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Position Coach Preferences, WR group

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rokulika said:
Aside from Thomas and Osborn...can they get open?
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I think you kinda need the all 22 for that answer but I was wondering if kids were getting separation as well. Zero clue if they were or were not just curious due to snap counts of players.
 
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Another huge problem was our snail like tempo on offense. We need to pick that up dramatically. When you’re running 60 plays you’re giving guys a lot less chance to play. We should be over 80 plays every week.

P. S. Still not sure what the draw was with Stubblefield. Seemed to be on a downward trajectory in what was already an undistinguished career.
 
The Franchise said:
Another huge problem was our snail like tempo on offense. We need to pick that up dramatically. When you’re running 60 plays you’re giving guys a lot less chance to play. We should be over 80 plays every week.

P. S. Still not sure what the draw was with Stubblefield. Seemed to be on a downward trajectory in what was already an undistinguished career.
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Couldn't agree more re: your wish. Not sure that's gonna happen, but we'll see.

Don't think it was ever asked or answered, but they had some real problems getting the plays in during the early parts in Orlando. Somehow wasn't getting Jarren and the huddle was all over the place. They settled down, but it was sloppy out there for a minute.
 
The Franchise said:
Another huge problem was our snail like tempo on offense. We need to pick that up dramatically. When you’re running 60 plays you’re giving guys a lot less chance to play. We should be over 80 plays every week.

P. S. Still not sure what the draw was with Stubblefield. Seemed to be on a downward trajectory in what was already an undistinguished career.
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I'm still scratching my head in regards to Stubblefield....
 
LuCane said:
Couldn't agree more re: your wish. Not sure that's gonna happen, but we'll see.

Don't think it was ever asked or answered, but they had some real problems getting the plays in during the early parts in Orlando. Somehow wasn't getting Jarren and the huddle was all over the place. They settled down, but it was sloppy out there for a minute.
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It looked sloppy and slow for a long time. I hate taking a team with skill talent like ours and slogging the pace down to zero. Get another 20 plays in against uf, and that’s 20 more chances for guys like Hightower and Pope and Payton to get reps.
 
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The Franchise said:
Let’s get more than a 1 game sample, but it’s definitely very common for coaches to have favorites. And sometimes those favorites aren’t necessarily the best players. Happens all the time whether it’s consciously or subconsciously.
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I need you to say this a little louder for the Naive Steve's in the back!
 
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Calvin said:
That's the main reason harley plays, because since he's been here, he's been one of our best blocking wideouts, but also one of our best and trusted route runners. He understands route running concepts bettter, case in point, when jt4 caught that square in for a 1st down on 3rd and 15. So while harley has not been making alot of catches, he definitely knows what he is doing out their and elevates the passing game. The pope on his only catch, that was a terrible route, and he looked a lil lost, he also slipped, he needs to keep working, the talent is their tho, plus you cant run receiver screens to his side unless he's getting the ball, but his nor hightower's blocking are where they should be.

Also, hightower like pope are trying to grasp this new playbook, hightower is not the type of receiver that stubblefield's teaching techniques will mess right away, we'll see though if stubblefield coaches to his players strengths or just to the same technique for everybody. That is the one thing coach richt and coach dugans were keen on, coaching to a players strengths, if you're a big receiver, that was going to be the emphasis, but the good news about stubblefield, you not playing much if he cant trust you in live game situations, he'll just go with who knows ttheir stuff, so if guys really want to play, they know what they gotta do, seems like the days of handing out participation trophies at wideout are over with!
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That play showed a lot of the simple things that need to get better. That should have been an automatic adjust to a smoke route. No reason to run a slant into a dB sitting at 10 yards looking at the qb to make a break on the ball. Raise up and throw it so your wr can make a move and possibly get gone. It’s the little things. Our offensive operation was horrible. I know it was the first game but dam Enos u making big bucks to make sure we don’t look like dogsht.
 
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Hopefully with another 2 weeks to practice and get things more down in terms of plays, Enos will take off the kid gloves with Jarren and the offense and run more plays. I think given the enormity of the Week 0 game against a quality opponent like Uf that he felt compelled to slow things down to make sure the plays called worked properly. At least that’s the only reason I can see as to why we didn’t go up tempo and reduce their ability to substitute.
 
LuCane said:
One of the things I'll look for against UNC is the WR snap count. Perhaps UF was an anomaly, but I watched a bunch of quick guys lineup together toward the end of the game. It was odd to me. First, I wish the press would ask Coach Enos who decides the position personnel groupings during the game. Then, I'd ask our WR coach what he looks for in his WRs.

Why? Because I think too often position coaches look for themselves in players. A DB coach sometimes gravitates toward players who have attributes they may have had. The coach knows what to do with those attributes and often values them more, so intentionally or not, his players get judged on those. For the record, I think this is a problem. I think a position coach should judge players for how they fit the overall scheme, but many might not be able to see the big picture while in the weeds. Maybe we're doing that to fit Enos' scheme needs. I don't know yet.

If you look at our WR coach's history, he's a technical dude who focuses on getting in and out of breaks, quicks and overall awareness. I haven't watched enough practice to say, but I was disappointed with Brian Hightower's snap count in Game1 because I thought he was a good matchup as the Split End to body the UF corners. That's just one example.

UF was only one game and maybe my gut is wrong here to even look for this, but I think it's important to identify the beginning of a trend. We can begin to do that with what our WR groupings will look like against UNC.
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What you're saying makes sense, but don't you usually play your best guys? Like maybe Hightower matches up well on paper, but he looked like crap in practice. What I mean is, if you think player x is your best WR do you sit him down because you think player Y has attributes that will help you against this particular team? And what if you don't trust player Ys hands/route running/ball security as much?

It's not wrong to keep your best guy on the field, and it's not wrong to bring in a guy you think matches up well in a specific way. I think you have to decide who has the best blend of attributes and play that guy, so the speedster or tall guy or best runner might not see the field today. Just depends on what you're looking for. There were times last year where I would have happily traded half our WR for one guy who would catch everything but only had one leg. If you can't catch the ball, who cares about how good an athlete you are?

Like Berrios on PR. People *****ed because he didn't tend to house them, but wasn't securing the ball and picking up 10 yds worth something?
 
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AtrainCane said:
That play showed a lot of the simple things that need to get better. That should have been an automatic adjust to a smoke route. No reason to run a slant into a dB sitting at 10 yards looking at the qb to make a break on the ball. Raise up and throw it so your wr can make a move and possibly get gone. It’s the little things. Our offensive operation was horrible. I know it was the first game but dam Enos u making big bucks to make sure we don’t look like dogsht.
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Exactly, that's why after the game i said ok, coach enos wants to do public qb evals, than let's evaluate him, 3points off 4 turnovers, not gone get it done. You got young tackles getting worked but we still calling for 5 and 7 step drops after he see's the adjustments that need to be made. Than to make matters worst, why was will mallory left in the gameinstead of bringing in irvin to help offset the physicality, pretty much every play that was ran to mallory's side was a complete failure. Than we running jet sweeps with osborn, if you gone bring the pope in, that's your jet sweep guy, either him, deejay and jt4, tate and osborn should be null an void in the jet sweep game. Its still comical and pathetic to me that both diaz and enos triec to give transfer tate credit for the deejay dallas touchdown, when that man been scoring touchdowns on the big stage, in the wildcat since he got here and way before transfer tate ever set foot on campus, that was disrespectful to deejay, and coach diaz was definitely smoking whatever coach enos was, by talking that nonsebse about d-co's needing to be worried about where transfer tate is during games, lol, based off what resume. Apparently the only d-co worried about where transfer tate is during games is coach diaz, that's why he over played em over other guys, because you must be worried for some reason that he'll transfer.

But yeah man, coach enos seems like the type who over thinks things to much, we need to start lining up in the power-I, and just start working on moving people, until we earn the right to pass the ball. That schizophrenic offense coach enis ran against the gaytors, only looked solid and made sense on the 1st drive, after that, im just curious if coach enos knows how to set defenses up from drive to drive! Not that he was the best oc, bht i still luv that play coach whipple callled against Oklahoma, where they fake tossed it to the right, glue hands dragged to the left underneath and was wide open, see @ the 7:02sec mark:



In fact he's the oc at pittsburgh now, that should be an interesting game, lol!
 
LuCane said:
One of the things I'll look for against UNC is the WR snap count. Perhaps UF was an anomaly, but I watched a bunch of quick guys lineup together toward the end of the game. It was odd to me. First, I wish the press would ask Coach Enos who decides the position personnel groupings during the game. Then, I'd ask our WR coach what he looks for in his WRs.

Why? Because I think too often position coaches look for themselves in players. A DB coach sometimes gravitates toward players who have attributes they may have had. The coach knows what to do with those attributes and often values them more, so intentionally or not, his players get judged on those. For the record, I think this is a problem. I think a position coach should judge players for how they fit the overall scheme, but many might not be able to see the big picture while in the weeds. Maybe we're doing that to fit Enos' scheme needs. I don't know yet.

If you look at our WR coach's history, he's a technical dude who focuses on getting in and out of breaks, quicks and overall awareness. I haven't watched enough practice to say, but I was disappointed with Brian Hightower's snap count in Game1 because I thought he was a good matchup as the Split End to body the UF corners. That's just one example.

UF was only one game and maybe my gut is wrong here to even look for this, but I think it's important to identify the beginning of a trend. We can begin to do that with what our WR groupings will look like against UNC.
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Agree and I feel pretty strongly about this...I played high D1 (in another sport) And was raised by a father that played the same level (in a different sport) and coached top tier youth teams down here when I was growing up- and still does. I’ve never understood how he gave the upper hand to players he preferred for work ethic- over production and talent. Mark Pope needs to see the field more and We need to sub less across the board. Life isn’t fair and this isn’t Rec League.
 
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kryptonite said:
What you're saying makes sense, but don't you usually play your best guys? Like maybe Hightower matches up well on paper, but he looked like crap in practice. What I mean is, if you think player x is your best WR do you sit him down because you think player Y has attributes that will help you against this particular team? And what if you don't trust player Ys hands/route running/ball security as much?

It's not wrong to keep your best guy on the field, and it's not wrong to bring in a guy you think matches up well in a specific way. I think you have to decide who has the best blend of attributes and play that guy, so the speedster or tall guy or best runner might not see the field today. Just depends on what you're looking for. There were times last year where I would have happily traded half our WR for one guy who would catch everything but only had one leg. If you can't catch the ball, who cares about how good an athlete you are?

Like Berrios on PR. People *****ed because he didn't tend to house them, but wasn't securing the ball and picking up 10 yds worth something?
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I think his point is that maybe Stubblefield is wrong on who the best WRs are based on his own predilections concerning ideal WR attributes. It’s not unprecedented for coaches to play the wrong guys based on favoritism or just miscalculation.

****, Booch David played Dyral McMillan ahead of Edgerrin James and Ike Mercer ahead of Shockey. Shanntard saw himself in Cook and played him over Art Brown. The list is endless if you want to dig.
 
LuCane said:
That’s a good question. My answer to someone who asked and threw back my obsession with separation/shuttle in my face was this: In college, does it matter as much? You can win in multiple ways in college. I strongly doubt CBs can hang with Hightower boxing them out whether he’s created separation or not, for example.
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How about this! Sometimes it seems as if they are not running their routes to the fullest. It's like they are going through the motions but if you sell your routes it's more opportunities for the team.
 
canesthing3 said:
Not talking about OP and I’m not defensive, that’s the thing, idgaf who plays. I figured his post would trigger the Tate plays too much crowd and I’m tired of all the whining about it after just 1 game.
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Ok. But how does Martell get so much burn after a few weeks at WR? I think him moving to slot is great, but I expected him to see the field next year.

For the most part, when Martell was on the field, it looked like mostly gadget plays that seemed to disrupt the flow of the offense and were ineffective with the exception of 1-2 plays. It was nothing against Tate or how he performed. I just think we got away from what was successful to try to trick plays.
 
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