OT: Mass Shooting at Douglas High School

[Billy D Williams]

Stop the BS for God's sake! The NRA is not the least concerned about 2nd Amendment! Their interest is selling guns to "whoever" wants them and do so by abolishing any reasonable restrictions or laws. Law abiding gun enthusiast and persons seeking protection are only part of their sales. What they don't admit is that by removing reasonable laws, gun dealers can sell guns to people without knowing who or where these guns will end up. Our legislators, law enforcement and the nra knows these guns are re-sold to criminals and criminals organizations, which make up a larger percentage of their sales than to so called good people. The US has evolved into a murderous society of gun toting and supporting neanderthals who are willing to continue support proliferating our society with guns with all the deaths to the contrary. Pulse, Vegas, Texas church and Douglass. Hand Guns and paramilitary weapons are made for one purpose and one purpose only.....TO KILL Human Beings! We know and continue to see that there are people who will use them for what they are intended. Good Bless the Dead.

 

[TheMatador]

He’s 19...you can’t even get a license for a concealed in FL until you’re 21. You can technically get one at 18 but it’s limited to what you can get and it takes a very long time to get something like an AR.

Is it the same for other guns functionally the same, such as semiautomatic rifles?

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

So what? The group is probably a tiny group of misfits. I know such groups. I used to investigate them for the very organization whose information you cite: the ADL.

The fact is, more gun violence is probably occurring in urban centers and not by white nationalists who, by and large, are relatively small in number by comparison to the numbers in gangs doing the killing in the urban centers. See my reference to John Lott's assertions made today in his interview on Dennis Prager's radio show.

If you have facts contrary to Lott's, please cite them. I welcome any rational contrary argument.

Incidentally, it seems most of Cruz' victims were white. I doubt that his attack was driven by any well-formed ideology, the guy was mentally ill.

Of course some of the neo-***** I used to monitor had some similar traits, often poor social skills, but they were not out-and-out loners, or else they didn't join neo-**** groups.

You missed the point of the post. I’m rebutting a poster who contended this was an antifa Democrat; that this was a liberal. He clearly was none of those things, and more to the point, his political leanings shouldn’t matter.

Freedom is going to a country music concert in Las Vegas and not having to run for your life, freedom is being able to walk through projects of Chicago, freedom is being able to send your kids to school and not have to identify their dead body later by what clothes they wore to school.

People are getting shot everywhere by everybody’s.

And, what does the race of the victims have to do with anything. I’ve never touched on race of victim or perpetrator. Why? Because I’m just smart enough to know that this is a societal problem and not a political/racial one. Why you would address that I have no idea.

Lastly, can we stop trying to pawn this off on the mentally ill. I don’t want to activate my inner Det. Somerset of “7” too much ... but we minimize the issue by calling these people crazy. We’ve accepted a meaner, less empathetic world (me included). They’re not all “evil”, though I won’t debate that murder is evil; they’re not all crazy even if the explanations of why they do what they do may have some throwing their hands up. People are just angry and the idea of resolving conflict peacefully (or at least without verbal/physical violence) is now portrayed as being weak.

Sane people kill, too. And they usually use a firearm to do it.

 

[TheMatador]

Stop the BS for God's sake! The NRA is not the least concerned about 2nd Amendment! Their interest is selling guns to "whoever" wants them and do so by abolishing any reasonable restrictions or laws. Law abiding gun enthusiast and persons seeking protection are only part of their sales. What they don't admit is that by removing reasonable laws, gun dealers can sell guns to people without knowing who or where these guns will end up. Our legislators, law enforcement and the nra knows these guns are re-sold to criminals and criminals organizations, which make up a larger percentage of their sales than to so called good people. The US has evolved into a murderous society of gun toting and supporting neanderthals who are willing to continue support proliferating our society with guns with all the deaths to the contrary. Pulse, Vegas, Texas church and Douglass. Hand Guns and paramilitary weapons are made for one purpose and one purpose only.....TO KILL Human Beings! We know and continue to see that there are people who will use them for what they are intended. Good Bless the Dead.

Many feel that they should have handguns for protection. Can't say that I blame them. Others hunt. I don't but I don't call them Neanderthals.

 

[frostycane]

I live in Vermont, I believe we have the highest or one of the highest guns per person rate. However, we have one of the lowest rates of gun violence. It points me to this. I think we need a better tracking system for guns in this country. Every gun, like cars or dogs, should be registered annually. If you do not register it they come asking for either a bill of sale, or they fine you. (Or something along those lines.) To me the biggest issue is not the people buying the guns its where they go after that. There is no way of knowing and that has to change.

I also think that like cars you should have to pass Hunter Safety course in order to buy or register a Gun. Again, just prove that you know how to use it, care for it and that you have at least some what been taught how to shoot it. I feel like these would be a couple of beginning measures we could take to at least begin the process of what a safer America could or would look like.

Fact is, if there is someone at your door with a gun and bad intentions there just isn't much you can do about it. But we have to act at some point and we have to be very direct with what we need done and not just knee jerk because of one instance.

 

[TheMatador]

You missed the point of the post. I’m rebutting a poster who contended this was an antifa Democrat; that this was a liberal. He clearly was none of those things, and more to the point, his political leanings shouldn’t matter.

Freedom is going to a country music concert in Las Vegas and not having to run for your life, freedom is being able to walk through projects of Chicago, freedom is being able to send your kids to school and not have to identify their dead body later by what clothes they wore to school.

People are getting shot everywhere by everybody’s.

And, what does the race of the victims have to do with anything. I’ve never touched on race of victim or perpetrator. Why? Because I’m just smart enough to know that this is a societal problem and not a political/racial one. Why you would address that I have no idea.

Lastly, can we stop trying to pawn this off on the mentally ill. I don’t want to activate my inner Det. Somerset of “7” too much ... but we minimize the issue by calling these people crazy. We’ve accepted a meaner, less empathetic world (me included). They’re not all “evil”, though I won’t debate that murder is evil; they’re not all crazy even if the explanations of why they do what they do may have some throwing their hands up. People are just angry and the idea of resolving conflict peacefully (or at least without verbal/physical violence) is now portrayed as being weak.

Sane people kill, too. And they usually use a firearm to do it.

I saw that post about this guy being Antifa. Not likely, and it is irrelevant.

By the way, Antifa in its own right is pretty bad and deserve part of the credit for that mess in Charlottesville. Everybody focused on the bad people on just one side. There were bad people on both sides. Antifa goes looking for violence. The police messed up badly by not keeping the two sides separate.

 

[cf3000]

Essentially what John Lott said today about AR-15. Same as a semi-automatic hunting rifle. Just dressed up to look more military.

Which is strange because the military asked Armalite to design and build the weapon.

 

[canesplaymaker]

go get the facts before talking smack...

I have the facts moron. Gun deaths are almost zero in England .

 

[RichtsaCane]

A gun by itself never killed anyone. You got to get to the root of the problem...that is the person behind the gun. Our schools teach children they are the products of millions of years of evolution...the strongest survive...kill or be killed in the animal world. This shooter was just carrying out what he was taught in school.
But we have outlawed the Ten Commandments that our Creator gave us to live by included in it is "thou shall not kill." And that each person is a special creation created in God's image and He made us to Love our neighbors as ourselves. If children were taught this, the killings and hate throughout our society would tremendously diminish. But we have removed God and even prayer from our schools and made them illegal. Why are people asking for prayer?

 

[JoNJoN]

I confused. I thought schools were gun free zones.

 

[TheMatador]

I live in Vermont, I believe we have the highest or one of the highest guns per person rate. However, we have one of the lowest rates of gun violence. It points me to this. I think we need a better tracking system for guns in this country. Every gun, like cars or dogs, should be registered annually. If you do not register it they come asking for either a bill of sale, or they fine you. (Or something along those lines.) To me the biggest issue is not the people buying the guns its where they go after that. There is no way of knowing and that has to change.

I also think that like cars you should have to pass Hunter Safety course in order to buy or register a Gun. Again, just prove that you know how to use it, care for it and that you have at least some what been taught how to shoot it. I feel like these would be a couple of beginning measures we could take to at least begin the process of what a safer America could or would look like.

Fact is, if there is someone at your door with a gun and bad intentions there just isn't much you can do about it. But we have to act at some point and we have to be very direct with what we need done and not just knee jerk because of one instance.

Most of the people with guns in Vermont are probably rural hunters. There's probably great hunting there and it"s a long time tradition. It's foolish to try to blame them for this nut in Florida but some essentially are doing so.

 

[Billy D Williams]

I'm for banning guns with the exception for those for hunting or target shooting, but only after rigorous registration process with local law enforcement, FBI and ATF. I deal in facts and countries than ban or deeply restrict guns have almost no gun violence. The evidence is overwhelming that the answer is banning guns not becoming a police state. Do your research and stop with all this BS! Like you are going to identify all the mental psychos. 95% of disturbed mental persons do not lash out by mass murdering.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

I saw that post about this guy being Antifa. Not likely, and it is irrelevant.

By the way, Antifa in its own right is pretty bad and deserve part of the credit for that mess in Charlottesville. Everybody focused on the bad people on just one side. There were bad people on both sides. Antifa goes looking for violence. The police messed up badly by not keeping the two sides separate.

And yet you live to post your irrelevant political ideology couched in nearly every post. Why do you have to always default to nonsense. This isn’t about Antifa. Aside from acknowledging them, there was no reason to mention it again (unless you’re not an honest broker in this discussion). But you, like a few others, feel so disaffected that you can’t live without coughing up this mental phlegm.

“Antifa deserves part of the ... Charlottesville”, “...focused on the bad people on just one side”, “...bad people on both sides”, “police messed up badly…” Wow, you’ve regurgitated every divisive, diversive talking point...but where have I read THAT before... hmmm.

 

[Tetragrammaton Cane]

A gun by itself never killed anyone. You got to get to the root of the problem...that is the person behind the gun. Our schools teach children they are the products of millions of years of evolution...the strongest survive...kill or be killed in the animal world. This shooter was just carrying out what he was taught in school.
But we have outlawed the Ten Commandments that our Creator gave us to live by included in it is "thou shall not kill." And that each person is a special creation created in God's image and He made us to Love our neighbors as ourselves. If children were taught this, the killings and hate throughout our society would tremendously diminish. But we have removed God and even prayer from our schools and made them illegal. Why are people asking for prayer?

LOL. The 10 commandments?!?! Have you ever read the Bible? Lot of killing going on. Wait, you’ve never noticed? Reread Exodus. Skip to the part about What happens after Moses comes back from meeting with GOD.

So you’re for eliminating the death penalty? I’m not.
So you’re for eliminating gun ownership? I’m not.

Many Scandinavians and many countries are neither Christian nor religious and they have neither the murder rate or gun violence. They would disagree with you about GOD.

 

[apfenny3]

A gun by itself never killed anyone. You got to get to the root of the problem...that is the person behind the gun. Our schools teach children they are the products of millions of years of evolution...the strongest survive...kill or be killed in the animal world. This shooter was just carrying out what he was taught in school.
But we have outlawed the Ten Commandments that our Creator gave us to live by included in it is "thou shall not kill." And that each person is a special creation created in God's image and He made us to Love our neighbors as ourselves. If children were taught this, the killings and hate throughout our society would tremendously diminish. But we have removed God and even prayer from our schools and made them illegal. Why are people asking for prayer?

No, teaching evolution in schools is nothing close to "kill or be killed" or anything remotely close that could have influenced a shooter. And no we shouldn't be teaching religious practices in public schools besides the basic fundamental beliefs and origins of the major religions in our world. Our country was specifically founded to escape religious persecution and to be able to freely practice whatever faith they wanted, not to be force fed it in schools.

 

[John77]

Rest In Peace to all those who died during this senseless tragedy and major love to the offensive line coach who sacrificed his life to save students lives.

 

[Zbrod95]

They’re saying now that even though he was associated with that group that there’s a strong possibility it had to do with a girl.

 

[Zbrod95]

Rest In Peace to all those who died during this senseless tragedy and major love to the offensive line coach who sacrificed his life to save students lives.

I can’t even say that enough. I’m just finding out that I have friends that know someone who passed or hurt.

 

[QuattroCane]

I'm for banning guns with the exception for those for hunting or target shooting, but only after rigorous registration process with local law enforcement, FBI and ATF. I deal in facts and countries than ban or deeply restrict guns have almost no gun violence. The evidence is overwhelming that the answer is banning guns not becoming a police state. Do your research and stop with all this BS! Like you are going to identify all the mental psychos. 95% of disturbed mental persons do not lash out by mass murdering.

That will never happen nor is it feasible. It goes back to the old saying "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"

 

[UMAlum21]

Ah, yes. The old AR-15/trampoline argument.

You got me.

There is no legitimate reason for any citizen to own an AR-15. Back when the 2nd Amendment was promulgated, oh, 227 years ago, the only "arms" available were single shot muskets, not automatic weapons. If you truly think our founding fathers contemplated allowing automatic weapons in the hand of every ******* in the country, you're clueless.

Honest, rational discussions are needed to advance society and discussion about the causes of gun violence in this country certainly fit that bill. That said, it detracts from the legitimacy of these conversations when people (whether intentionally to promote a political agenda or just out of pure naivety and lack of awareness) tout falsehoods as fact. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you weren't being dishonest and are just uneducated on the subject.

An AR-15 is not an automatic weapon. It fires a single round per trigger pull. Automatic weapons are highly federally regulated and almost impossible to receive a license for, and if you manage that it's expensive as ****. We're talking tens of thousands of dollars.