OT: Mass Shooting at Douglas High School

[Zbrod95]

You must be new to internet debate...or assume that I am. Attacking me for rightly pillorying your remedial thinking is the first step in the playbook.

The second step is selectively editing...which you just did to the previous post. I’d say try again...but, please, don’t.

Because I add something that you don’t bother to include? Save it dude...

 

[Mcanes305]

There is no legitimate reason for any citizen to own an AR-15. Back when the 2nd Amendment was promulgated, oh, 227 years ago, the only "arms" available were single shot muskets, not automatic weapons. If you truly think our founding fathers contemplated allowing automatic weapons in the hand of every ******* in the country, you're clueless.

This weak argument.......if there was a revolution or civil war today, would it be fought with muskets? The population owned the same grade weapons as the military. If they had AR-15's then im pretty positive the found fathers would have been armed with them as well as the population. Dont forget these were people who just fought a massive government for freedom and won. Their biggest fear was the government.

Im not for or against increased gun control/ban. I think there is an underlying issue no one wants to talk about. The poster who talked about England conveniently failed to bring up their knife problem....another poster made the most salient point.....if guns were the issue why is it only happening here in the US and why only in the last 15years or so. What changed?

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

Because I add something that you don’t bother to include? Save it dude...

That’s another lie. Not only have you not added anything, to either our discussion or the thread as a whole, you’ve tried to PURPOSELY push false information.

You said murder rates and mass murder was twice as much in England and Germany. It isn’t.
You said he was a Democrat. He likely isn’t.
You said he was liberal. Again, he likely isn’t.
You said he was antifa. One more time, he likely isn’t.
You said he illegally bought the gun. Growing tiresome, he likely didn’t

But,

He does parrot racist views. According to his social media and first person accounts.
He has shown support for Trump. I have no idea if he’s a Trump supporter.
He did kill kids. They’re dead.

You’re an apologist.

 

[canesplaymaker]

This weak argument.......if there was a revolution or civil war today, would it be fought with muskets? The population owned the same grade weapons as the military. If they had AR-15's then im pretty positive the found fathers would have been armed with them as well as the population. Dont forget these were people who just fought a massive government for freedom and won. Their biggest fear was the government.

Im not for or against increased gun control/ban. I think there is an underlying issue no one wants to talk about. The poster who talked about England conveniently failed to bring up their knife problem....another poster made the most salient point.....if guns were the issue why is it only happening here in the US and why only in the last 15years or so. What changed?

It's very hard to kill 17 people with a knife.

 

[Mcanes305]

1300 kids die a year in the US to gun violence. Total waste of money right. Better spent on maga hats imo.

Using your logic, cars are a bigger problem and we should ban all cars and start a massive database where we collect all information on everyone who intends to drive.

Annual United States Road Crash Statistics

• Over 37,000 people die in road crashes each year
• An additional 2.35 million are injured or disabled
• Over 1,600 children under 15 years of age die each year
• Nearly 8,000 people are killed in crashes involving drivers ages 16-20
• Road crashes cost the U.S. $230.6 billion per year, or an average of $820 per person
• Road crashes are the single greatest annual cause of death of healthy U.S. citizens traveling abroad

 

[Zbrod95]

That’s another lie. Not only have you not added anything, to either our discussion or the thread as a whole, you’ve tried to PURPOSELY push false information.

You said murder rates and mass murder was twice as much in England and Germany. It isn’t.
You said he was a Democrat. He likely isn’t.
You said he was liberal. Again, he likely isn’t.
You said he was antifa. One more time, he likely isn’t.
You said he illegally bought the gun. Growing tiresome, he likely didn’t

But,

He does parrot racist views. According to his social media and first person accounts.
He has shown support for Trump. I have no idea if he’s a Trump supporter.
He did kill kids. They’re dead.

You’re an apologist.

Never said he was Antifa, I said I’d be willing to bet he was and I don’t think anyone here is going to argue that Germany and England face more mass casualty events than we do.

 

[Zbrod95]

It's very hard to kill 17 people with a knife.

Pretty easy with a homemade bomb or a car though. They kinda do it all the time in other parts of the world.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

Using your logic, cars are a bigger problem and we should ban all cars and start a massive database where we collect all information on everyone who intends to drive.

And...

- Car owners have to be licensed (though some don’t)
- Cars have to be registered.
- there is a chain of title (though easily occluded)
- Drivers must have insurance (though some don’t)
- yup, there’s a database.

Admittedly, deaths could be reduced dramatically by putting governers on cars that limited speeds over 15mph, but the trade off between taking a week to get to work and more deaths has been made.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

Never said he was Antifa, I said I’d be willing to bet he was and I don’t think anyone here is going to argue that Germany and England face more mass casualty events than we do.

That’s even more irresponsible! It’s still you pushing nonsensical internet theories based upon your political views. You pushed a false narrative about his politics and motivations and you’re yet to say, my bad. That’s classless and shows low-character.

Challenge: Please show where England and Germany have more mass casualty events and I’ll say, “my bad, I was wrong”.

 

[Unsider]

This weak argument.......if there was a revolution or civil war today, would it be fought with muskets? The population owned the same grade weapons as the military. If they had AR-15's then im pretty positive the found fathers would have been armed with them as well as the population. Dont forget these were people who just fought a massive government for freedom and won. Their biggest fear was the government.

Im not for or against increased gun control/ban. I think there is an underlying issue no one wants to talk about. The poster who talked about England conveniently failed to bring up their knife problem....another poster made the most salient point.....if guns were the issue why is it only happening here in the US and why only in the last 15years or so. What changed?

I don’t pretend to have the answers, but let’s look at some points that coincide with this trend:

Guns available like candy lately. The 2nd amendment is thrown around in our faces like it’s the only amendment. If one questions it, they’re “Unpatriotic.”

Glorification of guns and bloodshed by Hollywood.

Glorification of guns and bloodshed by video games.

Defunding of education over decades. Population/class sizes ever-increasing, but budget kept stagnant, resulting in neglect and dropouts.

The tech revolution misplacing workers, high unemployment a decade ago.

9-11 attacks made us feel more vulnerable than usual, gun sales went up. This “Us against them” undercurrent has fed our insecurities. Therefore the need to arm ourselves.

The election of our first black president drove some of us nuts, we started hoarding guns and ammo.

The fear that immigrants are changing the fabric of our society and culture, therefore the need to arm ourselves.

Our politicians getting elected to serve themselves and their cronies, neglecting the people and their wellbeing.

There maybe more, but there’s a lot to think about with the points above. It may be none of the above. But it’s worth exploring the dynamics.

 

[L A M P]

It's very hard to kill 17 people with a knife.

What about a car? It's really not that hard people. Time to deal with the elephant in the room.

Spoiler

It's not guns.

 

[TpaBayFlyFisher]

WE should immediately pass a law that makes it illegal to hurt people. We could also have a second law that says if you kill them you get punished more. Hey we could also pass a law that says you can't take a gun to ANY school whether you hurt someone or not. THAT WOULD CERTAINLY STOP THIS BS!!!!!*






*For those casual readers the above is sarcastic in that it suggests that the "simple" "reasonable" solutions offered by politicians are a waste of time. For the entire history of human-kind some have hurt others. Whether they used rocks, knives, hammers, or muskets they have all acted against social norms. In addition, after societies formed governments, everyone has passed prohibitions against harming others, yet those laws have been ineffective. Even where the penalty is death of the criminal, some will still harm others. As long some will harm others, they will find weapons to help them-such as cars and trucks by ISIS. Guns have existed for well over 100 years and will continue to exist even if banned-see France where dozens were shot in an illegal shooting. The problem is the people. Bad people do bad things. I have taught my children to lessen the risk of encountering bad people by not frequenting locations that they favor and to be prepared to defend themselves.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

1) I was working South Broward yesterday so I was nowhere near to responding unless the injured went up to FLL airport level.

2) You guys are hilarious. You guys have no idea that the FBI/CSPD were warned about this, you guys have no idea the kid was a **** ton of psych problems and was sent to a specific psychiatric school, you guys have no idea that this kid was a communist and a registered Democrat who hated America, you guys have no idea that he didn’t even live with a parent because his mom died in November(very common trigger point) and was living with “foster” parents(only in parenthesis because he’s 19). Stop blaming a inanimate object in a gun for negligence to deal with a problem because we refuse to treat it. How much do you guys wanna beat he was apart of Antifa? It’ll explain how a 19 y/o got an AR -15. Anti-gun nuts just a little FYI, an AR-15 has the same fire rate as your average pistol because it’s semi automatic and I believe it only has a 20 round magazine...he would’ve been able to do the same amount damage with a pistol that he did with an AR-15. Please don’t come at me with “it’s an assault rifle” because an assault rifle doesn’t exist. Assault is an action...a verb, not a type of rifle.

Hahahahhahahhahahaha, yea no. The problem is the lack of psychological help and not acting on threats...it’s guys like you crying about guns instead of making sure these guys get help and aren’t so easily cleared.

I’m not going to sit here and have a ****ing match with you about society with a guy who sits at home and doesn’t respond to any kind of emergency call. I’m not going to sit here to talk to an idiot who doesn’t understand the chemical change that goes into a guy that’s wants to commit an MCI or not...and it doesn’t even need to be associated psychiatric issue. It doesn’t matter if there’s a handgun involved or not...if they’re motivated enough then they’ll find a way.

you edited this post AFTER I responded, so I’m amending my response:

Not going to sit here and have a ****ing match...? YOU CAN’T. You’ve lost. Every one of your lies has been exposed. Of course you’d WANT to bow out, and should, it’s only your internet self-esteem that’s stopping you. You respond to emergency calls because THAT’S THE JOB YOU’VE CHOSEN, or managed to get. Other’s have jobs that allow them to respond from ANYWHERE, less beholden to a clock. It is what it is. I’m not going to employment shame you...

But, the only idiot in the thread has unfortunately been you. I’ve given you every opportunity to correct your retrograde views, but you can’t; too much of your identity is tied up in this topic. Which wouldn’t be that bad, if only you wouldn’t lie and pull information out of thin air.

 

[77cane]

Today it is likely if you go to A movie gun violence is involved.
Watch at TV drama ..Gun Violence
Most popular video games...Gun Violence
It's permeates the music industry.
It's not the NRA, it's the Popular Culture.
When You glorify violence and pump this cultural sewage into impressionable young minds we shouldn't be shocked when tragedy is the end result.

The U.S. Army has had to change and toughen their training because of the problem and attitudes of today's youth entering the Army.

Teachers are quitting their jobs in record numbers because of the disrespect they receive in the classroom, that being exasperated because school districts tie their hands and look the other way.

Just keep on spreading the gospel of social tolerance for every weird *** behavior, and in a generation we won't have a country.

 

[Mcanes305]

And...

- Car owners have to be licensed (though some don’t)
- Cars have to be registered.
- their is a chain of title (though easily occluded)
- Drivers must have insurance (though some don’t)
- yup, there’s a database.

Admittedly, deaths could be reduced dramatically by putting governers on cars that limited speeds over 15mph, but the trade off between taking a week to get to work and more deaths has been made.

Yes, my point exactly. We have all that in place for cars and we still have alot of casualties. And not coincidentally, at a higher rate with younger men, same as these shootings. Im sure a good amount of people in the board lost friends to auto accidents during their teens years and NOT ONCE did anyone ever think the solution was to ban cars. We monitor these young men closer (they get pulled over more), we provide counseling (defensive driving course) we do what we can to save them and help them, we dont ban all cars. Are you able to follow the logic now? Theres something wrong with these kids, we ban guns , that something is still there.

unless your argument is you're fine with the casualty numbers as long as the tool is being monitored by the government?

 

[CFLCane]

Using your logic, cars are a bigger problem and we should ban all cars and start a massive database where we collect all information on everyone who intends to drive.

You need a license, registration, training, and insurance to drive car. You dont need any of that for a gun. Dont be foolish. Yoire like the 100 millionth idiot to use that dumb analogy. Unsubscribe from your NRA newsletter its rotting your mind and soul.

 

[CFLCane]

Pretty easy with a homemade bomb or a car though. They kinda do it all the time in other parts of the world.

lol your desperate now

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

Today it is likely if you go to A movie gun violence is involved.
Watch at TV drama ..Gun Violence
Most popular video games...Gun Violence
It's permeates the music industry.
It's not the NRA, it's the Popular Culture.
When You glorify violence and pump this cultural sewage into impressionable young minds we shouldn't be shocked when tragedy is the end result.

The U.S. Army has had to change and toughen their training because of the problem and attitudes of today's youth entering the Army.

Teachers are quitting their jobs in record numbers because of the disrespect they receive in the classroom, that being exasperated because school districts tie their hands and look the other way.

Just keep on spreading the gospel of social tolerance for every weird *** behavior, and in a generation we won't have a country.

You would have had a good argument if you could only stay out of the political shallow end...

- It’s both, imo. Left and right, politically speaking.
- It’s unfettered access to guns AND video games/movies/music. Not either, or.
- It’s the left claiming stigmatism of mental health and the right not allowing the CDC to even STUDY the effects of gun violence.
- “liberals” taking power away from teachers/schools; “conservatives” advocating for guns IN schools.
- “left” preaching tolerance and being anything but; “right” yelling for freedom. Neither understanding the meaning of their own buzzwords.

And when Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, and Christopher Gadsden quotes are misused and muddied into a cultural ethos...it also glorifies violence.

Red lights don’t stop cars, but it doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be any red lights. Let’s stop using foolish arguments that if it doesn’t wipe out the problem completely that it’s a waste of time. Stringent background checks registration AND insurance should be required, imo.

 

[Dilber]

Here's a literal meta-analysis on shootings, with decent methodology:

https://everytownresearch.org/reports/mass-shootings-analysis/

Yes, laws can help reduce gun violence.

 

[QuattroCane]

Ah, yes. The old AR-15/trampoline argument.

You got me.

Ah, yes. The old make a silly statement and run when challenged on it.

And, I’m going to go with the fact that you’re a liar! As bad as the tragedy is, you’re stupidly pushing a fake narrative that has been proven fake by buzzfeed. Don’t you see how stupid it makes you look?

Take the “L” and gain some level of self-respect

Buzzfeed is your point of reference...lol, ok.