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Real talk about 2012...

Gables said:
We're wasting no time whatsoever laying the foundations for excuses next year. The flies aren't even completely congregated on the heap of **** that is this season, and we're already trying to lower the limbo bar.

Folks that actually know football, see Botch Davis on the sideline. We hope he improves, and we'll see how he recruits going forward.

And LOL @ D'Onofrio only leaving for an NFL gig. Lou Feinberg was running that same line about Larry Coker a few years back. Sad, stupid ****.

Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

Most arent making excuses per se, they are just being realistic. I honestly believe we have another 6-7 win campaign again next year. We will actually start off slower next year and finish strong for once.
 
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Gables said:
We're wasting no time whatsoever laying the foundations for excuses next year. The flies aren't even completely congregated on the heap of **** that is this season, and we're already trying to lower the limbo bar.

Folks that actually know football, see Botch Davis on the sideline. We hope he improves, and we'll see how he recruits going forward.

And LOL @ D'Onofrio only leaving for an NFL gig. Lou Feinberg was running that same line about Larry Coker a few years back. Sad, stupid ****.

Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

Agree on everything, though it's a bit early to say Golden = Butch on the sidelines. There's a lot of similarities for sure, but his timeout usage and the decision to kick the FG last night give me hope that he's got a leg up on him in that respect. Expectations need to be realistic with the corch-infested bunch that Al's working with here...asking for double digit wins next year is a bit much with the holes and lack of depth we're going to have. But as long as one of the QBs step up (and I'm feeling good about Morris next year) the offense should be pretty potent. Back 7 is scary on D but the DL has a shot to be a pretty **** good unit. Another offseason of balls to the wall training/conditioning, flushing out more of the Shannon mentality, and getting more of their guys in and buying into their system will yield good things. 9 wins is very realistic IMO.
 
Gables said:
Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

Listen to this man. Stoops did, too. Both he and Tressel had five-loss seasons before that. Saban also went from 7-6 to 12-2.
 
Gables said:
We're wasting no time whatsoever laying the foundations for excuses next year. The flies aren't even completely congregated on the heap of **** that is this season, and we're already trying to lower the limbo bar.

Folks that actually know football, see Botch Davis on the sideline. We hope he improves, and we'll see how he recruits going forward.

And LOL @ D'Onofrio only leaving for an NFL gig. Lou Feinberg was running that same line about Larry Coker a few years back. Sad, stupid ****.

Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...
I hear you, and sort of agree, except it's natural to discuss next year at this point, and the picture don't look great. And Meyer inherited a talented roster from zook. The combination of what AG inherited, plus investigation/sanctions means we're just in a worse place, and it is what it is. Meyer would not be killing it with this team. Hopefully he can win the close games and take a step forward beyond what people think, but let's not kid ourselves about who we're going to battle with at this point.
 
sfcane2 said:
Not buying that. Where will we be weaker except LB? Oline will be much better with Kehoe gone. That will help the running game and give Morris more time.

Dline will be strong with Porter and Vernon playing a full year. Secondary will be vastly improved with the freshman.
Click to expand...

I see this team making a jump next year as they have a second season in the same systems.
 
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Gables said:
...Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

Uh, the difference being that Tressel and Meyer (and Stoops, who also won in Y2) took over rosters that were in excellent shape with several years of very good recruiting. Cooper, Zook, and Blake were all bad coaches, but all were very good recruiters who built very nice rosters for their successors. None of those guys had to build a roster from scratch like AG has too.
 
Randy Shannon can go 6-6, 7-5 here. If Golden is doing that in year 2 he wont have separated himself. He is supposed to be better and be a difference maker.
 
Leggett is going to start if he gets into school


Honestly I dont really get the improvement from Mcgee belief. He was awful vs Boston College. Just awful.
 
LexCane55 said:
Leggett is going to start if he gets into school


Honestly I dont really get the improvement from Mcgee belief. He was awful vs Boston College. Just awful.
Click to expand...

McGee has the hips of a white guy. He is brutal.
 
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Oh, and I've said it before...

Next year we need to win the ACC. If not...Golden and this team will yet again, disappoint.
 
Incorporating talented freshmen works when you have an experienced team with proven leaders. If you start a lot of Freshman you increase the chance of loss. Upper classmen can cover for Frosh mistakes but generally Frosh can't cover for other Frosh. With experience the number of mistakes decrease, the more freshmen you have the more mistakes there are and therefore the greater chance of play failure. The more play failures the bigger the chance of losing the game
 
Having slept on it and stepping back from yesterday's abortion, I am more towards gables here. This team should have been 9-3. That's what we are without suspensions and with coin-flip luck on close games. That should be the baseline to project from.

We may be thinner at some spots next year, but with another offseason under AG, I think we'll start to see more improvement also. And we actually looked solid at times this year. Hopefully with another spring and fall, we can look solid more of the time next year.

Recruiting is a wild card. But all in all, no reason this team can't go 8-4 or 9-3 next year. No point in making predictions before nsd, but that's my revised assessment.
 
CiminoUM5 said:
DMoney said:
My best take at the lineup:

LT: Henderson/Bunche/Flowers
LG: Washington/Wheeler/Lewis
C: Linder/McDermott
RG: Feliciano/Linder
RT: Bunche/Johnson/Gadbois

TE: Walford/Cleveland
TE: Dye/White

WR: Streeter/Scott
WR: Hurns/Dorsett/the best freshman

QB: Morris/Williams/Dewey/Crow
FB: Hagens/Calhoun
TB: James/Clements/Duke

Offensive recruiting has been way ahead of the defense and it shows. The Class of 2010 is an example of a strong offensive recruiting class and a horrid defensive class. Overall, guys like Streeter, Walford, Dorsett, Hagens and the offensive line "look" how UM players should look at those positions. Morris and Williams do, too.

The defensive two deep is where we'll see Golden's recruiting. Some of his young signees need to step up and provide a spark.

DE: Chickillo/Grimble
DT: Porter/Smith
DT: Forston/Ojomo/Robinson
DE: Vernon/Pierre/Green

Chickillo and Vernon are a promising DE duo and will be relied on for heavy snaps. DT looks a lot better than it did a few months ago with Forston coming back and Ojomo developing as a nickel rusher. Don't see anyway how the defensive line is not improved.

SLB: Buchanan/Cain
MLB: Gaines/Paul
WLB: Perryman/Buchanan

FS: Telemaque/Crawford
SS: Armstrong/Highsmith

Linebacker has some talented players up front and a slew of Golden guys in development. Spence's next-level ability will be missed but Perryman looks ready to take that role. Safety play should be status quo, which is not good. Crawford or somebody else need to inject life into this group.

CB: McGee/Rodgers/Freshmen
CB: Finnie/Payne/Freshmen

Another bad year at corner. The top two have a chance. McGee showed improvement late in the year and Finnie is a fast, hard-nosed player. The key will be developing the freshmen, who are fairly polished corners coming in.

The difference between 6-6 and 9-3 was small this year. With another year in the system and the same or better level of talent, I expect (and I'm sure Golden expects) those wins to swing the other way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this breakdown. Offense looks very good on paper. I think Morris wins the job and is an improvement over Jac. Very good trio of receivers and great depth and upside at TE. Starting OL on paper should be great, but I'll feel a lot better about that happening if Kehole's gone.

Like I said earlier, a great DL can mask deficiencies in the secondary. Next year's DL has the potential to be a **** good one. Great set of ends and I really liked what I saw of Porter in limited action this season. Other starting DT spot is a bit of a question mark but we actually have good depth there for a change. I think Perryman does a nice job replacing Spence, and I have a hard time believing that getting Futch out of the starting 3 isn't a good thing. Whole defensive backfield is trouble. Hopefully VT slims down a bit and regains the form we saw from him earlier in his career and Crawford steps up (Ray Ray is terrible and I don't see him getting any better). Corners look ugly, period. Finnie might be a good one...past him who knows what we've got.

In the end, neither the talent nor depth will be worse next year than it was this year. With another offseason to focus on conditioning, work ethic, and getting these guys to buy into his system, I see no reason why we can't win a few more games next season. 9 wins seems realistic.
Click to expand...


Do you really see our DL being "**** good" by Miami standards? Or have our standards just dropped because we're just happy to have bodies and we're used to the last few years? Think deep and be honest. For me, I see what can be a solid, serviceable group at best if they stay healthy. I certainly don't see a single dominant player, especially at DT.

"**** good" is a lot better than what I see in front if me, and I certainly don't see "a great DL that can mask deficiencies in a secondary." "**** good" means just short of great, and these guys are a LONG way from sniffing Maryland, Brown, Mederis, Stubbs, etc. I would guess Chick is going to be the best player on the DL next year, and he will be a true sophomore who will still be developing to an extent. I think he dominates his last two years, but next year is a little early to ask him to be the bell cow on a "**** good" Miami line.
 
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Gables said:
We're wasting no time whatsoever laying the foundations for excuses next year. The flies aren't even completely congregated on the heap of **** that is this season, and we're already trying to lower the limbo bar.

Folks that actually know football, see Botch Davis on the sideline. We hope he improves, and we'll see how he recruits going forward.

And LOL @ D'Onofrio only leaving for an NFL gig. Lou Feinberg was running that same line about Larry Coker a few years back. Sad, stupid ****.

Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

No one is making excuses. I am objectively evaluating what I see in front of me. We had an incredibly thin team this year and we are actually losing a lot off it. Sadly for us, the "next wave" is the 2009 and 2010 POS classes that helped get RS fired. This is a re-build any way I try to look at it. It reminds me of what Butch inherited to some extent, though the reductions aren't there (yet- please god no). I am looking for a big jump in 2013 when the FIRST class of Golden recruits that he put together in 6 weeks or so last year are true juniors and redshirt sophomores, and this coming class are true sophomores and redshirt freshmen. ****, THAT's young.

One thing about running off dead weight. You replace them with young uns. As I said earlier, next year FIFTY PERCENT of our SCHOLARSHIP PLAYERS will be freshmen next year. 40+. All freshman. And the upper class men are going to be made up of thin classes of RS types.

Again, 50% freshmen!!
 
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bomb said:
CiminoUM5 said:
DMoney said:
My best take at the lineup:

LT: Henderson/Bunche/Flowers
LG: Washington/Wheeler/Lewis
C: Linder/McDermott
RG: Feliciano/Linder
RT: Bunche/Johnson/Gadbois

TE: Walford/Cleveland
TE: Dye/White

WR: Streeter/Scott
WR: Hurns/Dorsett/the best freshman

QB: Morris/Williams/Dewey/Crow
FB: Hagens/Calhoun
TB: James/Clements/Duke

Offensive recruiting has been way ahead of the defense and it shows. The Class of 2010 is an example of a strong offensive recruiting class and a horrid defensive class. Overall, guys like Streeter, Walford, Dorsett, Hagens and the offensive line "look" how UM players should look at those positions. Morris and Williams do, too.

The defensive two deep is where we'll see Golden's recruiting. Some of his young signees need to step up and provide a spark.

DE: Chickillo/Grimble
DT: Porter/Smith
DT: Forston/Ojomo/Robinson
DE: Vernon/Pierre/Green

Chickillo and Vernon are a promising DE duo and will be relied on for heavy snaps. DT looks a lot better than it did a few months ago with Forston coming back and Ojomo developing as a nickel rusher. Don't see anyway how the defensive line is not improved.

SLB: Buchanan/Cain
MLB: Gaines/Paul
WLB: Perryman/Buchanan

FS: Telemaque/Crawford
SS: Armstrong/Highsmith

Linebacker has some talented players up front and a slew of Golden guys in development. Spence's next-level ability will be missed but Perryman looks ready to take that role. Safety play should be status quo, which is not good. Crawford or somebody else need to inject life into this group.

CB: McGee/Rodgers/Freshmen
CB: Finnie/Payne/Freshmen

Another bad year at corner. The top two have a chance. McGee showed improvement late in the year and Finnie is a fast, hard-nosed player. The key will be developing the freshmen, who are fairly polished corners coming in.

The difference between 6-6 and 9-3 was small this year. With another year in the system and the same or better level of talent, I expect (and I'm sure Golden expects) those wins to swing the other way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this breakdown. Offense looks very good on paper. I think Morris wins the job and is an improvement over Jac. Very good trio of receivers and great depth and upside at TE. Starting OL on paper should be great, but I'll feel a lot better about that happening if Kehole's gone.

Like I said earlier, a great DL can mask deficiencies in the secondary. Next year's DL has the potential to be a **** good one. Great set of ends and I really liked what I saw of Porter in limited action this season. Other starting DT spot is a bit of a question mark but we actually have good depth there for a change. I think Perryman does a nice job replacing Spence, and I have a hard time believing that getting Futch out of the starting 3 isn't a good thing. Whole defensive backfield is trouble. Hopefully VT slims down a bit and regains the form we saw from him earlier in his career and Crawford steps up (Ray Ray is terrible and I don't see him getting any better). Corners look ugly, period. Finnie might be a good one...past him who knows what we've got.

In the end, neither the talent nor depth will be worse next year than it was this year. With another offseason to focus on conditioning, work ethic, and getting these guys to buy into his system, I see no reason why we can't win a few more games next season. 9 wins seems realistic.
Click to expand...


Do you really see our DL being "**** good" by Miami standards? Or have our standards just dropped because we're just happy to have bodies and we're used to the last few years? Think deep and be honest. For me, I see what can be a solid, serviceable group at best if they stay healthy. I certainly don't see a single dominant player, especially at DT.

"**** good" is a lot better than what I see in front if me, and I certainly don't see "a great DL that can mask deficiencies in a secondary." "**** good" means just short of great, and these guys are a LONG way from sniffing Maryland, Brown, Mederis, Stubbs, etc. I would guess Chick is going to be the best player on the DL next year, and he will be a true sophomore who will still be developing to an extent. I think he dominates his last two years, but next year is a little early to ask him to be the bell cow on a "**** good" Miami line.
Click to expand...

Come on, no one is comparing these guys to NFL all pros. And no one is contending we will compete for an mnc. This thread is about improvement and record, and we compete in the incredibly mediocre ACC, not the sec. That's the context in which I hear comments on our dl or other units.
 
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Gables said:
We're wasting no time whatsoever laying the foundations for excuses next year. The flies aren't even completely congregated on the heap of **** that is this season, and we're already trying to lower the limbo bar.

Folks that actually know football, see Botch Davis on the sideline. We hope he improves, and we'll see how he recruits going forward.

And LOL @ D'Onofrio only leaving for an NFL gig. Lou Feinberg was running that same line about Larry Coker a few years back. Sad, stupid ****.

Golden needs a decade, but Tressell and Meyer hoisted the glass in their second year? Child please.
Click to expand...

Yep. Golden needs to ax the dead weight and win 10+, or he's a ShamCok as well.
 
Ethnicsands said:
bomb said:
CiminoUM5 said:
DMoney said:
My best take at the lineup:

LT: Henderson/Bunche/Flowers
LG: Washington/Wheeler/Lewis
C: Linder/McDermott
RG: Feliciano/Linder
RT: Bunche/Johnson/Gadbois

TE: Walford/Cleveland
TE: Dye/White

WR: Streeter/Scott
WR: Hurns/Dorsett/the best freshman

QB: Morris/Williams/Dewey/Crow
FB: Hagens/Calhoun
TB: James/Clements/Duke

Offensive recruiting has been way ahead of the defense and it shows. The Class of 2010 is an example of a strong offensive recruiting class and a horrid defensive class. Overall, guys like Streeter, Walford, Dorsett, Hagens and the offensive line "look" how UM players should look at those positions. Morris and Williams do, too.

The defensive two deep is where we'll see Golden's recruiting. Some of his young signees need to step up and provide a spark.

DE: Chickillo/Grimble
DT: Porter/Smith
DT: Forston/Ojomo/Robinson
DE: Vernon/Pierre/Green

Chickillo and Vernon are a promising DE duo and will be relied on for heavy snaps. DT looks a lot better than it did a few months ago with Forston coming back and Ojomo developing as a nickel rusher. Don't see anyway how the defensive line is not improved.

SLB: Buchanan/Cain
MLB: Gaines/Paul
WLB: Perryman/Buchanan

FS: Telemaque/Crawford
SS: Armstrong/Highsmith

Linebacker has some talented players up front and a slew of Golden guys in development. Spence's next-level ability will be missed but Perryman looks ready to take that role. Safety play should be status quo, which is not good. Crawford or somebody else need to inject life into this group.

CB: McGee/Rodgers/Freshmen
CB: Finnie/Payne/Freshmen

Another bad year at corner. The top two have a chance. McGee showed improvement late in the year and Finnie is a fast, hard-nosed player. The key will be developing the freshmen, who are fairly polished corners coming in.

The difference between 6-6 and 9-3 was small this year. With another year in the system and the same or better level of talent, I expect (and I'm sure Golden expects) those wins to swing the other way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this breakdown. Offense looks very good on paper. I think Morris wins the job and is an improvement over Jac. Very good trio of receivers and great depth and upside at TE. Starting OL on paper should be great, but I'll feel a lot better about that happening if Kehole's gone.

Like I said earlier, a great DL can mask deficiencies in the secondary. Next year's DL has the potential to be a **** good one. Great set of ends and I really liked what I saw of Porter in limited action this season. Other starting DT spot is a bit of a question mark but we actually have good depth there for a change. I think Perryman does a nice job replacing Spence, and I have a hard time believing that getting Futch out of the starting 3 isn't a good thing. Whole defensive backfield is trouble. Hopefully VT slims down a bit and regains the form we saw from him earlier in his career and Crawford steps up (Ray Ray is terrible and I don't see him getting any better). Corners look ugly, period. Finnie might be a good one...past him who knows what we've got.

In the end, neither the talent nor depth will be worse next year than it was this year. With another offseason to focus on conditioning, work ethic, and getting these guys to buy into his system, I see no reason why we can't win a few more games next season. 9 wins seems realistic.
Click to expand...


Do you really see our DL being "**** good" by Miami standards? Or have our standards just dropped because we're just happy to have bodies and we're used to the last few years? Think deep and be honest. For me, I see what can be a solid, serviceable group at best if they stay healthy. I certainly don't see a single dominant player, especially at DT.

"**** good" is a lot better than what I see in front if me, and I certainly don't see "a great DL that can mask deficiencies in a secondary." "**** good" means just short of great, and these guys are a LONG way from sniffing Maryland, Brown, Mederis, Stubbs, etc. I would guess Chick is going to be the best player on the DL next year, and he will be a true sophomore who will still be developing to an extent. I think he dominates his last two years, but next year is a little early to ask him to be the bell cow on a "**** good" Miami line.
Click to expand...

Come on, no one is comparing these guys to NFL all pros. And no one is contending we will compete for an mnc. This thread is about improvement and record, and we compete in the incredibly mediocre ACC, not the sec. That's the context in which I hear comments on our dl or other units.
Click to expand...

He said he saw a "**** good" DL that could "mask the deficiencies of a bad secondary."

I am just pointing out that I don't see our DL being as good as he proposes. I used those "great" (my word) players to illustrate the gap between what we have and a great line, to show that I don't think our line will be anywhere near "**** good" by Miami standards.

And BTW, Mederis never played in the NFL due to injury and I don't think Stubbs was an All Pro (50% of my examples) as he bounced around. We don't need "all time" guys. Give me a Kevin Patrick, William Joseph and the like to compliment one bell cow. We're not there.

We don't need an NFL All pro line. But 2nd team ACC would be a nice start. We're not ever there.
 
bomb said:
CiminoUM5 said:
DMoney said:
My best take at the lineup:

LT: Henderson/Bunche/Flowers
LG: Washington/Wheeler/Lewis
C: Linder/McDermott
RG: Feliciano/Linder
RT: Bunche/Johnson/Gadbois

TE: Walford/Cleveland
TE: Dye/White

WR: Streeter/Scott
WR: Hurns/Dorsett/the best freshman

QB: Morris/Williams/Dewey/Crow
FB: Hagens/Calhoun
TB: James/Clements/Duke

Offensive recruiting has been way ahead of the defense and it shows. The Class of 2010 is an example of a strong offensive recruiting class and a horrid defensive class. Overall, guys like Streeter, Walford, Dorsett, Hagens and the offensive line "look" how UM players should look at those positions. Morris and Williams do, too.

The defensive two deep is where we'll see Golden's recruiting. Some of his young signees need to step up and provide a spark.

DE: Chickillo/Grimble
DT: Porter/Smith
DT: Forston/Ojomo/Robinson
DE: Vernon/Pierre/Green

Chickillo and Vernon are a promising DE duo and will be relied on for heavy snaps. DT looks a lot better than it did a few months ago with Forston coming back and Ojomo developing as a nickel rusher. Don't see anyway how the defensive line is not improved.

SLB: Buchanan/Cain
MLB: Gaines/Paul
WLB: Perryman/Buchanan

FS: Telemaque/Crawford
SS: Armstrong/Highsmith

Linebacker has some talented players up front and a slew of Golden guys in development. Spence's next-level ability will be missed but Perryman looks ready to take that role. Safety play should be status quo, which is not good. Crawford or somebody else need to inject life into this group.

CB: McGee/Rodgers/Freshmen
CB: Finnie/Payne/Freshmen

Another bad year at corner. The top two have a chance. McGee showed improvement late in the year and Finnie is a fast, hard-nosed player. The key will be developing the freshmen, who are fairly polished corners coming in.

The difference between 6-6 and 9-3 was small this year. With another year in the system and the same or better level of talent, I expect (and I'm sure Golden expects) those wins to swing the other way.
Click to expand...

Totally agree with this breakdown. Offense looks very good on paper. I think Morris wins the job and is an improvement over Jac. Very good trio of receivers and great depth and upside at TE. Starting OL on paper should be great, but I'll feel a lot better about that happening if Kehole's gone.

Like I said earlier, a great DL can mask deficiencies in the secondary. Next year's DL has the potential to be a **** good one. Great set of ends and I really liked what I saw of Porter in limited action this season. Other starting DT spot is a bit of a question mark but we actually have good depth there for a change. I think Perryman does a nice job replacing Spence, and I have a hard time believing that getting Futch out of the starting 3 isn't a good thing. Whole defensive backfield is trouble. Hopefully VT slims down a bit and regains the form we saw from him earlier in his career and Crawford steps up (Ray Ray is terrible and I don't see him getting any better). Corners look ugly, period. Finnie might be a good one...past him who knows what we've got.

In the end, neither the talent nor depth will be worse next year than it was this year. With another offseason to focus on conditioning, work ethic, and getting these guys to buy into his system, I see no reason why we can't win a few more games next season. 9 wins seems realistic.
Click to expand...


Do you really see our DL being "**** good" by Miami standards? Or have our standards just dropped because we're just happy to have bodies and we're used to the last few years? Think deep and be honest. For me, I see what can be a solid, serviceable group at best if they stay healthy. I certainly don't see a single dominant player, especially at DT.

"**** good" is a lot better than what I see in front if me, and I certainly don't see "a great DL that can mask deficiencies in a secondary." "**** good" means just short of great, and these guys are a LONG way from sniffing Maryland, Brown, Mederis, Stubbs, etc. I would guess Chick is going to be the best player on the DL next year, and he will be a true sophomore who will still be developing to an extent. I think he dominates his last two years, but next year is a little early to ask him to be the bell cow on a "**** good" Miami line.
Click to expand...

You don't need a line full of Marylands, Wilforks, etc. to have a **** good line. Right now, no, there is not a single dominant player. That's why I said "potential" to have a **** good DL. Vernon is the closest to being a stud out of the bunch and if he decides to stay, bust his *** in the offseason, and actually get to play the entire year, I think you're looking at guy with high round potential in next year's draft. An offseason in the weight room should do Chick a lot of good and with his motor and drive, I have no doubt he'll continue to improve next year. DT unfortunately is the bigger question mark, but I liked what I saw from Porter in limited action this year. If he can stay healthy (a big if, granted), I see him having a good 2011. The other DT spot is up for grabs, obviously. I'm not expecting a thing out of Forston at this point, so hopefully one of the young guys can step in. I did like what I saw from Smith in bursts...he's a guy that obviously can benefit big time from an offseason of conditioning.
 
bomb said:
He said he saw a "**** good" DL that could "mask the deficiencies of a bad secondary."

I am just pointing out that I don't see our DL being as good as he proposes. I used those "great" (my word) players to illustrate the gap between what we have and a great line, to show that I don't think our line will be anywhere near "**** good" by Miami standards.

And BTW, Mederis never played in the NFL due to injury and I don't think Stubbs was an All Pro (50% of my examples) as he bounced around. We don't need "all time" guys. Give me a Kevin Patrick, William Joseph and the like to compliment one bell cow. We're not there.

We don't need an NFL All pro line. But 2nd team ACC would be a nice start. We're not ever there.
Click to expand...

No, you're twisting words around, big shocker. I said I saw the POTENTIAL for a **** good DL. Again, they don't need to be an all pro line. Ours was downright bad at the beginning of this year and inconsistent in the 2nd half, and yet the D still managed to have some solid games and field a respectable red zone defense. With an offense that IMO will be at the very least just as good, if not better than this year's, an improved DL, better conditioning and an overall improvement in attitude/culture, there's no reason we can't turn a few of those close losses this year into wins.
 
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