OT: Was Kobe the most competitive player in league history?

[Ethnicsands]

Jordan's competitiveness is the stuff of legends. He wanted to win at everything and hated losing, whether he was golfing or playing cards with teammates. Christian Laettner told a story of him beating MJ at ping pong when they played together on the '92 Dream Team. He found out years later that after he beat MJ that day, MJ requested a ping pong table be set up in his room and spent all night practicing.

MJ was the most intense competitor ever. Maybe Dan Gable gets second billing.

MJ is hampered as a person because of his insane competitiveness. Kobe was a nicer, better person, I expect. MJ was the goat competitor.

 

[Andrew]

Al Bundy

 

[Andrew]

John Smoltz

 

[TemplarCane]

I get the love and respect for Kobe (I live in LA) but the question is unanswerable. How would you measure the competitiveness of Jordan, Kobe, or any number of other players?

 

[cane_boi]

MJ was the most intense competitor ever. Maybe Dan Gable gets second billing.

MJ is hampered as a person because of his insane competitiveness. Kobe was a nicer, better person, I expect. MJ was the goat competitor.

From all accounts it sounded like Kobe was a much more pleasant person to be around. Always signed autographs for kids and fans. Aside from his escapade in Colorado, he seemed like a very loving husband and even when there were divorce rumors he and his wife worked it out. He also seemed to be an amazing father.

 

[Tcane58]

Hassan Whiteside.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

MJ is #1

And and you need to know is most former and current NBA players rank Kobe over LeBron. And this was waaaaaaay before Kobe’s death. And it’s especially hard to find anyone that played with both Kobe and LeBron that has LeBron ranked higher than Kobe.

I don’t even have LeBron in my top 5. I have him ranked 6

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. Magic
4. Kareem
5a. Hakeem / 5b. Shaq

Lol just stop it with the Kobe in the top 5 stuff. He was top 15 maybe but that’s it.
Shaq carried him to 3 titles and then he kicked Shaq out of LA.

 

[TruCane81]

Just a basketball question while were at it.

Do you feel the Joradn, Magic, Bird era was more of a dominant Defensive era.

It seems now the NBA is all about offense with very little D. Am I wrong to think this?

Game was WAY more physical.

Style of play difference makes it hard to compare. Perimeter defenders are longer and more athletic now.

4s and 5s are more athletic now overall, but shorter. The league was stacked with 7 footers as rim protectors with no defensive three seconds back in the 80s and 90s. Many of those type guys don’t make it now because of the more fast paced, perimeter oriented style required of big men.

With zone defense allowed now, shooting 4s and 5s allow you to spread the floor and open up the lane. You couldn’t play zone or double from the weak side back then, though.

The rules changes and heavy emphasis on pick and roll allows smaller guards to get to the rim without getting cracked like they used to in the past. Routine fouls from back then would get you ejected now.

 

[The Svengali]

Lol just stop it with the Kobe in the top 5 stuff. He was top 15 maybe but that’s it.
Shaq carried him to 3 titles and then he kicked Shaq out of LA.

I hated Kobe but he’s top 5, easily, in my book. I have him in my top 3, but at worst top 5 (Dream, Magic, Kareem...can all move between 2, 3, 4 on my list depending on what I ate that day)

That said, top 5 is a hard list to crack into so I can see him not jumping into that grouping for Some folks and slipping to say, top 7-8 all time. But top 15 is just crazy talk, Harry. C’mon now

 

[TruCane81]

You mean a Hall of Fame championship PG who consistently leads the league in charges taken, defends 1-4 in switching schemes and does all the little things on both ends (evidenced by his always high RPM rank) isn't an elite competitor?

It's amazing how many NBA "fans" are still stuck in the 1990s model of evaluating players. You guys love your counting stats. And of course it's the same dudes who tout tackle statistics to judge and compare defensive players...

People sleep on Lowry because he disappeared offensively at important times for the Raptors.

He is very underrated. Kawhi is the man, but he didn’t win the title by himself.

 

[TruCane81]

No. MJ was. That’s where Kobe developed it from. How was he limited athletically when he won the dunk contest? Did u watch his highlights? There’s no way u can say he was limited athletically. But everyone has their own opinion

Kobe played for 20 years. People forget how viciously he attacked the rim as a whippersnapper.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

I hated Kobe but he’s top 5, easily, in my book. I have him in my top 3, but at worst top 5 (Dream, Magic, Kareem...can all move between 2, 3, 4 on my list depending on what I ate that day)

That said, top 5 is a hard list to crack into so I can see him not jumping into that grouping for Some folks and slipping to say, top 7-8 all time. But top 15 is just crazy talk, Harry. C’mon now

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. BRON
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. BIRD
7. Russell
8. Duncan

Guess I can’t put anyone else above him for now

 

[Empirical Cane]

This is precisely what it's like talking about sports with my son (not a compliment).

Let me guess you've got Patrick Mahomes ahead of Tom Brady?

Flavor of day vs historical context.

 

[afan]

Michael Jordan, Allen Iverson, Kobe Bryant, Charles Barkley are some of the most competitive when they played. Allen Iverson was known for driving to the basket with all the power forwards, and centers clogging the lane.. I would say for the seven-foot players Kareem Abdul-Jabbar for the historically great players with his signature sky hook helping him be the all time points leader;

Larry Johnson who the Charlotte Hornets drafted number-1 was a "Athletic / freak" given he was 6 feet 6 inches, and weighed 250 pounds of muscle; He was in the nba dunk contest as well, besides the fact he the ability on the floor to be considered the best college basketball player his last season at UNLV. LJ became better known for his seasons with the Knicks after he suffered a back injury, which forced him to develop a more all around game; His clutch three point shots became his signature.

The Knicks had their best years back before y2k sadly; Charlie Ward, Chris Childs, Allen Houston, Latrell Sprewell, Larry Johnson, Marcus Camby, Kurt Thomas, Patrick Ewing = New York Knick teams any nba fan could appreciate. Besides those small Heat & Knicks scuffles; Chris Childs got as Shannon Sharpe stated "The man hit 'you' with a three piece extra crispy..." In his own words at the 2 minute mark



One could argue though who ever had to defend - Shaquille O'Neal.. Especially when the zebras let him throw his elbows and forearms at the other centers.

Ben Wallace when the Pistons played the Lakers in the finals had the best stats guarding Shaq, which was a huge season the Pistons won that series; He was shorter then Shaq enough to use leverage to as well, also he was built like a tank compared to like Shawn Bradley who was the number-2 overall pick. Left him open to that Shaq-Fu though.

 

[The Svengali]

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. BRON
4. Magic
5. Wilt
6. BIRD
7. Russell
8. Duncan

Guess I can’t put anyone else above him for now

I don’t hate your list. I think it’s well thought out except for Bron. He is waaaaaay too high; there is no list I’ll have Bron over Kobe. And I’d put Shaq ahead of Russell or Bird. Shaq was the baddest man on the planet and could dominate ANY era so he’s GOT to be top 5. Plus he played mean!

Bron doesn’t play with enough passion nor is he a clutch type player (you don’t want him taking the last shot) so that alone keeps him out of the top 5.

 

[afan]

I don’t hate your list. I think it’s well thought out except for Bron. He is waaaaaay too high; there is no list I’ll have Bron over Kobe. And I’d put Shaq ahead of Russell or Bird

Bron doesn’t play with enough passion nor is he a clutch type player (you don’t want him taking the last shot) so that alone keeps him out of the top 5.

LeBron James was always known more of as point-forward though, which is why the media always compares him to Magic Johnson; It was always since before he was drafted and still to this day that always state he can never compete with Jordan. LeBron always tried getting other players involved, its just the way he learned how to play.. With the poor roster moves before he signed with the Heat, too many fans just looked the jersey number and their natural athleticism; The same reason all the water boy / fans want him in the dunk contest.

If anything Dwayne Wade had a more similar playing style with Michael Jordan & Kobe Bryant.. And comparing Shaquille O'Neal, one of the most athletic seven footers to ever step foot on any basketball court to Bill Russell who doesn't ever think of his own nba career as one of the best is foolish. There's a reason why every well versed basketball historians and players say its unfair to compare the seven footers and the other positions.

Shaq is only the second most athletic center though; Wilt Chamberlain one could argue is one of the most athletic athletes ever regardless of the game.. In college while attending Kansas. Ran a sub-eleven second 100 meter dash, 49 second / 400meter dash in baggy sweats, which I guess is good for his size.

 

[Thommy30w]

I get the love and respect for Kobe (I live in LA) but the question is unanswerable. How would you measure the competitiveness of Jordan, Kobe, or any number of other players?

I think Kobe was the greatest at branding competitiveness. He created a great brand out of it.

 

[CaneSince4Ever]

People sleep on Lowry because he disappeared offensively at important times for the Raptors.

He is very underrated. Kawhi is the man, but he didn’t win the title by himself.

Siakam dawg, some nights He was there best player.

 

[TruCane81]

Siakam dawg, some nights He was there best player.

That boy BAD!

Still young as ****, too.

 

[HarryCarayisGoat]

I don’t hate your list. I think it’s well thought out except for Bron. He is waaaaaay too high; there is no list I’ll have Bron over Kobe. And I’d put Shaq ahead of Russell or Bird. Shaq was the baddest man on the planet and could dominate ANY era so he’s GOT to be top 5. Plus he played mean!

Bron doesn’t play with enough passion nor is he a clutch type player (you don’t want him taking the last shot) so that alone keeps him out of the top 5.

Where do you have BIRD?