Please help me understand - Mario Cristobal

[DMoney]

Exactly. Where is ONE person raving about his actual COACHING at Alabamy? There are fans of that program screaming about it sucking as of THIS WEEK.

Someone who coached with him at Alabama said he was a great teacher. And this guy is not shy about criticizing former colleagues, which is why I didn't dismiss it off-hand.

The numbers aren't really clear. The three years before Cristobal got there, Alabama's average rank in sack percentage was 81st. With Cristobal, the average rose to 32nd. But their average rank in yards per rush went from 12th to 27th.

Again, Cristobal is not my choice. Not even in my top 5. But I don't think it's impossible for him to succeed here.

 

[RaiseCane]

There are currently 8 FBS jobs open, with 2 at or above our level (USCw and USCe (think this is below, but maybe on par)), one a bit below (Maryland), and several well below ours (Illinois, North Texas and Minnesota). There will likely be several more opening (Purdue, Va Tech?, Virginia, Rutgers, etc.). I would bet that the only jobs Cristobal is even considered for are UCF and Rutgers. What does that tell you? Sure, fit is an important consideration for all jobs, and some guys fit better in certain places than others, but programs that are close to or below our level aren't even going to consider him. If he was this great coach, with this elite ability to recruit, and the ability to bring a great staff, he would be mentioned in the same breath as guys like Smart, Frost, Pruett, etc. as guys who are serious candidates for big jobs. He's not.

Again, no one is expecting us to drop $5m+ and reach for guys like Saban, Meyer, etc. But, it is not unfair to expect the program to at least attempt to hire a coach that is widely seen as qualified for this type of position. Cristobal is far from that guy.

 

[AUcane]

Fired by fiu. Good enough at miami

Lol at recruiting at alabama. Every year they was #1 before mario got there lol they ait going there for freakin mario they going there for nick saban. Lol smh

Come be tight ends coach

Is he even a good TEs coach? This is my problem with Cuban Alf - never been a coordinator, never been a good position coach and he's been a very good recruiter at Miami and bama (which isn't that hard). ****, might as well keep coley and promote him as HBC.

 

[Tad Footeball]

Exactly. Where is ONE person raving about his actual COACHING at Alabamy? There are fans of that program screaming about it sucking as of THIS WEEK.

Someone who coached with him at Alabama said he was a great teacher. And this guy is not shy about criticizing former colleagues, which is why I didn't dismiss it off-hand.

The numbers aren't really clear. The three years before Cristobal got there, Alabama's average rank in sack percentage was 81st. With Cristobal, the average rose to 32nd. But their average rank in yards per rush went from 12th to 27th.

Again, Cristobal is not my choice. Not even in my top 5. But I don't think it's impossible for him to succeed here.

I respect your views but I think the only real reasons you implied that he MIGHT be okay here goes back to those old arguments placing all the emphasis on community relationships and recruiting. If Golden proved anything it's that those things are demolished in importance if a guy turns out to be a gameday corch and inept in player development.

 

[brcane1]

For you anti Mario guys, would you take Mario if he came in with a DC like Todd Orlando and an up and comer for an OC?

Why would you bring in a HC that you KNOW won't actually bring any football acumen to the table. You might as well be sacrificing a coaching slot on an organizer / recruiter.

 

[The Franchise]

D$ what are your thoughts on Mario as a HC candidate?

He would not be my choice. And given the state of the program, I can understand why people would be angry if he was hired.

However, I think it's possible that he succeeds here. He would need to hire a great staff, which is a reasonable expectation given his history and connections. He would also need to a strong evaluator (no idea how he stacks up here).

I started asking around about Mario back in 2013, and I was surprised by how much support he has in the black community. He is very well-respected. I have also heard from multiple football people (not at UM) who swear he is the right guy.

It's at least feasible that he comes in, signs a Top 10 class this year, infuses an already talented roster with difference-makers (think Calvin Ridley), hires a defensive coordinator who makes a massive difference right away, and rides Kaaya to early success. If he succeeds early, it could breed more success. And he would have young QBs in the pipeline.

So, in sum: not my choice, but I'm not giving up on the program if he's hired.

I suppose my follow-up question then is: what is the great disconnect between Mario "on paper" and Mario "in person"? On paper, you'd think he wouldn't even get a phone call, let alone be a legitimate candidate for HC here. That said, I keep reading from multiple people who should know better about such things that they think he'd be a great hire and would do well here. So what's the appeal? Is it simply his personality and recruiting acumen? Is he a snake-charmer? I know almost nothing about him except what's "on paper" so I'm genuinely curious - what are we missing?

His friends advocate for him as a coach for the same reason that he's a good recruiter--he's got a charming personality. Same reason people still think Folden is a good coach who just didn't fit here. People get duped whether they're other coaches or recruits. It happens. Anyone advocating for Mario as HC of UM is just a person who likes him personally or hates the UM program.

 

[LuCane]

One thing I'd like addressed:

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Will we attract talent based on Miami being the very best place to grow into an NFL player? For that, you need some highly technical people on staff.

 

[DMoney]

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Under my devil's advocate scenario (and you know Cristobal is not my guy), I'll respond like this:

It will not be hard for a coach to have early success with this set-up. All he needs to do is improve the defense and keep Kaaya alive. That is different than what Shannon and Golden inherited. If he hires the right defensive coordinator, we have the talent for a quick turnaround there. And if Cristobal has early success on the field and in recruiting, it becomes easier to maintain that success. I don't see him as a recruiting dunce like Erickson and Coker who will totally botch local momentum.

Of course, there are a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is why it's a scary choice.

 

[ghost2]

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Under my devil's advocate scenario (and you know Cristobal is not my guy), I'll respond like this:

It will not be hard for a coach to have early success with this set-up. All he needs to do is improve the defense and keep Kaaya alive. That is different than what Shannon and Golden inherited. If he hires the right defensive coordinator, we have the talent for a quick turnaround there. And if Cristobal has early success on the field and in recruiting, it becomes easier to maintain that success. I don't see him as a recruiting dunce like Erickson and Coker who will totally botch local momentum.

Of course, there are a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is why it's a scary choice.

Another follow-up regarding Mario's actual coaching, if you don't mind. One of my personal prerequisites for a new coach is that he have an identifiable and demonstrable offensive or defensive philosophy. We know what Tom Herman runs. We're even familiar with Chud's offenses and Schiano's defenses for better or worse. Getting back to Lu's original question - what does Mario "run"? He's an offensive-minded coach, but what did he run at FIU? If he keeps Coley, do you think the Coley-Cristobal offense would run better than the Coley-Golden offense (i.e. was Golden really hamstringing Coley's playcalling?)

 

[OrangetieFatface]

I've heard some pretty convincing arguments in his favor including knowing the program and truly understanding south Florida and our expectations; and His success is predicated on the condition of him hiring a great staff.

If we go that route, wouldn't chud have more credibility when hiring a staff?

I don't like either option, but it seems like an actual possibility.

 

[ghost2]

so if his success is predicated on hiring a great staff - why is keeping Coley an option?

 

[Consigliere]

There is a reason why his name isn't tossed around for coordinator gigs. There is a reason why his name isn't tossed around for HC gigs.

To be fair, Pittsburgh and Rutgers tried to hire him. From what I've been told, those interviews ****ed off Pete Garcia and ultimately led to his firing.

Of course, we're talking about Pittsburgh and Rutgers, not Miami.

Do you think they want him today? My guess is no.

As for ****ing off Pete Garcia, I am sure it had nothing to do with going 3-9 (2-6).

 

[OrangetieFatface]

so if his success is predicated on hiring a great staff - why is keeping Coley an option?

I would hope that it's not an option.

 

[Ibis Wingz]

D$ what are your thoughts on Mario as a HC candidate?

He would not be my choice. And given the state of the program, I can understand why people would be angry if he was hired.

However, I think it's possible that he succeeds here. He would need to hire a great staff, which is a reasonable expectation given his history and connections. He would also need to a strong evaluator (no idea how he stacks up here).

I started asking around about Mario back in 2013, and I was surprised by how much support he has in the black community. He is very well-respected. I have also heard from multiple football people (not at UM) who swear he is the right guy.

It's at least feasible that he comes in, signs a Top 10 class this year, infuses an already talented roster with difference-makers (think Calvin Ridley), hires a defensive coordinator who makes a massive difference right away, and rides Kaaya to early success. If he succeeds early, it could breed more success. And he would have young QBs in the pipeline.

So, in sum: not my choice, but I'm not giving up on the program if he's hired.

I suppose my follow-up question then is: what is the great disconnect between Mario "on paper" and Mario "in person"? On paper, you'd think he wouldn't even get a phone call, let alone be a legitimate candidate for HC here. That said, I keep reading from multiple people who should know better about such things that they think he'd be a great hire and would do well here. So what's the appeal? Is it simply his personality and recruiting acumen? Is he a snake-charmer? I know almost nothing about him except what's "on paper" so I'm genuinely curious - what are we missing?

His friends advocate for him as a coach for the same reason that he's a good recruiter--he's got a charming personality. Same reason people still think Folden is a good coach who just didn't fit here. People get duped whether they're other coaches or recruits. It happens. Anyone advocating for Mario as HC of UM is just a person who likes him personally or hates the UM program.

I have some close friends who are very close with Mario. They love him and are pushing hard for him. You are exactly correct as to why they like him, because he is a very personable guy and they want to see their friend succeed.

 

[UMAlum21]

Would be a disaster, and we know it's coming.

The guy got fired at FIU for ***** sake.

I can not and will not support a program with him here. To bring him in after the last 3 failures is insulting.

 

[brock]

I've heard some pretty convincing arguments in his favor including knowing the program and truly understanding south Florida and our expectations; and His success is predicated on the condition of him hiring a great staff.

If we go that route, wouldn't chud have more credibility when hiring a staff?

I don't like either option, but it seems like an actual possibility.

We don't know if chud wants to recruit anymore, he has been out that game for too long. If he did comeback he would HAVE to bring back Cristobal on his staff with him.

 

[DMoney]

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Under my devil's advocate scenario (and you know Cristobal is not my guy), I'll respond like this:

It will not be hard for a coach to have early success with this set-up. All he needs to do is improve the defense and keep Kaaya alive. That is different than what Shannon and Golden inherited. If he hires the right defensive coordinator, we have the talent for a quick turnaround there. And if Cristobal has early success on the field and in recruiting, it becomes easier to maintain that success. I don't see him as a recruiting dunce like Erickson and Coker who will totally botch local momentum.

Of course, there are a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is why it's a scary choice.

Another follow-up regarding Mario's actual coaching, if you don't mind. One of my personal prerequisites for a new coach is that he have an identifiable and demonstrable offensive or defensive philosophy. We know what Tom Herman runs. We're even familiar with Chud's offenses and Schiano's defenses for better or worse. Getting back to Lu's original question - what does Mario "run"? He's an offensive-minded coach, but what did he run at FIU? If he keeps Coley, do you think the Coley-Cristobal offense would run better than the Coley-Golden offense (i.e. was Golden really hamstringing Coley's playcalling?)

You have identified the biggest reason why I don't want Cristobal.

The FIU hiring doesn't bother me because he did a good job and got screwed. But the lack of any schematic advantage is a deal breaker after what we've been through the past decade.

 

[AUcane]

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Under my devil's advocate scenario (and you know Cristobal is not my guy), I'll respond like this:

It will not be hard for a coach to have early success with this set-up. All he needs to do is improve the defense and keep Kaaya alive. That is different than what Shannon and Golden inherited. If he hires the right defensive coordinator, we have the talent for a quick turnaround there. And if Cristobal has early success on the field and in recruiting, it becomes easier to maintain that success. I don't see him as a recruiting dunce like Erickson and Coker who will totally botch local momentum.

Of course, there are a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is why it's a scary choice.

Another follow-up regarding Mario's actual coaching, if you don't mind. One of my personal prerequisites for a new coach is that he have an identifiable and demonstrable offensive or defensive philosophy. We know what Tom Herman runs. We're even familiar with Chud's offenses and Schiano's defenses for better or worse. Getting back to Lu's original question - what does Mario "run"? He's an offensive-minded coach, but what did he run at FIU? If he keeps Coley, do you think the Coley-Cristobal offense would run better than the Coley-Golden offense (i.e. was Golden really hamstringing Coley's playcalling?)

You have identified the biggest reason why I don't want Cristobal.

The FIU hiring doesn't bother me because he did a good job and got screwed. But the lack of any schematic advantage is a deal breaker after what we've been through the past decade.

This is the bottom line for me, D. He's never been a coordinator or good positional coach (hear conflicting things about OL/TE coaching tenures). So where does that leave him? New coach HAS to show that he can gameplan/scheme. We cannot afford to hire a HBC that is completely dependent on the coordinators to gameplan/scheme. What happens if he hires crappy coordinators or if he hires good ones, they leave after a year or 2?

 

[LuCane]

We've heard of Mario being a good recruiter because he pulls "difference makers." D$ mentioned Calvin Ridley as an example. Perhaps in the first year or two, like Shannon, I can see this is possible - maybe even likely. After that, don't those recruits eventually just go back to the Clemsons, Bamas, OSUs, etc., because of winning and, well, "other incentives?"

Under my devil's advocate scenario (and you know Cristobal is not my guy), I'll respond like this:

It will not be hard for a coach to have early success with this set-up. All he needs to do is improve the defense and keep Kaaya alive. That is different than what Shannon and Golden inherited. If he hires the right defensive coordinator, we have the talent for a quick turnaround there. And if Cristobal has early success on the field and in recruiting, it becomes easier to maintain that success. I don't see him as a recruiting dunce like Erickson and Coker who will totally botch local momentum.

Of course, there are a lot of "if's" in that scenario, which is why it's a scary choice.

Understood. And, I'm playing along:

While I think, as my discussion with Medley last night showed, I'd trust what happens on defense more (how is it possible not to?), I would be highly concerned with our offense. Yes, we'll have Kaaya in the short term. He helps stabilize. But, we're about to face a bit of a change in the ACC Coastal. As one example, we have to face Narduzzi every year. I'm not saying we should lose to them, but I'm saying it's a scary thought to have someone like Coach Coley matched up against Narduzzi. It tells me we're already fighting uphill. What's more, I expect Rich Rod to be the coach of VTech. I've mentioned this in other threads. He will likely team up with Bud Foster (whose contract is still alive and well) to form a highly technical duo. I've written hundreds of posts about doing less with more or finding someone with an elite aspect, and we're potentially back to this.

I just find it disappointing that we will be seemingly scattered, once again, from a technical standpoint. And, now against some other technical guys. I get the jimmies and joes thing. However, if we've learned anything, it's that jimmies and joes look better or worse based on technical and cultural factors.

I see risk. A lot of risk. Is it possible for him to be successful? I guess so. Kevin Garnett told us anything is possiiiiiiiiible.

 

[JimmyJohnsonsHair]

You take "Miami alumni" off his resume and he would not even be in the conversation. As someone said in another thread, this is the potato litmus test. If you want Mario Cristobal to be our next coach, you are a potato.