Salvaging the 2019 class

[CarolCityHigh]

Here is a 485 power clean, then full front squat with the weight and an Olympic style press in training in 1972.
Patera was one of the strongest Olympic style lifters ever he weight about 340 pounds at this time at 6-2. Ken Patera went to the Olympics in 1972 (last year the press was utilized in the 3 lifts). He started too high and bombed out with 507 (metric barbell). Just before the Olympics he did an official 505 press. Went into wrestling after the Olympics. Patera on a 45 degree incline could press over 530. Full squat with 800 for reps- no suit or anything like that was available back then

Taking the weight off the "racks" at shoulder level he Olympic pressed 535 in training.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

Here is one where even though the lifter is 350 pounds at about 6-2 his legs look slender yet are very powerful the ease in which he comes up with the weight. This world record clean and jerk (562.5 lbs) was in the 1976 Olympics (I was there in Montreal to watch him)
Today over 40 years later it is only been improved by about 20 pounds! Alexeeve made 565 lbs. in 1977 then an injury to his thigh eventually forced him to retire. Before the injury he was said to be capable of 575 or so.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

True. But as you know, it still has to be trained. If they’re not doing the “right” things, or in some cases - in the right sequence, then they’re not going to get an optimal result. Or worse, concentrating on less important things has led to detraining.

Who was the NFL DB who trained with some guru from since he was in high school who only believed in explosive lifts exclusively? I think he. Was from AZ…

Also,

Nick Chubb in High School



Top track guys averaging sub-170 lbs https://elitetrack.com/forums/topic/powerclean-numbers-of-the-pros/



Iowa’s S&C Coach makes $725,000/year. Most in the nation. https://www.landof10.com/iowa/iowa-...ruits-nfl-prospects-grit-science-intelligence

Doyle puts all players through a function movement analysis. He sets a battery of 10 tests to evaluate the player’s body. That’s from left side to right, front to back. He tries to identify any asymmetries or compensations. The staff looks at major areas: the shoulder girdle, the torso, posterior chain, the lower limbs, stability and mobility in the lower limbs.

“We’re trying to find out basically how this guy moves,” Doyle said. “How can we improve his ability to move. Also, we’re trying to find out what might break and let’s fix it before it happens. It channels them into their individualized program design, what we call corrective exercise.”

The staff tests the player’s body composition and focuses on what Doyle identifies as “performance indicators.” Those include straight-ahead running, directional changes and jumping ability. Those measurements help analyze the player’s explosiveness, agility and acceleration. They test those numbers over the player’s career.

For example, Gallery weighed 246 pounds and ran a 10-yard dash in 1.85 seconds early in his career, Doyle said. As the 2003 Outland Trophy winner, Gallery weighed 323 and ran the same drill in 1.67 seconds at the 2004 NFL Scouting Combine. He was the No. 2 pick in the draft by the Oakland Raiders that year.

“As he put weight on, he put on lean body mass, muscle weight,” Doyle said. “So it’s like taking a six-cylinder engine out of pickup truck and putting an eight-cylinder engine in. It’s heavier, but it went faster. We have to continue to monitor these prime indicators to make sure as we put weight on it’s functional weight.”

Doyle also uses force plate technology to gain more information in a player’s development. It can measure how a player leaves and returns to the ground, as well as identify body movement inconsistencies.

No argument on that!

Biggest technical fault in the clean, or power clean is bending the arms too soon by trying to pull with the arms rather than starting the weight off the floor with the legs/buttocks, then immediate transfer to the back then finally the use of the arms. Same for the snatch lift. the legs and back so much stronger than the arms, especially in the initial pull.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

No argument on that!

Biggest technical fault in the clean, or power clean is bending the arms too soon by trying to pull with the arms rather than starting the weight off the floor with the legs/buttocks, then immediate transfer to the back then finally the use of the arms. Same for the snatch lift. the legs and back so much stronger than the arms, especially in the initial pull.

This exercise which became famous by the late Tommy Kono 2 time Olympic champ in the 1950s is excellent to make the lifter have to start the sequence in the snatch or clean using the lower body first. Otherwise it become harder and harder to strike the stick with increasing weights as they arms are not strong enough to pull heavy weight that high.
It is a great exercise in itself ad it develops the same muscles as the power clean or snatch buy allows one to utilize more weight and adds variety to the exercise program. Naturally, when using it to improve the power clean the grip would be moved in to approximate that of the clean.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

LSU and Texas A&M T&F swear by the lifts you posted above.

Tetra they NSCA Journals I get as being a member have many college programs written up. All of these exercises are often included in most p[programs
The Soviets found out in the mid 1960s when the began the two decade dominance of Olympic weightlifting themnchanged the exercise performance often after 3 weeks or so. The Soviet dominance began to wain only because other countries like Bulgaria, etc. began to use it. Red China and Iran uses it now wwith great success.

What is meant by that is not only the weight, but repetitions, the height of the pulls, the angle of the bench for inclines, the feet placing in the squat, etc. Otherwise,they stated the organism (human body) soon developed a familiarity to the exercise and growth would begin to slow down..

Was the exercise eliminated not. It was introduce again at a later date when the body was becoming familiar to the new exercises the lifter had been placed on. This rotation was also used for their track athletes, wrestlers, etc.
It was named the conjugate method.

In this country Louis Simmons a power lifter that still dead lifts over 600 in his early 60s uses the conjugate method with great success in training world champion power lifters and other athletes starting around 1990.

 

[Paranos]

 

[CarolCityHigh]

Too many people try to reduce Soviet/Easten Bloc training to drugs when it was just light years ahead of everything else.

Drugs were being used by all world class lifters. The Soviets broke the stalemate as others were catching up to them as drugs were first used by them and others in the late 1950s. (Ciba pharmaceutical along with Winthrop pharmaceutical developed Dianabol in 1958- very hard to get hold of back then)--Soviets obtained it and reversed engineered it to make it.
With all top athletes in the world taking it by the mid-1960s they went after the training methods and radically changed/developed them.

 

[RedSquare]

True. But as you know, it still has to be trained. If they’re not doing the “right” things, or in some cases - in the right sequence, then they’re not going to get an optimal result. Or worse, concentrating on less important things has led to detraining.

Who was the NFL DB who trained with some guru from since he was in high school who only believed in explosive lifts exclusively? I think he. Was from AZ…

Also,

Nick Chubb in High School



Top track guys averaging sub-170 lbs https://elitetrack.com/forums/topic/powerclean-numbers-of-the-pros/



Iowa’s S&C Coach makes $725,000/year. Most in the nation. https://www.landof10.com/iowa/iowa-...ruits-nfl-prospects-grit-science-intelligence

Doyle puts all players through a function movement analysis. He sets a battery of 10 tests to evaluate the player’s body. That’s from left side to right, front to back. He tries to identify any asymmetries or compensations. The staff looks at major areas: the shoulder girdle, the torso, posterior chain, the lower limbs, stability and mobility in the lower limbs.

“We’re trying to find out basically how this guy moves,” Doyle said. “How can we improve his ability to move. Also, we’re trying to find out what might break and let’s fix it before it happens. It channels them into their individualized program design, what we call corrective exercise.”

The staff tests the player’s body composition and focuses on what Doyle identifies as “performance indicators.” Those include straight-ahead running, directional changes and jumping ability. Those measurements help analyze the player’s explosiveness, agility and acceleration. They test those numbers over the player’s career.

For example, Gallery weighed 246 pounds and ran a 10-yard dash in 1.85 seconds early in his career, Doyle said. As the 2003 Outland Trophy winner, Gallery weighed 323 and ran the same drill in 1.67 seconds at the 2004 NFL Scouting Combine. He was the No. 2 pick in the draft by the Oakland Raiders that year.

“As he put weight on, he put on lean body mass, muscle weight,” Doyle said. “So it’s like taking a six-cylinder engine out of pickup truck and putting an eight-cylinder engine in. It’s heavier, but it went faster. We have to continue to monitor these prime indicators to make sure as we put weight on it’s functional weight.”

Doyle also uses force plate technology to gain more information in a player’s development. It can measure how a player leaves and returns to the ground, as well as identify body movement inconsistencies.

My son is a collegiate athlete, and i know the guys very well on the team's training staff. they have a ton of experience with college football players, some NBA players, and world class athletes in skiing and ice hockey. What's interesting is the three guys have such diverse experience across different sports.

For my son's teams, they break down all S&C training into these distinct units, with all training modules are designed to fit specifically into

1. muscular strength
2. physical coordination and balance
3. cardio and muscular endurance
4. skeletal and muscular flexibility
5. speed and explosion

From these modules there, are as many as 10 or 12 various exercises or drills that incorporate or design to fit into each category, so altogether, you could have 50 or 60 tasks within the entire set from which to draw upon in crafting specific training strategies for each athlete.

To a MAN, each of the trainers says, if you had to throw out every module and only keep one, that one would be: Flexibility. If you could only keep one aspect of S&C, that's the one they say is most critical.

Just wanted to throw that out there as "food for thought."

 

[CarolCityHigh]

Drugs were being used by all world class lifters. The Soviets broke the stalemate as others were catching up to them as drugs were first used by them and others in the late 1950s. (Ciba pharmaceutical along with Winthrop pharmaceutical developed Dianabol in 1958- very hard to get hold of back then)--Soviets obtained it and reversed engineered it to make it.
With all top athletes in the world taking it by the mid-1960s they went after the training methods and radically changed/developed them.

Little side note Winthrop Pharmaceutical/Chemical that was in on Dianabol development also developed way back then Winstrol (steroid)....It became famous in the 1988 Olympics as that was what Ben Johnson of Canada the gold medal winner in the 100 meters was eventually disqualified for. As he was tested positive for it. Allegedly, someone leaked out what he was taking and they included it on he list of banned substances.

 

[jw410]

The fact that you said limit the number of transfers from the 2018 class tells me all that I need to know. We're screwed.

Beyond screwed...lol you can't limit ****.. He better lie and promise the world. Lmao man this is what happens. We laugh at others and now we are about to flop.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

My son is a collegiate athlete, and i know the guys very well on the team's training staff. they have a ton of experience with college football players, some NBA players, and world class athletes in skiing and ice hockey. What's interesting is the three guys have such diverse experience across different sports.

For my son's teams, they break down all S&C training into these distinct units, with all training modules are designed to fit specifically into

1. muscular strength
2. physical coordination and balance
3. cardio and muscular endurance
4. skeletal and muscular flexibility
5. speed and explosion

From these modules there, are as many as 10 or 12 various exercises or drills that incorporate or design to fit into each category, so altogether, you could have 50 or 60 tasks within the entire set from which to draw upon in crafting specific training strategies for each athlete.

To a MAN, each of the trainers says, if you had to throw out every module and only keep one, that one would be: Flexibility. If you could only keep one aspect of S&C, that's the one they say is most critical.

Just wanted to throw that out there as "food for thought."

Red China is dominating the lighter classes in Olympic lifting now they are moving up into the heavier classes with the conjugate method of dynamic style training...here are some of the lifts they utilize. There are so many more lifts to train on than just cleans and snatches to develop dynamic power and athleticism.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

Red China is dominating the lighter classes in Olympic lifting now they are moving up into the heavier classes with the conjugate method of dynamic style training...here are some of the lifts they utilize. There are so many more lifts to train on than just cleans and snatches to develop dynamic power and athleticism.

of note the exercise at 12:20 mark is an excellent prevention and remedial type exercise to prevent shoulder injuries.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

FYI, Here is the biography of one of the posters here @AlphaMarshan (he has a BS in Exercise Science, and did his Master's in ExPhys with a concentration in Strength and Conditioning at UM - “we have one of the best strength and conditioning education programs in the country: https://sites.education.miami.edu/e...-conditioningfitness-entrepreneurship-m-s-ed/“ )

I have never see it to debate it but I assume it is. No basis to doubt him.
I have 3 masters one in exercise physiology and my doctorate in heath psychology with concentrations in exercise and pharmacology. Plus I stated weight lifting in 1968 on a competitive level at age 15 finishing 2nd in the Quaker Oats National Teenage Championships the next year in the 148 pound class, and have continued through out my career. I have journal on all my exercise workouts from 1972 to now.

Having a great program and I believe it is and having strength sports coaches in the programs is one thing especially if they are not from that university. However, by what I have seen of the small clips of the football training program the people seem to be working hard and definitely appear motivated by the team comradery and the lifts you posted on the board. The problems in some of the positions can be most likely two things or a combination of those things 1) lack of proper player development 2) and /or athletes that are marginal for the position and skill set required to play it.

I enjoy talking with you.

 

[AK_Cane]

#GottaDoWhatsBestForTheFamSeason #MommaGetsWhatEverSheWantsSeason prepare yourselves. Really hope some of you aren't new to the recruiting game because this is a very bad year to start. We struggle even with good years haha

 

[CarolCityHigh]

Also Tetra the exercise sets and repetitions must be developed not only for the position but for each individual. Example Perry is not going to use the sane program, poundages and even reps as say Sacife and much bigger thicker boned guy- genetically made in structure to be stronger.

Perry will not be suited best by using the same program of Rosier, poundages, reps, etc. Rosier a much thicker and and genetically gifted person in the strength realm than Perry. (forgetting that the QB position is not so dependent on maximum strength).

In building a person up in muscular body weight and strength simultaneously there are body types that respond differently even at say the same position.

I am really simplifying on this as it is much more detailed.

Perry is what is sometimes called in weight lifting circles as having ACE-2 tendencies or thinner build/more endurance type build. Studies have show that these people tend to do best on repetitions between 12 to 15 (extended tension times). Heavy straight-set work in sets of 10 reps or less over time brings on staleness and a slow down of growth.

Rosier is more of an ACE-DD.....where straight sets with reps of 6-10 reps work best form maximum size and strength. Naturally on occasion one uses more weight and lower reps but not continually. Too much training like Perry should do from extended tension work slows down his growth in most cases

Regarding the explosive or dynamic movements the are best done at 2-5 reps to prevent degradation of form from fatigue and possibly bring on injury and being unable when tiring to get the most out of dynamic exercises.)

These schools like Notre Dame, Bama, Ohio State, etc. that have all those quality control people masquerading under that title but are strength coaches have 4, 5 or more that can get specific not only within the positions themselves on the team but the individuals with different body types and training requirements within those positions.

 

[CarolCityHigh]

FYI, Here is the biography of one of the posters here @AlphaMarshan (he has a BS in Exercise Science, and did his Master's in ExPhys with a concentration in Strength and Conditioning at UM - “we have one of the best strength and conditioning education programs in the country: https://sites.education.miami.edu/e...-conditioningfitness-entrepreneurship-m-s-ed/“ )

Lets converse on this if you wish on our personal; 247 accounts/email boxes so as not to tie up the board.

 

[AlphaMarshan]

Oh hello. Tetra @ me and now I'm here. What's going on?

 

[Ziggy]

What does our recruiting staff do in this situation? We have commits dropping like flies and we missed a golden opportunity with UF/FSU failures because of how crappy we are. 2019 seemed like a down class for the area to begin with and now do we have to reset our board and look for guys who are being under looked? December signing period is in a month and a half lol...

 

[GOCANES05]

Red China is dominating the lighter classes in Olympic lifting now they are moving up into the heavier classes with the conjugate method of dynamic style training...here are some of the lifts they utilize. There are so many more lifts to train on than just cleans and snatches to develop dynamic power and athleticism.

Absolutely outstanding , oh the memories what you showed is actual training heavy and light days even the auxiliaries that aren't shown to build up the smaller supporting muscles needed to light heavy poundage with build solid BULK with speed.
I remember those bar dips , I started with (1) 21/2 pound plate for (3) set of eight reps. people in the gym would say why so light ( I was building a solid base physically as well as my mental strength to know I could handle it) many months later close to 8 months I was doing (3) sets of eight with 220 pounds chained to my waist with chain ..... my body weight was 242 , 23" python pipes

Anyway, this is training no quick fix for power to explode an dominate off the line of scrimmage , with bar dip power like this I assure you I could handle my man in the pits 50 years ago , I wish these kids would understand the feeling KNOWING you CANNOT be out physical.....PERIOD.

I GET PUMPED REMEMBERING THE FEELING OF SHEER....POWER

 

[Cane Dynasty]

We will take the recruiting scraps, left-overs, and castoffs from other teams and try to make foie gras out of it.

The only problem is we have a taco truck chef in charge of the kitchen.