RPO O Line assignment? Football heads X's and O's question.

[OrangetieFatface]

If it's a run/pass option, is the offensive line creating running lanes or a pocket? Is the line expected to make the read before the play or right as it develops, is it just a set blocking assignment, or does the qb make the read at the line? Is it designed for the qb to throw downfield, or optimally is it just a triple option from the shotgun with the "pass option" being a screen pass?

Does any other team even run an RPO as their main system - what should it look like at its optimum?

Hopefully someone with more knowledge then me can clue me in. What the **** is a run/pass option?

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

The Oline has one job, fire off the ball and get movement. The Oline is thinking it's run all the way and one of the reason why were not very good at the RPO is we don't get much movement up front, but the Oline is run blocking all the way.

The theory behind it is that linemen can be up to 3 yards down the field when the ball is thrown and you won't have a penalty. When we throw the slant off an RPO normally we are reading the weakside backer. If he fills to stop the run the qb pulls the ball and hits the slant in the area we vacated. If they stay still then you hand the ball off. It's supposed to make the defnese think instead of reacting and play slow, but when you don't get any type of push what so ever then the RPO become ineffective because you can't really run out of it. There are different variation with a bubble screen, fade, Bang 8, whatever you want to call. The guy youre reading is just different.

I think Baylor is heavy RPO schemes if i am not mistaken. Hope this helps

 

[RiDLer80]

It's a called running back hand off in the huddle. The OL is run blocking the whole way. Kaaya reads the defense at the LOS. I'm assuming he's counting defenders in the box. If the numbers are favorable for the run (for example 6 blockers for 6 defenders in the box) he hands the ball off. If we're out-manned in the box he fakes the hand off.

Now this is where I'm unsure of his options. I think he has two pass options if he chooses to pull the ball and not hand it off: slant route or the bubble screen.

As far as teams that run the RPO, I was listening to Sirius XM and they mentioned UNC runs the RPO. A Gator fan in the WEZ also said they run it.

 

[OrangetieFatface]

The Oline has one job, fire off the ball and get movement. The Oline is thinking it's run all the way and one of the reason why were not very good at the RPO is we don't get much movement up front, but the Oline is run blocking all the way.

The theory behind it is that linemen can be up to 3 yards down the field when the ball is thrown and you won't have a penalty. When we throw the slant off an RPO normally we are reading the weakside backer. If he fills to stop the run the qb pulls the ball and hits the slant in the area we vacated. If they stay still then you hand the ball off. It's supposed to make the defnese think instead of reacting and play slow, but when you don't get any type of push what so ever then the RPO become ineffective because you can't really run out of it. There are different variation with a bubble screen, fade, Bang 8, whatever you want to call. The guy youre reading is just different.

I think Baylor is heavy RPO schemes if i am not mistaken. Hope this helps

A couple of follow ups:

I feel like based on your response, it is an effective way to neutralize defensive speed/athleticism?

A lot of the run/pass option's success is dependent on the Qb's instinctual read and a little bit of luck with the receivers route? Or are there so many routes that it's just a super fast read?

It just seems like it's really difficult to learn, but if the upside is Baylor, it's definitely learnable and largely based on having an experienced and athletic qb(Bryce petty and rg3)?

 

[theibisrules]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

 

[jakeman1]

RPO usually means the QB decides whether he runs the ball, or hands off to the RB. Unless I'm misunderstanding how the RPO should work at Miami, Kaaya hands off to the RB or throws it. He is not a real option to run himself. Kaaya should get rid of the ball almost immediately, one way or the other. Having a mobile QB would be nice, to give that third option of the QB running the ball, but I don't see that working well with Kaaya. Either way, up until the Pitt game, he was holding the ball too long. Richt said that Pitt's defense allowed him to get the ball out fast, since they played a lot of man coverage. Hopefully, they'll continue the trend, to take the stress off the OL.

 

[acento]

It's a called running back hand off in the huddle. The OL is run blocking the whole way. Kaaya reads the defense at the LOS. I'm assuming he's counting defenders in the box. If the numbers are favorable for the run (for example 6 blockers for 6 defenders in the box) he hands the ball off. If we're out-manned in the box he fakes the hand off.

Now this is where I'm unsure of his options. I think he has two pass options if he chooses to pull the ball and not hand it off: slant route or the bubble screen.

As far as teams that run the RPO, I was listening to Sirius XM and they mentioned UNC runs the RPO. A Gator fan in the WEZ also said they run it.

Thanks. This seems relatively simple for a competent defense to defend against. Showing certain pre-snap looks could easily influence the QB's decisions.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That poster is right. It's not a zone read or a read option. It's a RUN/PASS Option. It's based on the same principles of a zone read except the QB is not using his legs to beat you. He is using his arm to pull the ball and throw it quickly.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

RPO usually means the QB decides whether he runs the ball, or hands off to the RB. Unless I'm misunderstanding how the RPO should work at Miami, Kaaya hands off to the RB or throws it. He is not a real option to run himself. Kaaya should get rid of the ball almost immediately, one way or the other. Having a mobile QB would be nice, to give that third option of the QB running the ball, but I don't see that working well with Kaaya. Either way, up until the Pitt game, he was holding the ball too long. Richt said that Pitt's defense allowed him to get the ball out fast, since they played a lot of man coverage. Hopefully, they'll continue the trend, to take the stress off the OL.

Like the poster above you're missing understanding the "P" in RUN/PASS OPTION. He is no threat to run the ball. Everyone in America knows this, but what he is is usually really accurate with a quick trigger. Meaning he doesn't really wind up to throw the ball. It's supposed to take the stress off a bad oline because they have to do 1 thing....run block. They don't have to pass set because in theory the ball should be out before they're 3 yards down field.

The RPO is meant for a passing QB to give a defense a very similar look to a zone read or a read option. The defense should never be right.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

The Oline has one job, fire off the ball and get movement. The Oline is thinking it's run all the way and one of the reason why were not very good at the RPO is we don't get much movement up front, but the Oline is run blocking all the way.

The theory behind it is that linemen can be up to 3 yards down the field when the ball is thrown and you won't have a penalty. When we throw the slant off an RPO normally we are reading the weakside backer. If he fills to stop the run the qb pulls the ball and hits the slant in the area we vacated. If they stay still then you hand the ball off. It's supposed to make the defnese think instead of reacting and play slow, but when you don't get any type of push what so ever then the RPO become ineffective because you can't really run out of it. There are different variation with a bubble screen, fade, Bang 8, whatever you want to call. The guy youre reading is just different.

I think Baylor is heavy RPO schemes if i am not mistaken. Hope this helps

A couple of follow ups:

I feel like based on your response, it is an effective way to neutralize defensive speed/athleticism?

A lot of the run/pass option's success is dependent on the Qb's instinctual read and a little bit of luck with the receivers route? Or are there so many routes that it's just a super fast read?

It just seems like it's really difficult to learn, but if the upside is Baylor, it's definitely learnable and largely based on having an experienced and athletic qb(Bryce petty and rg3)?

It is very much designed to neutralize speed and athleticism on defense because you're making them think instead of reacting. It's also a great way to hide a deficient oline because you're asking them to do one thing. Fire off the ball and get movement. You're not asking them to pass set and let a defense pin their ears back so to speak. The defense shouldn't be correct and should be back on their heels when it's run correctly. We just don't get any movement up front so our "runs" in the RPO go for 1-2 yards and then we're behind the sticks.

I would say the RPO is dependent on a little push up front. If the defensive front 4 and Mike backer can stop the run then the RPO because null and void because the QBs read key is probably just standing still for 2 seconds making the QB hand off and then helps in run support. UNC did this very well. Thier Will backer wouldn't move off the snap for a couple seconds making Kaaya hand off then he would fill quickly. If the oline got push up front the back would've blown by the WILL who was standing flat footed. You can run any route combo you want, but the read, route, and throw has to occur before your Oline gets 3 yards past the LOS. Quick fades, slants, bubbles, quick outs, bang 8's (post route thrown on a line around 18 yards) are normally the routes you throw off an RPO because of the timing.

It's actually a pretty easy offense to learn. Kind of like a triple option, zone read, read option. The only person who deviates is the QB. He's the only one who has to read anything or make any kind of adjustment. The route is called in the huddle (the route will also dictate who the QB is reading as well), the oline is thinking run all the way. This should be very simple and it is supposed to protect a bad pass blocking oline and slow down a defense.

 

[theibisrules]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That poster is right. It's not a zone read or a read option. It's a RUN/PASS Option. It's based on the same principles of a zone read except the QB is not using his legs to beat you. He is using his arm to pull the ball and throw it quickly.

I read what your saying...Duke runs the same offense and their 6-5 QB does the same thing that kayak is supposed to do. kayak finally kept the ball and ran it this week. kayak better be careful though because he clearly is a fish out of water. He has no clue of how to slide.

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That poster is right. It's not a zone read or a read option. It's a RUN/PASS Option. It's based on the same principles of a zone read except the QB is not using his legs to beat you. He is using his arm to pull the ball and throw it quickly.

I read what your saying...Duke runs the same offense and their 6-5 QB does the same thing that kayak is supposed to do. kayak finally kept the ball and ran it this week. kayak better be careful though because he clearly is a fish out of water. He has no clue of how to slide.

That is very true. He is awkward at best toting the pill. However if he can, on a consistent basis, not take the sack and gain 2 yards we'll be alright. Duke does run a similar offense, but they do more zone reads and read options cause their QB is a big boy who can scoot

 

[JayCane20]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

 

[theibisrules]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

 

[Shogungts]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

Thanks for explaining and even more thanks for replying in a calm manner after the previous poster's unnecessary 2nd half of his post.

 

[JayCane20]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

Kaaya *can* keep it and it would be effective for him to do it maybe once or twice, like he did vs Pitt to keep the defense from going all out for the run stuff. However that's not the design of the play. No OC in their right mind is going to call a play for Brad to run the football. If he does, it's his decision.

As for the Duke QB, Cutcliffe runs a zone read/read option where it's designed. Totally different concepts.

We have a section of RPO and another section of read option in our playbook where I coach, we designed our RPO package based on a clinic taught by James Franklin when he was at Vanderbilt. RPO, when done right is going to get you 6-7 yards a play and allow you the potential to bust big plays if you've got the playmakers to do it. It's designed to benefit average teams that are mismatched in terms of talent. Hence the reason Vanderbilt utilized it and we're using it. Extremely simplistic numbers game, simple OL assignment, no post snap reads, etc.

 

[kryptonite]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

Kaaya *can* keep it and it would be effective for him to do it maybe once or twice, like he did vs Pitt to keep the defense from going all out for the run stuff. However that's not the design of the play. No OC in their right mind is going to call a play for Brad to run the football. If he does, it's his decision.

As for the Duke QB, Cutcliffe runs a zone read/read option where it's designed. Totally different concepts.

We have a section of RPO and another section of read option in our playbook where I coach, we designed our RPO package based on a clinic taught by James Franklin when he was at Vanderbilt. RPO, when done right is going to get you 6-7 yards a play and allow you the potential to bust big plays if you've got the playmakers to do it. It's designed to benefit average teams that are mismatched in terms of talent. Hence the reason Vanderbilt utilized it and we're using it. Extremely simplistic numbers game, simple OL assignment, no post snap reads, etc.

I may be wrong, but I thought Kayaa's run was not an RPO so much as he rolled out to throw and saw a mile of open field staring him in the face. I think that on an RPO run he'd need some speed and wiggle, which doesn't have. He does have enough speed to run if the receivers aren't open and everyone is playing deep.

 

[JayCane20]

Some dude on here tried to tell me RPO doesn't mean that Kayaks running the ball....WRONG! Good God people can sure be dumb!

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

Kaaya *can* keep it and it would be effective for him to do it maybe once or twice, like he did vs Pitt to keep the defense from going all out for the run stuff. However that's not the design of the play. No OC in their right mind is going to call a play for Brad to run the football. If he does, it's his decision.

As for the Duke QB, Cutcliffe runs a zone read/read option where it's designed. Totally different concepts.

We have a section of RPO and another section of read option in our playbook where I coach, we designed our RPO package based on a clinic taught by James Franklin when he was at Vanderbilt. RPO, when done right is going to get you 6-7 yards a play and allow you the potential to bust big plays if you've got the playmakers to do it. It's designed to benefit average teams that are mismatched in terms of talent. Hence the reason Vanderbilt utilized it and we're using it. Extremely simplistic numbers game, simple OL assignment, no post snap reads, etc.

I may be wrong, but I thought Kayaa's run was not an RPO so much as he rolled out to throw and saw a mile of open field staring him in the face. I think that on an RPO run he'd need some speed and wiggle, which doesn't have. He does have enough speed to run if the receivers aren't open and everyone is playing deep.

I remember him keeping 1 run on what I believe was an RPO and iirc it was the run inside the 10 when he got upended and landed on his dome lmao. There may not have been an RPO where he kept it at all I was pretty hammered at the game at that point but I believe that was the 1. He kept it 3 times plus the QB sneak. 2 were definitely just nobody open and him taking off.

 

[kryptonite]

That was me and no it doesn't mean Kaaya is running the ball. Our design of RPO is a RB handoff or quick pass. There's no option for Kaaya to keep it. You can incorporate that but then it's called a read option which everyone gets confused with RPO.

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

Kaaya *can* keep it and it would be effective for him to do it maybe once or twice, like he did vs Pitt to keep the defense from going all out for the run stuff. However that's not the design of the play. No OC in their right mind is going to call a play for Brad to run the football. If he does, it's his decision.

As for the Duke QB, Cutcliffe runs a zone read/read option where it's designed. Totally different concepts.

We have a section of RPO and another section of read option in our playbook where I coach, we designed our RPO package based on a clinic taught by James Franklin when he was at Vanderbilt. RPO, when done right is going to get you 6-7 yards a play and allow you the potential to bust big plays if you've got the playmakers to do it. It's designed to benefit average teams that are mismatched in terms of talent. Hence the reason Vanderbilt utilized it and we're using it. Extremely simplistic numbers game, simple OL assignment, no post snap reads, etc.

I may be wrong, but I thought Kayaa's run was not an RPO so much as he rolled out to throw and saw a mile of open field staring him in the face. I think that on an RPO run he'd need some speed and wiggle, which doesn't have. He does have enough speed to run if the receivers aren't open and everyone is playing deep.

I remember him keeping 1 run on what I believe was an RPO and iirc it was the run inside the 10 when he got upended and landed on his dome lmao. There may not have been an RPO where he kept it at all I was pretty hammered at the game at that point but I believe that was the 1. He kept it 3 times plus the QB sneak. 2 were definitely just nobody open and him taking off.

I'm all for the kid running now and then, but with the OL blocking we're getting these days and his speed, keeping on an RPO would be suicide.

 

[JayCane20]

so what I saw on Saturday didn't really happen? Oh ok I see. Neither was all the faking like he had the ball and running didn't exist either...oh ok cool.

Kaaya *can* keep it and it would be effective for him to do it maybe once or twice, like he did vs Pitt to keep the defense from going all out for the run stuff. However that's not the design of the play. No OC in their right mind is going to call a play for Brad to run the football. If he does, it's his decision.

As for the Duke QB, Cutcliffe runs a zone read/read option where it's designed. Totally different concepts.

We have a section of RPO and another section of read option in our playbook where I coach, we designed our RPO package based on a clinic taught by James Franklin when he was at Vanderbilt. RPO, when done right is going to get you 6-7 yards a play and allow you the potential to bust big plays if you've got the playmakers to do it. It's designed to benefit average teams that are mismatched in terms of talent. Hence the reason Vanderbilt utilized it and we're using it. Extremely simplistic numbers game, simple OL assignment, no post snap reads, etc.

I may be wrong, but I thought Kayaa's run was not an RPO so much as he rolled out to throw and saw a mile of open field staring him in the face. I think that on an RPO run he'd need some speed and wiggle, which doesn't have. He does have enough speed to run if the receivers aren't open and everyone is playing deep.

I remember him keeping 1 run on what I believe was an RPO and iirc it was the run inside the 10 when he got upended and landed on his dome lmao. There may not have been an RPO where he kept it at all I was pretty hammered at the game at that point but I believe that was the 1. He kept it 3 times plus the QB sneak. 2 were definitely just nobody open and him taking off.

I'm all for the kid running now and then, but with the OL blocking we're getting these days and his speed, keeping on an RPO would be suicide.

It's supposed to make it simple on the OL but it's not working. What helped vs Pitt is max protection with TE and RBs. They helped on the edge and the OL was able to pinch their protection to the middle and Kaaya had a pocket. That should be what we do from now on because it obviously worked against an extremely talented DL. Then just let Richards, Coley, and Njoku do their thing and get open.