P.J. Fleck- A Leader of Men

[Zbrod95]

So how does it [our system] get fixed?

I think it starts making violation of oath/misconduct a more serious crime. I can tell you for a fact when I was working as a medic I knew if I messed up and pushed something that killed somebody I was going doing 15 minimum. Maybe it starts with making general misconduct more than just a firable offense and having a seperate homicide law just for wrongful death by a police officer/federal agent.

Put an actual blueprint out there to meet for we can move faster in these situations.

 

[OBLIVION]

It can easily be manslaughter. They’ll look at Murder 2 as well I’d think. He’ll try to plea down to involuntary manslaughter.

It will be murder 3 and he'll get the same sentence that another former Minneapolis officer Mohamed Noor got for shooting down Justine Damond, 12.5 years.

 

[Empirical Cane]

My larger question (before the mods go beta and delete it) is this:

Can the Balkanization of what was, in spirit, the former United States be reversed?

I strongly believe it can not for anyone over 15-ish years old.

The only chance, the only hope, is for those young pups today to pick up the pieces and try and restore the Shining City on the hill 30-40 years from now.

If we even last that long.

 

[Salt]

We had this conversation in another thread. It’s a continuation of that conversation which was centered on whether they needed to wait on an autopsy to charge the cops with a crime.

The video was enough to at least charge with negligent homicide, or something to that effect (I am not a lawyer) so I can agree on that. Autopsy needed to show more evidence to up the charge.

I think we are all in agreement some type of crime was committed.

 

[RVACane]

It will be murder 3 and he'll get the same sentence that another former Minneapolis officer Mohamed Noor got for shooting down Justine Damond, 12.5 years.

I’m having a hard time distinguishing between Murder 3 and Voluntary Manslaughter.

 

[1LuvCane]

So if his young black players are feeling some degree of pain after the whole country witnessed an execution, they are pussies??? You can’t be that stupid. I’m guessing you are some internet tough guy who drives a big truck and buys big guns to compensate for his insecurities.

You're stupid brother. You want to know how tough I am try me out big boy. Lastly if they're males and their triggered and hurt they're pussies. You don't know anything outside of your little shell. Keep using stereotypes like if any one you use them against really care. What difference do you really make? Nothing. Just a speck of salt in the sand. Go F off with your high and mighty self. ***** boy....

 

[RVACane]

The video was enough to at least charge with negligent homicide, or something to that effect (I am not a lawyer) so I can agree on that. Autopsy needed to show more evidence to up the charge.

I think we are all in agreement some type of crime was committed.

Yeah that’s pretty much what I was saying In the other thread. People get charged with attempted murder and then a victim dies 2 days later and the charge is upped to murder.

 

[Empirical Cane]

I think it starts making violation of oath/misconduct a more serious crime. I can tell you for a fact when I was working as a medic I knew if I messed up and pushed something that killed somebody I was going doing 15 minimum. Maybe if starts with making general misconduct more than just a firing offense and having a seperate homicide law just for wrongful death by a police officer/federal agent.

I have a long advocated this: place ALL government officials, professional and elected, from entry level to POTUS, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice*.

Talk about breaking eggs to make an omelet, you would see massive change and quickly.

Other changes*:
1) Military height, weight and physical fitness standards for LE and firefighters
2) Institute up or out promotion system
3) PCS all LE and fire fighters NATIONALLY just like military

I believe our society would see significant changes for the better.

*Not perfect, but light years better than what we have now

 

[Salt]

My larger question (before the mods go beta and delete it) is this:

Can the Balkanization of what was, in spirit, the former United States be reversed?

I strongly believe it can not for anyone over 15-ish years old.

The only chance, the only hope, is for those young pups today to pick up the pieces and try and restore the Shining City on the hill 30-40 years from now.

If we even last that long.

Young pups unfortunately being taught/indoctrinated America was founded on racist ideology so there is nothing to restore. They may want to remake but it would be nothing like the founders envisioned.

 

[Empirical Cane]

Young pups unfortunately being taught/indoctrinated America was founded on racist ideology so there is nothing to restore. They may want to remake but it would be nothing like the founders envisioned.

I suspect you are right.

 

[Zbrod95]

I have a long advocated this: place ALL government officials, professional and elected, from entry level to POTUS, under the Uniform Code of Military Justice*.

Talk about breaking eggs to make an omelet, you would see massive change and quickly.

Other changes*:
1) Military height, weight and physical fitness standards for LE and firefighters
2) Institute up or out promotion system
3) PCS all LE and fire fighters NATIONALLY just like military

I believe our society would see significant changes for the better.

*Not perfect, but light years better than what we have now

As long as it sets a clear blueprint to meet and allows us to move faster in these situations I would be game.

 

[BS85]

So remember when I said an autopsy need to be done to help with the charges? It was done today. Reports are flying around that he had cardiac issues and drugs in his system.

STILL I want to make it clear that even though that was possibly found in his system that the officer is still criminally negligent due to the fact he failed to render aid.

@OriginalGatorHater
@305to954
@RVACane
@Zombie-Cane
@1LuvCane
@Empirical Cane
@BS85

You said the cops couldn't be arrested without charges (this was actually the only thing I initially argued about and I was correct) and that charges couldn't be changed which isn't true. Your argument(s) was/were actually wrong in several ways.

1) The police could have been arrested immediately on suspicion of murder or assault, etc. Most states also allow you to hold someone without charges for up to 72 hours at least. You said arrest without charges wasn't possible.

2) Only prosecutors can press charges, not police. So if that's the case how does anyone get arrested if they're caught in the act of a crime? Are all cops also prosecutors who immediately press charges while performing the arrest? Obviously not.

3) Also (and this wasn't even part of my initial argument but you were wrong on this too), a prosecutor is not bound by an initial charging decision, but may later change the charged crimes once more evidence is obtained. You said several times this would somehow be a get out of jail free card but charges can change which throws that argument out the window.

You referenced double jeopardy here but double jeopardy simply states that you can't be tried twice for the same crime. The charges can change before the client is tried.

 

[Empirical Cane]

As long as it sets a clear blueprint to meet and allows us to move faster in these situations I would be game.

UCMJ is not perfect by any stretch, but LIGHT YEARS ahead of what we have now. Particularly in holding officials accountable.

 

[Zbrod95]

My larger question (before the mods go beta and delete it) is this:

Can the Balkanization of what was, in spirit, the former United States be reversed?

I strongly believe it can not for anyone over 15-ish years old.

The only chance, the only hope, is for those young pups today to pick up the pieces and try and restore the Shining City on the hill 30-40 years from now.

If we even last that long.

It starts with putting together looser guidelines for the school boards to follow and making civics class, history, and economics important again. History is such a poorly taught subject because it’s treated as a dumping ground for teachers.

 

[1LuvCane]

Kap is a bum that's wby he's making no bread. Got nothing to do with politics. The non profit leeches are fake scandal cry babies. Public education has done its job of poisoning the easily influenced ....

 

[Salt]

I suspect you are right.

I have a 20 year old son majoring in Poly Sci. and that is the mindset. It certainly did not come from his upbringing. They can't seem to separate the flaws inherent in men from the ideals.

 

[Miami[]_[]Smoke]

Not the looters fault they didn't put armed security around the store, it's not like they can't afford it. But keep making it about the looters instead of the conditions that lead up to the protesting and looting.

would looting have been grounds for the armed security to open fire or are they just expected to be empty threat Deterrents?

 

[1LuvCane]

Did I reaď Floyd's family authorized M Baden to perform a second autopsy?

Michael Baden - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Some are really, REALLY not going to like his background.

Just like their lawyer. This poor family has already been over taken by the agenda driven non profit leeches. I hope they at least get some type of compensation for this. They're being pawned out...

 

[1LuvCane]

You said the cops couldn't be arrested without charges (this was actually the only thing I initially argued about and I was correct) and that charges couldn't be changed which isn't true. Your argument(s) was/were actually wrong in several ways.

1) The police could have been arrested immediately on suspicion of murder or assault, etc. Most states also allow you to hold someone without charges for up to 72 hours at least. You said arrest without charges wasn't possible.

2) Only prosecutors can press charges, not police. So if that's the case how does anyone get arrested if they're caught in the act of a crime? Are all cops also prosecutors who immediately press charges while performing the arrest? Obviously not.

3) Also (and this wasn't even part of my initial argument but you were wrong on this too), a prosecutor is not bound by an initial charging decision, but may later change the charged crimes once more evidence is obtained. You said several times this would somehow be a get out of jail free card but charges can change which throws that argument out the window.

You referenced double jeopardy here but double jeopardy simply states that you can't be tried twice for the same crime. The charges can change before the client is tried.

Ignorant down voting Nancy. You're the epitomy of soft...

 

[Salt]

It starts with putting together looser guidelines for the school boards to follow and making civics class, history, and economics important again. History is such a poorly taught subject because it’s treated as a dumping ground for teachers.

I'm in public education and I don't think it's a dumping ground. Teachers teaching social studies are genuinely interested in the subject. And at least in Florida, Civics is mandated in middle school and there is a state assessment just like in Reading and Math.

If it is poorly taught that has more to do with teacher competency or perhaps poor curriculum and there is certainly room for debate in those areas.