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OT: Was Kobe the most competitive player in league history?

The Svengali said:
I disagree with your take fully and completely. Even pros call him a pros “pro” and here is the difference. Kobe spoke about the Mamba mentality and was able decompose many tenants of his approach at length, with incredible depth, fluency and sophistication.

He could distill it down for kids, the average joe or athletes or tune it way up for businessman. I’ve seen this guy do it, and that’s an incredible skill/gift.

It wasn’t just “uhhh, stay focused, play through pain, and work harder than anyone”, like other athletes
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Bird, Magic, Jordan and other greats from other sports did the same thing without giving it catchy name. Peyton Manning could have called his preperation, drive and will the Omaha Way but he did need to. Bird would show up hours before the game and shoot and after practice would continue to run or shoot for hours without calling it the Legend way. Mamba mentality is nothing new to sports Kobe always needed the attention to be on him. Unlike many Superstars where the media usually coins a nickname for players Kobe gave himself his own. The only thing Kobe was better at was stroking his own ego.
 
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Hurracanes said:
Agreed. The stories you hear about MJ are borderline disturbing or insane. That being said, it’s what made him the GOAT.
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Most definitely. Regarding Bird, I remember reading that for their home games, guys on opposing teams would see him running in the bleachers by himself in circles before the game while they practiced. lol. A total psycho. Terrell Brandon actually mentions it on video but I remember hearing it elsewhere, too.
 
Ethnicsands said:
He was the perfect C for the current era because of mobility, speed, fluidity, touch and post moves

Those Phi Slamma Jamma teams were awesome to watch

Duncan was taller, and different. Cannot criticize him st all. But Hakeem wanted the rock when the chips were down. One of the goats.

Easily better than Charles. Barkley was a marvel, but is overrated as a player because of his personality and celebrity.
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I don’t think Chuck is overstated as much as he is more famous than guys who were better them.

He was special though. Played power forward with shooting guard height and led the Suns to the Finals against strong teams in the west.
 
BILL RUSSELL had more competitiveness in his little toe's toenail.....than Kobe or his contemporaries ever had

And FAR more Championships. NO CONTEST
 
CaneSince4Ever said:
Correction, without Red Auerbach Johnson & Parish wouldn't be HOFers, Johnson & Parish were already Made Men before Auerbach swung those deals to acquire them...Bird had nothing to do with that.

And LOL, LMAO, BOL, ROFLMAO, & LMFAO at using steals as the only metric to judge defensive prowess.
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That is a load of crap.

Robert Parish played 4 seasons for the Warriors before being traded to the Celtics.

He started ONE game as a rookie. He started less than half of the games in his second season. Parish did not become a full-time starter until his third year at Golden State, and he only was there for 4 years.

So your argument is that Robert Parish was a "Made Man" in his 2 full seasons as a starter with Golden State (and his 2 seasons as a non-starter). That "Red Auerbach" gets "all the credit" for trading for a guy who was a 2-year starter on a sub-.500 team. And that playing with Larry Bird had no impact on Parish, even though for 7 of the next 9 years, his scoring average beat anything that he ever did at Golden State.

Riiiight.

As for DJ, he was very good at Seattle and Phoenix, but it was his time with Boston that made him a Hall of Famer. He played PG for Boston, not SG like he did at Seattle/Phoenix. So while DJ had more seasons than Parish, and more prior success, he came to Boston and played a new position, and it was largely his time at Boston that earned him the HOF.
 
The Guitar Dude said:
Kobe is definitely one of the most competitive athletes/people ever but we are arguing something that is immeasurable. I love Some of the old school basketball players and think MJ is also the best or one of the best ever but with all due respect the competition at that time (aside from the Birds or Magic’s) was not on the same level of competition that Kobe or LeBron have played against. Simply put athletes now are bigger, stronger, faster and more athletic. I’m not saying that makes Kobe better I’m just saying it’s something to consider. As people get older they have a hard time accepting that who or what they thought was the best can be surpassed. (Like people who genuinely believe that in his prime Mike Tyson wouldn’t beat a Muhammad Ali or that some 70’s/ 80’s football team would somehow not get stomped by a modern day one) we should stop calling people the best ever and just accept that they were the best of their time/era. I’m so grateful to have watched him play and have been a lifelong laker fan. He was most certainly more than just special. He was amazing and his haters can suck a fat one.

2 of the GOATSView attachment 110519
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Nobody denies that training methods have changed.

But we are not comparing a 1980 apple to a 2010 orange.

We are saying that the accomplishments of Jim Brown or Bill Russell were still DOMINANT in their eras, when nobody had the advantage of modern training methods.

Now, if you put Bill Russell up against Shaq, maybe Shaq would win out due to the strength advantage.

But if you are talking about "competitiveness" (which the original poster was), you are looking at the makeup of a person, not their heights/weights/bench presses.
 
Ethnicsands said:
He was the perfect C for the current era because of mobility, speed, fluidity, touch and post moves

Those Phi Slamma Jamma teams were awesome to watch

Duncan was taller, and different. Cannot criticize him st all. But Hakeem wanted the rock when the chips were down. One of the goats.

Easily better than Charles. Barkley was a marvel, but is overrated as a player because of his personality and celebrity.
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Not to split hairs but weren't Dream and Tim D both 6-10?
 
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CaneSince4Ever said:
Easy to have a killer instinct when you're part of one of the greatest front courts to play the game, a front court that Red put together.
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This is just a ridiculous take. People like to judge the FINAL product as if it existed on Day 1.

People forget that McHale was a SIXTH MAN when he joined the Celtics.

1980-81 - ONE game started (82 games played)
1981-82 - 33 games started (82 games played)
1982-83 - 13 games started (82 games played)
1983-84 - 10 games started (82 games played)
1984-85 - 31 games started (79 games played)

What, did you forget about the entire existence of Cedric Maxwell?

And, as I pointed out earlier, Robert Parish had only been a full-time starter for TWO YEARS on terrible Golden State teams.

Auerbach may have traded for Parish and drafted McHale, but Bird is the one who turned them both into Hall of Famers. Auerbach was busy sitting in the rafters smoking cigars.
 
HamburgerSV said:
How was Barkley overrated? He has an MVP trophy and would have two more if it wasn’t for the GOAT, has insane advanced stats and yet no one puts him in their top 20.
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I think you meant to quote someone else but yeah, I kind of agree. For a 6'4 guy to do what he did is amazing/
 
RemainMack said:
I always laugh when people compare Draymond Green to Barkley. Barkley would obliterate that bag of crap. He was an athletic freak, a competitive monster, and skilled as ****.
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Agree 100%. Barkley was an animal. Ain't nobody like Green gonna check him. lmao
 
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AUcane said:
Not to split hairs but weren't Dream and Tim D both 6-10?
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They’re so different as players. I think Duncan had an inch on Hakeem but going on memory not listed height. But Duncan was a PF. Hakeem a mobile C who could also play outside.
 
The only reason Kobe rose to the top is because Ed Reed chose to play football.
 
All I know is that you can't spell competitive without "Koncak".

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What's lost in the Olajuwon discussion is that Pat Ewing would have been the number 1 pick in the 1984 nba draft had he declared early. For the naysayers - Ewing was considered the best college center since Lew Alcindor. The draft lottery was established because of him. Obviously Olajuwon became the better pro
 
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