view it in proper perspective (i.e., taking over for a guy who paid no attention at all to defense in John L. Smith and taking over a program in MSU that is NOT a marquee program like UM is), your posts look foolish.

Golden didnt take over a marquee program either.

 

[niner]

I can also see the obvious parallel to D'Atonio and Narduzzi at MSU because those 2 are greaseballs too. And they had historically bad defenses at MSU, then in year 4 they turned it completely around.

Don't forget year 6 and 7.

Oh. I won't. I think it's a great parallel. MSU's defense was horrific under those guys prior to this great season right? Wasn't it? It was just like ours at the bottom of the ncaa rankings right?

It was pretty much EXACTLY like ours the first 3 seasons, so yeah there's that. Don't be upset tho, i was saying there is hope. If you have none, cool.

Let me first give you some perspective before I call you a liar. Do you know who the corch at MSU was before Dantonio? John L. Smith. He was known for playing no defense at all. Here are MSU's defensive rankings the two years prior to Dantonio taking over:

2005--87th
2006--88th

So, unlike Al's situation here where he took over a good defense, Dantonio took over a horrible defense.

Now, on to you being a liar. You said the stats were "pretty much EXACTLY" the same Dantonio's first 3 years at MSU as Al's here at UM. Here are MSU's defensive stats his first 3 years after taking over the 88th ranked defense:

2007--32nd
2008--58th
2009--73rd

Not pretty much exactly the same. And when you view it in proper perspective (i.e., taking over for a guy who paid no attention at all to defense in John L. Smith and taking over a program in MSU that is NOT a marquee program like UM is), your posts look foolish.

Before you get crazy with the calling anyone a liar. Take a look again at the stats that I put down.

SO if you wanna jump around every stat that makes you look like you know what you are discussing. Lets take a look at the MOST important stat, WINS. How does that compare to what MSU had versus what UM had, before Dantonio and before Golden. How does that stat look like? How does the wins stat look like their first 3 years, both of them.

No worries, I'll wait.

 

[niner]

Here bro, I did ALL the work for you.

This marquee program was 28-22 under Shannon.

The coach at MSU you are referring to was 22-26.

I don't think ANY of these teams were "marquee" programs.

Dantonio' first 3 seasons at MSU - 22-17 (2 extra bowl losses)
Goldens first 3 seasons at UM - 22-15

 

[The Franchise]

Here bro, I did ALL the work for you.

This marquee program was 28-22 under Shannon.

The coach at MSU you are referring to was 22-26.

I don't think ANY of these teams were "marquee" programs.

Dantonio' first 3 seasons at MSU - 22-17 (2 extra bowl losses)
Goldens first 3 seasons at UM - 22-15

Your posts are infantile. UM is a marquee program. Just like Bama, LSU, Texas, USC, and OU were when they were mired in long losing eras. MSU is NOT and never will be a marquee program. UM has won 5 NCs in the last 3 decades. Just because a couple loser corches have bogged UM down doesn't mean UM isn't a marquee program. The recruiting base is the best in the country.

You young simps don't know any better because your college football history goes back to 2004. So you don't know what a marquee program is.

 

[The Franchise]

Don't forget year 6 and 7.

Oh. I won't. I think it's a great parallel. MSU's defense was horrific under those guys prior to this great season right? Wasn't it? It was just like ours at the bottom of the ncaa rankings right?

It was pretty much EXACTLY like ours the first 3 seasons, so yeah there's that. Don't be upset tho, i was saying there is hope. If you have none, cool.

Let me first give you some perspective before I call you a liar. Do you know who the corch at MSU was before Dantonio? John L. Smith. He was known for playing no defense at all. Here are MSU's defensive rankings the two years prior to Dantonio taking over:

2005--87th
2006--88th

So, unlike Al's situation here where he took over a good defense, Dantonio took over a horrible defense.

Now, on to you being a liar. You said the stats were "pretty much EXACTLY" the same Dantonio's first 3 years at MSU as Al's here at UM. Here are MSU's defensive stats his first 3 years after taking over the 88th ranked defense:

2007--32nd
2008--58th
2009--73rd

Not pretty much exactly the same. And when you view it in proper perspective (i.e., taking over for a guy who paid no attention at all to defense in John L. Smith and taking over a program in MSU that is NOT a marquee program like UM is), your posts look foolish.

Golden didnt take over a marquee program either.

He sure did. Just like Pete Carroll did at USC and Stoops at OU and Meyer at uf.aag and Saban and LSU and Bama. The results weren't marquee, but the program is.

 

[niner]

Here bro, I did ALL the work for you.

This marquee program was 28-22 under Shannon.

The coach at MSU you are referring to was 22-26.

I don't think ANY of these teams were "marquee" programs.

Dantonio' first 3 seasons at MSU - 22-17 (2 extra bowl losses)
Goldens first 3 seasons at UM - 22-15

Your posts are infantile. UM is a marquee program. Just like Bama, LSU, Texas, USC, and OU were when they were mired in long losing eras. MSU is NOT and never will be a marquee program. UM has won 5 NCs in the last 3 decades. Just because a couple loser corches have bogged UM down doesn't mean UM isn't a marquee program. The recruiting base is the best in the country.

You young simps don't know any better because your college football history goes back to 2004. So you don't know what a marquee program is.

Once again, a team that is not winning and hasn't won anything in 13 years is not a marquee program. We were once and are trying to get back there, but not yet.

It's time to wake up, stop living in the past. History is great, we all love it, we want more of it.

 

[Ghandi]

So that DS/T sucked.

And I see a trend here...

Any team with a pulse whooped that teams ***. Just like the Miamah Hurricants of the last threes years.

 

[supacane]

No team that holds the opponent to minimal yards is gonna give up a lot of points. ..unless the offense turns over the ball very very much in scoring position. And no team that gives up a lot of yards is gonna stop the opponent from scoring. ...unless the opponent turns over the ball a lot in the opposing redzone or close or simply kicks nothing but FGs. And those are simply wishful thinking. Bar UF no team did that against us, they kept scoring of gashing us for yards. Fact is teams that are terrible at certain things are usually terrible at most things. We are ranked in the 100s in a lot of different categories for a reason. Very few things we were even decent at. Decent job at getting TOs and thats about it. At some point we have to stop the opponent from getting yards. Maybe then we will be able to stop complaining about the D being on the field all game and blaming other units. And we can actually keep our depthless team fresh.....just an idea

 

[NVA CANE]

Lulz at beating your chest at the scoring defense and disregarding yards allowed per game. What did that great scoring defense get us in 2011? A 6-6 record. Here is my question, if you can stop a team from gaining yards then you prevent them from scoring is that what you would want?

A perfect example of the two philosophies was the Russell Athletic Bowl. People actually believed we fielded a good defense because we were allowing field goals but preventing touchdowns.
On the other side was UL not allowing our offense within 30 yards of their endzone. The result. Zero points by our offense until late in the 4th quarter.

By the second half our defense was exhausted because we couldn't force a punt and our offense couldn't stay on the field.

If you had to choose which defense would you want?

Golden runs a garbage defensive philosophy. Its soft and the players aren't buying in. 2014 will finally prove it to all the Golden worshipers.

 

[weownfsu]

Only a psychotic Gordito sycophant would try to argue that a stat reflecting how well a team stops the other team from moving the ball is worthless or not important.

 

[DaU83]

Yards are just yards? Did you not watch the last 8 years of Miami Hurricanes football? History shows that you are not going to win a game if your Defense can't get off the field.

Saban swears by scoring defense.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Everyone in the world agrees that scoring D is more important than Total D. But next time you and Saban chat ask him if he thinks you're likely to have a great scoring D if you're giving up a ton of yards every week. THAT is the issue that UM fans with brains have. If we were 20th in Total D and 7th in scoring D we'd be very happy. But you'll never have a great scoring D when you're giving up a ton of yards like we do.

the new england patriots are i think 9th or 10th in scoring D but 26th? in total D.. are they a top ten defense or no?

 

[WestEndZone]

Saban swears by scoring defense.

What is that suppose to mean?

Nick Saban, who is an incredibly credible authority, is a proponent of the opinion that scoring defense is a superior stat to total defense.

Everyone in the world agrees that scoring D is more important than Total D. But next time you and Saban chat ask him if he thinks you're likely to have a great scoring D if you're giving up a ton of yards every week. THAT is the issue that UM fans with brains have. If we were 20th in Total D and 7th in scoring D we'd be very happy. But you'll never have a great scoring D when you're giving up a ton of yards like we do.

the new england patriots are i think 9th or 10th in scoring D but 26th? in total D.. are they a top ten defense or no?

Yes. You said it.

They're also playing for the AFC Championship.

 

[niner]

GOOD LORD! No one can post an optimistic comment. It was pretty simple and just a stat out of many. You say you believe one thing (scoring) is more important than another (yards) and, poof, wala, you all of a sudden dont care about yards, all of a sudden you dont care about total defense.

I gave the example of Auburn, which allowed almost as much yards as we did (3 yards less per game), yet they are in a championship game. Yards is not all that matters. Your O matters, your special teams matters, your defense creating turnover matters, defense getting stops matters. All of it matters, and with a little luck, its game on, its not just any one stat.

Not really infantile but just a little sarcastic. Being called a "liar" by an internet guy when not even replying to what I was commenting on, got me a little defensive, I get sarcastic when I get defensive.

 

[52CANES]

Yards are just yards. I really care about the points we give up. When the majority of your best players are freshmen and sophomores, it takes some time to learn.

Our best players are now becoming sophomores and juniors, with experience. Should help improve the D alone.

Yards are just yards? Did you not watch the last 8 years of Miami Hurricanes football? History shows that you are not going to win a game if your Defense can't get off the field.

Saban swears by scoring defense.

Never seen any quote that says this, but it's funny that his teams don't give up any yardage and have ranked as some of the best in Total D in the BCS era.

I don't know about swearing by it, but I remember reading in an LSU 2001 saban playbook how his defensive goal was like 12ppg. Not give up less than 325yds...of course that was 12 years ago...

I would assume most good defenses rank well in both.

 

[Awsi Dooger]

I don't understand the obsession with exceptions. Invariably when someone makes a pronouncement, there's a scramble to find an exception. And if someone does locate something, it's as if the conversation is supposed to end and the point rebuked.

The focus should be on the rule. Nothing is absolute. Who cares about the outlier 2% or 5% or 10%?

I watch tons of golf. Judy Rankin is a great former player and now a respected commentator. When her colleague last year asked if she would go back and change something in her game based on watching so much golf from the booth, she didn't hesitate and said she would. Judy said she would do, "what works for most players most of the time."

Exactly. Why are we trying to reinvent the long proven criteria? Run the ball often and pass the ball well. Stuff the other side in their tracks. At some point we might realize that not many schools are emulating our stadium situation.