OT: Spencer Jones

AtlAtty

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Is the guy doing the filming risking any punishment as well? Doing any kind of recording in a bathroom / locker room type area is not exactly kosher, especially if the urinal dudes didn't consent
Great question. If in filming he displayed someone who was exposed then yes he would absolutely be in trouble for disseminating.
 

TRick72

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10599166-C773-4492-A3EC-5AB3512D3E1D.jpeg
 

AtlAtty

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please excuse my laymans terms here but is there some deal where two dudes mutually enter into the fight and nobody gets charged?
There is a defense literally called “mutual combat” in which a defendant can argue that the combatants willing entered into the fight and therefore the defendant was not the aggressor. Basic argument is that you can’t claim to be a victim if you intentionally engaged in the conduct. The limitation on the defense, however, can be if the accused escalated the combat. Think of person A initiating a fistfight but person B ends it with a gun. It was “mutual combat” as to a fistfight, but not with a gun.
 

AtlAtty

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Respect to your knowledge, friend, but they'd have to be fools to charge that dude. Any half decent defense attorney would be drooling over this case. In the heat of the moment, you don't have the time to respond in kind. Those guys knew they were escalating a situation and what the potential ramifications of their actions would be.

They wouldn't make sympathetic complainants at all starting shyt at a bar. There's always a real world component to every case, and when juries are involved, you need a compelling and sympathetic story. And a couple meatheads starting shyt at a bar and then getting tuned up isn't sympathetic or compelling.
You are talking about winning a jury trial, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. But the police are often forced to make an arrest when something is done so publicly (which the video creates). The MMA guy has a very defensible position but he may have to defend himself, especsilly if Jones wants to sue for the damage to his eye. A criminal charge, or even just an arrest, can help increase the value of a civil suit.
I don’t know if there will be a civil suit but I think RVA wrote that Jones is suing.
 

AtlAtty

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Buddy who won the fight looked like he had a bloody nose when the video started, seems to me there’s a case he was attacked in the bathroom and felt cornered because he got hit, didn’t respond, felt threatened, got pushed again, and beat his ass in self defense.
Yep. The only issue will be escalation. Did the MMA guy take the fight to the next level and beyond self defense.
Frankly, I would expect someone on a jury (if it gets that far) to say, don’t start the fight and you won’t get your ass beat.
 

Uom2001

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I am on the side of the mma dude but it’s crazy (maybe not) how many aren’t on Twitter. There’s a lot of footage before and after that hasn’t been seen for the lawyers.
 

dycane

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My dad was an Army Ranger, like 5-8, 170 and he was a dude I saw hurt people in fights. He told me early on, if the dude has cauliflower, just say, "my bad" and leave it be. Win or lose, fighting them won't be fun.
I know a guy who made a fortune supplying fuel to the military in the ME. His private security guys were all short, inconspicuous, blend-into-the-crowd white guys. They looked more like accountants than killers. And they were the best money can buy.
 

Lance Roffers

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I represented a guy who made a fortune supplying fuel to the military in the ME. His private security guys were all short, inconspicuous, blend-into-the-crowd white guys. They looked more like accountants than killers. And they were the best money can buy.
Almost every special ops guys are short and wiry. Supposedly a stamina thing, those guys can run all day, strong, skilled.

Dad was 101st Airborne, so he was crazy. He was out of it by the time I came along though and he didn't tell stories.
 

Uom2001

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Almost every special ops guys are short and wiry. Supposedly a stamina thing, those guys can run all day, strong, skilled.

Dad was 101st Airborne, so he was crazy. He was out of it by the time I came along though and he didn't tell stories.
I think I missed my calling. Nah but I agree with you about the wiry and low to the ground stuff. Where the lack of stature hurts there are other elements...
 
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Bottom line is, getting into a fight nowadays, especially at a bar, is like playing Russian roulette.

Wisdom would dictate that when not knowing the background of who you’re dealing with, restraint is usually the best course of action, unless having to defend yourself or family/friends from a physical/violent attack.

One of my good buddies used to be Secret Service detail for the Obama’s. I never knew it until one of our mutual friends told me one day. He is the most down to earth, chilled dude, so you would never guess that he’s a trained killer.

I asked him about it one day, and he nonchalantly told me that it was no big deal. He doesn’t look like he could hurt a fly. But as the saying goes, don’t judge a book by its cover.
 

TerragonSix

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Don't antagonize a guy. Hopefully the MMA guy doesn't get reamed over in court. I can't tell you how many times I've seen in a bar or on the job as a medic where the antagonizer got absolutely mauled, he was trying to big dog the other guy, and the guy just wanted to be left alone. Leave strangers alone; you have no idea who they are or what they'll do.

I met a few guys that would be considered elite combat forces. Agreed with above that they are typical non-descript guys you would've had no idea that they were doing that sort of thing unless they told you (and they wouldn't). One of my favorites was a guy that was a tunnel rat in 'Nam. Didn't even have a .45 when he went in; he typically carried a .22 that had a jury-rigged suppressor on it (I want to say it was a cut down angle flashlight stuffed with steel wool or something like that.), a flashlight, and a knife. He was absolutely hilarious to hang around with because he did not give one tinkers' damn.
 

The Franchise

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You are talking about winning a jury trial, and I wholeheartedly agree with you. But the police are often forced to make an arrest when something is done so publicly (which the video creates). The MMA guy has a very defensible position but he may have to defend himself, especsilly if Jones wants to sue for the damage to his eye. A criminal charge, or even just an arrest, can help increase the value of a civil suit.
I don’t know if there will be a civil suit but I think RVA wrote that Jones is suing.
There’s no viable civil suit for losing a fight. This guy was an active participant throughout even continuing to struggle till the end of the video. Had he clearly submitted at any point then maybe there would be something viable after the clear submission.

People can try to sue for anything, but that means nothing. Same thing with an arrest. They might arrest the guy who won the fight, but I doubt it would go farther than that. Anyone with a lick of common sense sees that video and doesn’t see MMA guy picking on anyone or starting trouble. Now if they want to arrest all the participants for drunk and disorderly or endangering others, then that might be viable.
 

MovingZen

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There is a defense literally called “mutual combat” in which a defendant can argue that the combatants willing entered into the fight and therefore the defendant was not the aggressor. Basic argument is that you can’t claim to be a victim if you intentionally engaged in the conduct. The limitation on the defense, however, can be if the accused escalated the combat. Think of person A initiating a fistfight but person B ends it with a gun. It was “mutual combat” as to a fistfight, but not with a gun.
Thanks man, that's what I was thinking of and had heard used before. If I were the ufc dude, that's the defense I would use. imo, which obviously isn't legal at all, those boys knowingly engaged in that fight. If you don't want the smoke, don't light the fire.
 
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