Real talk about 2012...

[DMoney]

Not buying it.

We return seven starters on offense. All four replacements (Morris, Seantrel, James/Clements and Bunche) have experience.

We return seven starters on defense. Three of the replacements (RayRay, Buchanan and Forston) have extensive starting experience. So that's basically ten returning starters.

The raw numbers of freshmen mean nothing. Florida was the youngest team in the NCAA when they won the title in 2006. Played more freshman than anybody, many in key roles. The important thing is signing good players.

Go position by position. At quarterback, you have two guys with starting experience who IMO are more talented than Jacory. This is their second year in Fisch's system. The offensive line returns three starters and two NFL-type behemoths with experience at tackle. Walford and Hagans are front-end talents at their respective positions. The top two receivers return, including a potential first rounder, and Dorsett should give us a more reliable version of Benjamin. Miller's playmaking will be missed but James/Clements/Duke are three good all-around football players.

The defensive line returns just about everybody and should be improved with the continued development of Porter and Ojomo. Linebackers lose Spence, but bring back four guys (Perrman, Gaines, Cain and Buchanan) who have played significant snaps. Again, one more year in the system. We lose one good player in the secondary and return everybody else. That will continue to be a trouble spot.

No reason why we can't be a better version of this year's team. And a better version of this year's team wins a lot of those close games.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

Ive given Golden a Mulligan for this year and defended him all season. I expect improvement next year. Bar none. The OL situation needs to get unf*cked YESTERDAY, and that should start with a new OL coach.... getting some depth back on the DL will also help tremendously. I expect Vernon to be MUCH better next season, Porter, Smith and Forston should give us a solid DT foundation and L.Robinson, Grimble and Pierre should provide some good depth. Chick will be bigger and more experienced.... Perryman should be solid next year... and I expect some improvement from guys like Gaines, and Buchanan provides some experience coming back. The real question will come at DB.... we desperately need to bring some talent in there.

If we can get decent production out of Williams or Morris, I expect this team to be no worse than 8-4 next year. Hurns, Streeter, Dorsett, Clements, and Walford all have some decent experience and should be solid contributors next year. Mo Hagens is back, as is most of the line.

 

[CaniacMike21]

I actually expect to see improvement next year.

This all the way.

 

[CANE4LIFE]

I think a lot of people may be sleeping on Williams. Kid got a lot of experience at Memphis.... he's not some green Frosh whose never been in a game... and it will be his second year in this system..... so he should be MUCH more plugged in on what is expected. Sans for Morris.

 

[Ethnicsands]

I think we'll be more talented next year, barring injuries. Depth will be an issue but we'll have a lot of talented young guys vying for time.

OL shouldn't be worse, and should be better in fact. WR should be solid with streeter, Hurns and dorsett. TE should be improved as we have several talented youngsters there. RB depends on Miller in part, but duke johnson may be he best rb we've had since gore. QB- should be no worse as Morris has a year to progress and Williams is supposedly okay also.

On D, we'll miss Spence but buchanon comes back and perryman's stepped up amd we'll have more new kids at LB. The unit should hopefully be better. DT will be better if only because of health and most guys back. DE probably improves with Chick in his second year. Safeties are back, so can't be worse. CB is the Q but is wasn't good his year. A LOT rides on whether the young DBs we bring in can see the field. If so, it will help a lot. If not, our options shrink and we may see a replay of this year's defensive schemes.

ST hopefully will be improved again, with more athletic youngsters to prove they deserve time.

We also lost 5 close games this year. I think we should look better and see a couple games improvement next year. But until we can compete physically on the LOS with the tougher teams we face, we aren't going to be back. That will take a seasonor two past next year, unfortunately.

1- Our best safety this year is graduating, JoJo. So I wouldn't say the "safeties are back."

2- Yes, our CB play was horrific, but 2 of our 3 best (****, we basically only had 3 CB's this year, and I use the term CB generously) are gone. I know we are all psyched to see marginal players move on, but its not about whose leaving, its about whose lining up next year. Again, give me your TWO DEEP at CB. And you should probably list 5 or 6 CB's for nickel.

3- And this is 10x as important as the first two items... I agree with most of the parts of your post above that are accurate. The trenches, (again, broken record, two deep scare me. But lets get down and dirty and again, talk TWO DEEP. People get hurt. People get suspended. People don't pan out. People need breathers. Re-do your post, and except this time instead of just top line starters, give me that 2-DEEP! Its scary as ****.

DT will be porter, forston (ugh), smith and probably grumble, plus whatever juco we can find. Not worse.

DB: true on Nicolas, forgot we're losing him. But a year ago his career at um was pretty undistinguished, as well. Craw ford's gotten praise on the scout team. Hopefully a light goes on for our hyped safeties who haven't done much on the field (vt and rra). At CB, I agree it's scary, but This time last year, Williams was t even at um and chambers was a rb. We need finnie and McGee to step up, but given how bad we were this year at cb I really don't expect us to be worse. We can switch someone else, find another transfer, a juco, hopefully some freshmen who can play. I expect AG will scour the earth medieval style for the next two months looking for CBs.

If you're saying that based on what you know now our two deep looks scary at cb, I say yup. True. But that was true last year as well.

We'll be younger next year, but on a unit basis I do t think we'll be worse. LB worries me without spnce but with a mix of maturation and new guys I think we'll be no worse -- again, because we weren't particularly good but for spence there anyhow. And perryman looks like the real deal.

If your point is youth even when talented translates to game-blowing mistakes, I can't disagree, but given our talent and this years record I do not see us taking a step backwards next year. IMO 7-5. Maybe 8-4 if things go well.

 

[PDXCane]

i want to believe that this team will be better next year, but i'm not optimistic. First off, some of you guys are taking for granted that Kehoe is gone and therefore the OL can't get worse. If he doesn't get fired, i expect zero improvement from the OL, and perhaps even some regression. Spence is leaving, and we still don't know if we can fill the MLB spot. Perryman did well for a freshman, but most of his quality reps have been as a will linebacker. Buchanan does nothing to impress me, and virtually no one on this team can seem to pressure the QB. If the DL doesn't significantly and monumentally improve, the inexperienced LBs are going to get killed. Depending on freshman CBs is a fool's game. It's one thing if the front seven is dominant, but i doubt that will be the case. Our "returning safeties" have quite often been trash this season. It would be great if they could finally perform up to expectations, but I'm not prepared to bet on that.

 

[bathtubgin]

It all comes down to the lines. If the OL and DL look anything
like they did this year, and if kehoe is back I expect the OL will,
we'll be worse, IMO.

 

[bomb]

I'll wait till signing day for the two deep, but I don't see anyone outside of possibly Miller leaving early (although he really shouldn't leave early). If you would have asked me mid-season I would have said he's gone but his tentative nature and the way he seemingly wore down in a 12 game college season, just don't think he's ready. Either way, simple addition by subtraction while actually bringing back most of the most productive players on the team (outside of Spence) tells me this team should be better. Add what should overall be a consistant staff going into next year and another year of strength training (by far the biggest weakness on the current team) and I see no reason why this team won't be better. Maybe even considerably better.

LOL. There we go again. There is no "addition by subtraction" in football. Its about who comes in. There was no one better on the roster than the guys we played this year. That's why they played. If you have an answer about why player B will be better than player A who's leaving, great, but you can't just say we will be better without getting into exactly who is going to be on the field, and who is backing him up.

We all want all the CB's to GTFO, but who is going to play next year? Right now our starting 3 would be McGee, Kayne, and Finnie, with god knows what backing them up. How do you feel about that lineup? Especially without the QB of the defensive backfield, JoJo gone. I am scared to death about our secondary.

 

[bomb]

Virginia Tech figures out a way to be in it in this **** conference year in and year out. Younger or old it 9-10 wins.

I dont expect us to be a national power next year but he should win 9 games if we are holding him to a higher standard than Randy Shannon or Coker who set the bar pretty low.

As far as I can remember, VT never had to fire their coach for blowing two straight years of recruiting and leaving them with the need to blow out their roster and sign 35 kids. That's why the aforementioned Coker and Shannon were fired, and why Gobble basically has tenure.

This is a terrible conference. If he is better than what we have had, he will be able to bridge that gap with coaching and put together a nice year in his 2nd year, his system and schemes already entrenched, development of current players on the roster and a full recruiting class under his belt.

I love the attitude, but you can't snap your fingers and wish it. 50% freshmen. No depth. No upperclass leadership.

I understand the depth isnt great right now but you have to develop whats on your roster as well. You cant just wait for 2-3 recruiting classes to see improvement. Again, I dont expect us to be relevant nationally until about 2014 but next year should be significantly improved.

All the upperclassmen will have had 2 off seasons with him going into next year as well as some of the freshman from this year.

I want to see guy like Clements and Mike James take another step, Hurns and Dorsett to break out, Walford to take a step, Porter, Chick and Perryman to break out, finnie and the young dbs get better and not have to rely on chalking them up to recruiting misses by Shannon. VT and Ray Ray get killed by cane fans a lot and rightfully so, but they are also players with a lot of ability. I want to see those types of players better. Just develop and improve whats there and it should at least have you as a serious contender for the coastal.

If they can just clean up the bone headed mistakes and have the dbs and linebackers play their assignments consistently, then the team will improve dramatically on that alone. I dont think the task of getting them to being a serious contender in the coastal race and winning 9 games is that monumental. In it for a national title? 3 years from today at minimum and a long haul which is ifne.

You make good points and I think some of that is possible. But some of these guys are also just who they are. Recruiting mistakes. Again, you can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad... but you can sure try to make it at least somewhat edible.

But again, broken record time.. DEPTH. Give me positions and names. Its a ****show. God forbid anyone on this team gets injured.. anyone!!!

 

[bomb]

Not buying it.

We return seven starters on offense. All four replacements (Morris, Seantrel, James/Clements and Bunche) have experience.

We return seven starters on defense. Three of the replacements (RayRay, Buchanan and Forston) have extensive starting experience. So that's basically ten returning starters.

The raw numbers of freshmen mean nothing. Florida was the youngest team in the NCAA when they won the title in 2006. Played more freshman than anybody, many in key roles. The important thing is signing good players.

Go position by position. At quarterback, you have two guys with starting experience who IMO are more talented than Jacory. This is their second year in Fisch's system. The offensive line returns three starters and two NFL-type behemoths with experience at tackle. Walford and Hagans are front-end talents at their respective positions. The top two receivers return, including a potential first rounder, and Dorsett should give us a more reliable version of Benjamin. Miller's playmaking will be missed but James/Clements/Duke are three good all-around football players.

The defensive line returns just about everybody and should be improved with the continued development of Porter and Ojomo. Linebackers lose Spence, but bring back four guys (Perrman, Gaines, Cain and Buchanan) who have played significant snaps. Again, one more year in the system. We lose one good player in the secondary and return everybody else. That will continue to be a trouble spot.

No reason why we can't be a better version of this year's team. And a better version of this year's team wins a lot of those close games.

Money, write up your 2-deep and lets dissect it. I see much bigger problems than you and would like to swallow some optimism. Again, its the DEPTH I am worried about. The next 22 who end up getting a lot of reps or become starters at some point.

 

[bomb]

I think we'll be more talented next year, barring injuries. Depth will be an issue but we'll have a lot of talented young guys vying for time.

OL shouldn't be worse, and should be better in fact. WR should be solid with streeter, Hurns and dorsett. TE should be improved as we have several talented youngsters there. RB depends on Miller in part, but duke johnson may be he best rb we've had since gore. QB- should be no worse as Morris has a year to progress and Williams is supposedly okay also.

On D, we'll miss Spence but buchanon comes back and perryman's stepped up amd we'll have more new kids at LB. The unit should hopefully be better. DT will be better if only because of health and most guys back. DE probably improves with Chick in his second year. Safeties are back, so can't be worse. CB is the Q but is wasn't good his year. A LOT rides on whether the young DBs we bring in can see the field. If so, it will help a lot. If not, our options shrink and we may see a replay of this year's defensive schemes.

ST hopefully will be improved again, with more athletic youngsters to prove they deserve time.

We also lost 5 close games this year. I think we should look better and see a couple games improvement next year. But until we can compete physically on the LOS with the tougher teams we face, we aren't going to be back. That will take a seasonor two past next year, unfortunately.

1- Our best safety this year is graduating, JoJo. So I wouldn't say the "safeties are back."

2- Yes, our CB play was horrific, but 2 of our 3 best (****, we basically only had 3 CB's this year, and I use the term CB generously) are gone. I know we are all psyched to see marginal players move on, but its not about whose leaving, its about whose lining up next year. Again, give me your TWO DEEP at CB. And you should probably list 5 or 6 CB's for nickel.

3- And this is 10x as important as the first two items... I agree with most of the parts of your post above that are accurate. The trenches, (again, broken record, two deep scare me. But lets get down and dirty and again, talk TWO DEEP. People get hurt. People get suspended. People don't pan out. People need breathers. Re-do your post, and except this time instead of just top line starters, give me that 2-DEEP! Its scary as ****.

DT will be porter, forston (ugh), smith and probably grumble, plus whatever juco we can find. Not worse.

DB: true on Nicolas, forgot we're losing him. But a year ago his career at um was pretty undistinguished, as well. Craw ford's gotten praise on the scout team. Hopefully a light goes on for our hyped safeties who haven't done much on the field (vt and rra). At CB, I agree it's scary, but This time last year, Williams was t even at um and chambers was a rb. We need finnie and McGee to step up, but given how bad we were this year at cb I really don't expect us to be worse. We can switch someone else, find another transfer, a juco, hopefully some freshmen who can play. I expect AG will scour the earth medieval style for the next two months looking for CBs.

If you're saying that based on what you know now our two deep looks scary at cb, I say yup. True. But that was true last year as well.

We'll be younger next year, but on a unit basis I do t think we'll be worse. LB worries me without spnce but with a mix of maturation and new guys I think we'll be no worse -- again, because we weren't particularly good but for spence there anyhow. And perryman looks like the real deal.

If your point is youth even when talented translates to game-blowing mistakes, I can't disagree, but given our talent and this years record I do not see us taking a step backwards next year. IMO 7-5. Maybe 8-4 if things go well.

Broseph..

"whatever juco we can find"

"gotten praise on the scout team"

"hopefully a light goes on with (players) who haven't done much"

"CB, I agree its scary"

"we need *** to step up"

"we just can't (without explanation given) be worse at CB than we were this year" (click those heels and pray!

"we can switch someone else"

"find another transfer"

"find a juco"

"hopefully a true freshman can play"

"AG will scour the earth"

"I don't think we will be worse... because we weren't particularly good"


YOU ARE NOT HELPING MY AGITA!!!!

 

[bomb]

i want to believe that this team will be better next year, but i'm not optimistic. First off, some of you guys are taking for granted that Kehoe is gone and therefore the OL can't get worse. If he doesn't get fired, i expect zero improvement from the OL, and perhaps even some regression. Spence is leaving, and we still don't know if we can fill the MLB spot. Perryman did well for a freshman, but most of his quality reps have been as a will linebacker. Buchanan does nothing to impress me, and virtually no one on this team can seem to pressure the QB. If the DL doesn't significantly and monumentally improve, the inexperienced LBs are going to get killed. Depending on freshman CBs is a fool's game. It's one thing if the front seven is dominant, but i doubt that will be the case. Our "returning safeties" have quite often been trash this season. It would be great if they could finally perform up to expectations, but I'm not prepared to bet on that.

THIS. And our depth is going to be even worse. While the 2008 class might have been a disappointment to where it was rated, it was a **** of a lot better than 2009 and 2010. If RS has still been recruiting like a ****, he would have had more time given to him. We all saw nothing that showed it wasn't getting worse. Well, 2008 is gone, and those crappy 2009 and 2010 classes are being pushed to the forefront. We've run off a lot of guys (we needed to) to make room for new young in's but that's going to kill our depth.

I still REALLY want to see one of the more knowledgable guys here (I'm looking at you DMoney and Lu!) write up the 2012 2-deep for discussion. I **** my pants every time I think about it.

 

[tabes18]

Bomb is right about everyone wanting the CBs to be replaced, but with who? Until that position is fixed we are going get exposed because VT and Ray Ray help out in coverage. Look at today's game as a perfect example, the CBs got burnt by terrible WRs and there was no safety help. Maybe that was the scheme, but unless Tracey Howard and Deon Bush show up here or Finnie and MaGee have a heck of an off season, it is going to be another year of pitch and catch for mediocre QBs that we play. Wonder why Jacory looked so good in practice? Look who was defending his passes!

 

[IowaCane16]

Yep our back 7 on defense is going to be just as bad or worse next year, which is a scary **** thought. Nice recruiting in those 2 areas the last few years Shannon!

 

[AboutTheU05]

When you depend on a senior class for leadership and production and get as little of both as Miami did from this senior class then yes, there is such a thing as addition by subtraction. These kids were the most experienced and game ready kids Golden had for the situation he walked into, so them starting and playing for a coach with limited time to mold his culture in a program isnt surprising. Do what you have to with the situation presented to you.

Whatever physical talent these seniors brought, (outside of a select few) it was erased by blatent self entitlement, laziness, and a habit of folding in tough situations. Just on team mindest and work ethic alone I fully expect this team to improve under Golden with players he can mold from the start.

So while you may be nervous about what Miami will look like on paper, I see an attitude and mindset being replaced. Not to mention that, as I said before, some of the most productive kids on the team this year are coming back. Juniors that have proven to fully buy into the culture this year, with results showing.

 

[cinimonBun]

I feel like a broken record as I said this earlier in the year, but great DL play can make a mediocre secondary look very good. Don't know if the DL will be great but I think they've certainly got the potential. Vernon, Chick, Porter, and whoever takes the other starting DT job has the potential to be the best DL we've seen in several years. Of course we all know potential doesn't mean a thing, but I've got a lot more confidence in this coaching staff to develop these guys and get them playing to the best of their abilities.

 

[bomb]

Here is MB's 2-deep. I disagree with a bunch of it (the OL for instance, but I am posting it for the sake of argument (and because I am too lazy to type my own. I bolded the things that scare the **** out of me. Like I said, this 2-deep is full of guys who've never played a snap, or are already known to us as poor football players (or both). ****, there are guys on here, his 2-deep, that I don't even think will be on the team next year!!!

QB: Morris, Williams

RB: Duke Johnson/Clements or M James
FB: Hagens, Calhoun

WR: Streeter/Hurns, Dorsett/true freshman/true freshman
TE: Walford, Dye

LT: Henderson, Bunche
LG: BW, Wheeler
C: McDermott, ??????
RG: Linder, Wells
RT: Feliciano, Johnson

DE: Vernon/Chickillo, Green/Jelani Hamilton
DT: Forston/Porter, Smith/Ojomo

MLB: Perryman, Gaines
SLB: Cain, Johnson
WLB: Buchanan, Paul

CB: McGee/Finnie, 2 true freshmen
S: VT/Armstrong, Highsmith/Rodgers

K: Wieclaw
P: Botts

 

[DMoney]

Depth at quarterback is the best it's been in years. We will have four scholarship quarterbacks and no Spencer Whipples. The top two guys have starting experience and are more naturally suited for a pro style offense than Jacory, who is a spread guy at heart. At running back, there are going to be three good players there. Depth isn't the problem, we just need someone to emerge as top-shelf.

Tight end you have two athletic receivers in Walford and Cleveland and two big blockers in Dye and White (who was greatly missed this year). No issue there.

Offensive line has an experienced and gifted top five. All five look like future NFL Players physically. These are the guys Stoutland was talking about when he said he had better talent in Miami than Alabama. McDermott and Wheeler are players to watch in the spring. Haven't seen it yet but Golden speaks highly of them. I'm still a believer that Jermaine Johnson can contribute somewhere on either line. Flowers could be ready for spot minutes a la Orlando Franklin or Seantrel. Jeremy Lewis probably isn't looking at playing time but is showing promise and could emerge as a surprise sixth offensive linemen and Tervaris Johnson award winner.

Defensive line, the depth is better than this year. Porter's emergence gives you power (with Darius Smith backing him up) and Ojomo can develop into a quality nickel rusher to go along with Forston. This position worries me most on the team long-term because I don't see war daddies in the freshman and sophomore classes. Linebackers you have four athletic guys who have played a lot. Perryman is ready for stardom. Cain and Gaines should be expected to make strides in Year 2 of D'Onfrio's system. Golden has been signing LBs like crazy so some of these young players need to be ready to contribute. They have the size that has been lacking.

The secondary is still ugly. The hope is that the young corners will get their lumps in early and show promise.

Bottom-line: I expect a talented offense with a lot of future NFLers operating at a high level. I expect an improved defense with some of the same weaknesses as this year but more experience. With a team that was close in its losses and dominant in its wins, that will be a significant change. We don't have the horses on D to truly make a run, but there will be enough to know if it's headed in the right direction.

 

[bomb]

I see 11 freshmen on that 2 deep.

Someone talk me off the ledge.

2013 and 2014. Set it up for the future.

 

[Joecane]

Why would Buchanon scare you at WLB?