OT: What's Antonio Brown's Trade Value?

[supersaiyanshel]

Everyone doesn't have Tom Brady/Belichick . "Super Bowl winning team" isn't a criteria for being important to relative success. How many superbowls does Dan Marino have?

Zero.

But if you look at the Eagles, Seahawks, Broncos, Ravens, the last few teams besides the Patriots to win it, none of them had a next level talent in the AB category at WR. Maybe Jeffrey or Boldin?

Of course, you could make the argument that Atlanta w Julio Jones should be on that list, but that's a rather painful subject still.

 

[Astcloud11]

Zero.

But if you look at the Eagles, Seahawks, Broncos, Ravens, the last few teams besides the Patriots to win it, none of them had a next level talent in the AB category at WR. Maybe Jeffrey or Boldin?

Of course, you could make the argument that Atlanta w Julio Jones should be on that list, but that's a rather painful subject still.

I think we're arguing the same topic but different point. The way I interpreted his post was;

Any WR could be a good WR if they are fast and can catch. Additionally, it's easy to plug any WR into that slot and they'll have the same impact. I disagree. He said "elite WR's are born, not made"

WR's are coveted based on their skill set. New England doesn't need an AB because they have an accurate QB. Same for Broncos (they won with Peyton), same with Seahawks(They had Lynch and one of the best defenses), and Ravens (defense). Eagles I'll give you, they had a good offense with no stud WR (even though I do consider Jeffery a high quality WR). These receivers like Andre Johnson, AB, Julio Jones, Megatron have a place and a price tag for good reason. They will enhance the offense by making the opposing defense respect an average QB more than they would like to. Big Ben won a ******* super bowl because of Hines Ward + Jerome Bettis, would've won another one with Bell/Brown if they played defense in the playoffs.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

I wasn't agreeing with you lol. The point was that he WASN'T forgotten because elite WR's are elite no matter where they are. Mike Wallace was one of those "just a fast WR that can catch" and HE disappeared.

I know you weren't agreeing with me, but you proved my point. AJ played in 4 (FOUR!!!!) playoff games his entire 14 year career. AB has more TD's than AJ, even though AB has played 5 fewer seasons than Andre did.

Andre is one of my favorite players of all time. He had an excellent NFL career, but he made almost no impact on the success of his team or the league record books because of the team he was on and the players around him. At the end of the day, he will still be a hall of famer.

Had he played with Steve Young, or Tom Brady, or even Ben (can you imagine what he'd be with Deshaun Watson??), he'd be a no-question, unanimous first ballot HOF and considered one of the all-time GOAT's of the sport.

Mike Wallace is also a perfect example of what I am saying. Put him in the right system with the right QB, and he's a stud stat-monster that opposing defenses have to account for. Put him on the Ravens and he nearly disappears completely. The Steelers will be fine without AB. AB may or may not be fine without the Steelers, just depends on where he ends up. Yeah, he'll still be a stud receiver that can catch anything that gets near him, but if he's got Rosier throwing him the ball and Mark Richt calling plays his floor isn't going to be 100 catches 1,300 yards and 10 TD's any more.

 

[Astcloud11]

I know you weren't agreeing with me, but you proved my point. AJ played in 4 (FOUR!!!!) playoff games his entire 14 year career. AB has more TD's than AJ, even though AB has played 5 fewer seasons than Andre did.

Andre is one of my favorite players of all time. He had an excellent NFL career, but he made almost no impact on the success of his team or the league record books because of the team he was on and the players around him. At the end of the day, he will still be a hall of famer.

Had he played with Steve Young, or Tom Brady, or even Ben (can you imagine what he'd be with Deshaun Watson??), he'd be a no-question, unanimous first ballot HOF and considered one of the all-time GOAT's of the sport.

Mike Wallace is also a perfect example of what I am saying. Put him in the right system with the right QB, and he's a stud stat-monster that opposing defenses have to account for. Put him on the Ravens and he nearly disappears completely. The Steelers will be fine without AB. AB may or may not be fine without the Steelers, just depends on where he ends up. Yeah, he'll still be a stud receiver that can catch anything that gets near him, but if he's got Rosier throwing him the ball and Mark Richt calling plays his floor isn't going to be 100 catches 1,300 yards and 10 TD's any more.

May I ask you to rank these QB's in the order you would have them on your team?

Big Ben
Joe Flacco
Cam Newton
Mathew Stafford
Matt Ryan

 

[g8rh8rMD]

May I ask you to rank these QB's in the order you would have them on your team?

Big Ben
Joe Flacco
Cam Newton
Mathew Stafford
Matt Ryan

Oy, that's a tough one. Not a huge fan of any of those guys for varying reasons. Flacco is easy to knock out, but it's tough to say for sure if it's him or the offense since he's seen so much fluctuation over the course of his career. On the average though, he's got far more "meh" years than he does "elite" seasons. I don't like Ben and Cam more for off-field reasons, but they're both pretty dynamic players in their way. Ben has clearly had the best talent and the best offensive system supporting him over the years of any of the names listed.
Ben
Ryan
Cam
Stafford
Flacco

I say all of the above and answer your little quiz knowing full well that you've laid some sort of "trap" for me to fall in to and prove that you are right and I am wrong.

At the end of the day, it's simple historical data that tells us that teams that spend big at the WR position (whether that be draft picks or salary cap, or both) don't win Super Bowls. I'm not an "anti-WR guy", but I will say that the position is overvalued by under-performing teams and fans. Heck, AB is the perfect example of what I'm saying. The guy was drafted in the 6th round as the 22nd WR taken.

 

[gogeta4]

Cooper is WAY younger and nowhere near the head case that AB is. and .

He could be wayyy younger. AB is wayyy better..and ive always like Amari. Was the first to bring him up on this board when he was a junior at MNW

 

[gogeta4]

No doubt Antonio Brown is better than Cooper, but he's 6 years older, he comes with a lot of baggage including a pending charge that could get him suspended, he bytches every time he doesn't get the ball, and his cap hit is >$8M more than Cooper's for 2019 alone.

Plus Dallas simply overpaid for Cooper. I just really would be shocked if Brown also nets a 1st rounder.

I hear you....i can see him maybe fetching a 1st...nothing lower than a 2nd.

 

[jw410]

AB is vasssstly more talented than Mike Wallace but it'll be interesting to see how good he actually is at this point if he goes somewhere with a QB not remotely as good as Roethlisberger. Wallace fell off the face of the Earth when he came down here.

He had a strong year with the Ravens

 

[Astcloud11]

I say all of the above and answer your little quiz knowing full well that you've laid some sort of "trap" for me to fall in to and prove that you are right and I am wrong.

Heck, AB is the perfect example of what I'm saying. The guy was drafted in the 6th round as the 22nd WR taken.

Dont worry, it's a discussion trap not an "I'm right and you're wrong trap ".

Realistically speaking, most teams have a decent QB with a decent OL. All of those QBs I gave you, save Cam, has a respectable offensive line. I just had a follow up question where I'd ask how do you elevate your offense assuming you had your least favored QB? If you are one of these teams, Ravens/Flacco was your choice, how do you manage?

Do you get a budget WR and look to replace your QB through the draft? Are you still against paying what is needed to get a primer WR to help out Flacco since it's pretty hard to find an obtainable QB better than Flacco?

Rhetoric questions as im not trying to write an assessment here. Just simply, do you really think there is 0 situations where the best thing a team can do to improve their offense is to get a top shelf WR?

 

[YLCANE]

Exactly. He was one of the greatest WR’s of all time, and is largely forgotten about and was able to do little to drag his team from mediocrity because he was on a bad team with no QB. It’s a horrible shame what happened with his career, albeit a very nice one. We all know what he could have accomplished if he was paired with Brady, Brees, Peyton, heck, Watson, etc...

Amen
What hurt A Johnson a lot was the fact that they never called his number in red zone
Julio is today’s AJ

Both should be in HOF

 

[Kempo Cane]

As a Steelers fan, I used to think those throwing around the notion of only getting a 2nd round pick and maybe a serviceable starter on D would be highway robbery against my team but now I think we'll be lucky to get 3rd round pick alone.

As a Steeler fan I feel ur pain bro.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Dont worry, it's a discussion trap not an "I'm right and you're wrong trap ".

Realistically speaking, most teams have a decent QB with a decent OL. All of those QBs I gave you, save Cam, has a respectable offensive line. I just had a follow up question where I'd ask how do you elevate your offense assuming you had your least favored QB? If you are one of these teams, Ravens/Flacco was your choice, how do you manage?

Do you get a budget WR and look to replace your QB through the draft? Are you still against paying what is needed to get a primer WR to help out Flacco since it's pretty hard to find an obtainable QB better than Flacco?

Rhetoric questions as im not trying to write an assessment here. Just simply, do you really think there is 0 situations where the best thing a team can do to improve their offense is to get a top shelf WR?

Got ya man. No, I don’t think that there are 0 situations. Moss took the Pats to a new stratosphere. Then again, they got him at a steep discount.

There’s no right/wrong answer here. But I don’t think AB would suddenly make Flacco/Ravens a dynamic offense. The answer for Flacco is the 2000 Ravens approach, great defense, good running game, game manager QB/passing game. I wouldn’t want to pair AB with a Lamar Jackson either, too many bad habits encouraging him to force the ball.

Right now, I don’t see a team out there that AB would put “over the top”, but he would sell tickets for a desperate team. Will be interesting to watch, no matter what.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Amen
What hurt A Johnson a lot was the fact that they never called his number in red zone
Julio is today’s AJ

Both should be in HOF

To be fair, Julio has had MUCH better QB than AJ ever did.

 

[YLCANE]

To be fair, Julio has had MUCH better QB than AJ ever did.

Absolutely agree
AJ would have been the BEST in league if he switched spots w R Wayne or Harrison

 

[caneforlifeforreal]

.

 

[g8rh8rMD]

Absolutely agree
AJ would have been the BEST in league if he switched spots w R Wayne or Harrison

Andre was a team player, quiet and unselfish. He always signed early and I don’t think ever maximized the amount of money he could have gotten. Just imagine if he’d spent his career playing with Brady.

 

[YLCANE]

Andre was a team player, quiet and unselfish. He always signed early and I don’t think ever maximized the amount of money he could have gotten. Just imagine if he’d spent his career playing with Brady.

Agree
Just went about his business
Was not a diva about getting the ball
Just went out and put up 100 every **** week

 

[Fawk_U Haters]

Agree
Just went about his business
Was not a diva about getting the ball
Just went out and put up 100 every **** week

And he walloped on Cortland Finnigen...although later reading about Cortland he was an alright person tho

 

[BentSteelCane]

Too much money for too much *****mode. Nobody wants to pay for that attitude. No Indy - no!!!!!

 

[brock]

Proven playmaker but he’s all about himself and his stats that’s for sure