OT: Mass Shooting at Douglas High School

[King Slayer]

I feel like even if there was no gun control in other developed countries, school shootings would be rare. Theres something so ****ed up in the USA that makes school shootings a relatively common act of violence. Gun control should impede some of these killers and that would be worth it but something needs to be done with the mental health of the country thats clearly deteriorating. You don't see criminals and gangbangers shooting up schools, these are some other kind of people.

Yeah those other countries just passed passed those gun control laws for the **** of it. You are right.

 

[canespr]

Yeah those other countries just passed passed those gun control laws for the **** of it. You are right.

not saying it didn't happen, just saying they were not as common as in the USA in which its almost weekly.

 

[Tad Footeball]

You know who are the most credible gun owners to listen to when it comes to a debate on gun rights- the ones that'll readily admit that the NRA is total trash. It's fraudulent on so many fronts that an honest discussion on the 2nd Amendment can never be had when it and its money is the loudest voice on that side.

That said, we need to also hold some light and place some blame on the ACLU types that swung the pendulum so far in the other direction under the guise of de-stigmatization of mental illness that we're now soooo afraid of calling out obvious nutjobs and restricting their freedoms at all.

What do you think the reaction would be tomorrow if we said that mental health professionals had to report patients immediately so that they'd at least temporarily not be allowed access to firearms? People would scream to high heaven that you're deterring people from seeking treatment.

Disirregardless of all of this, I personally have a realllll hard time not faulting the parents of these school shooters before anything on the societal level. Almost always they're in denial about the mental issues of their kid and/or they're severely negligent or just absent in general as parents. Really sad when their failure ruins so many other lives.

 

[Dwinstitles]

Dwins, I hope you’re wrong.

It will never get better only worse

 

[Meat]

LOL dumbass conservatives. Music, not going to church, weed, minorities, anything else i'm forgetting that cause people kill to people each other ?

The media.

The media only care about getting clicks and getting eyeballs on the screen...so they glorify and sensationalize the **** out of tragedies like this.

They are literally making money off of people’s suffering, but nobody seems to have a problem with it.

Meanwhile....how many of these school shootings would have been prevented if the media didn’t made the shooter world famous??

We’re giving the killers exactly what they want - attention.

Media are very culpable. But as long as they’re making money off the misery of others, they don’t care.

 

[Meat]

I feel like even if there was no gun control in other developed countries, school shootings would be rare. Theres something so ****ed up in the USA that makes school shootings a relatively common act of violence. Gun control should impede some of these killers and that would be worth it but something needs to be done with the mental health of the country thats clearly deteriorating. You don't see criminals and gangbangers shooting up schools, these are some other kind of people.

A lot of these shooters do it because they want to be on TV. They live meaningless pathetic lives, and this is the only way they can ever get noticed.

We’re the only country in the world with a media that glorifies these scumbags.

 

[Meat]

First of all prayers for all of those affected. This violence is senseless and disgusting that its becoming the norm. These are my thoughts and I don't really care to argue back and forth with anyone; its a polarizing subject and we're likely ingrained with our beliefs already. I was a political science major at UM and in law school now, not that it makes me any more qualified than anyone else, but I've always had an interest in politics and government.

I come from Indiana, which I think politically is about as ***-backwards as it gets or certainly up there, and from a town that is extremely conservative. Most of my family however leans left on most issues and are very against guns. I personally own three guns, since I enjoy target shooting as a hobby and feel safer having one in my home than not. Despite this, I think our country is at the point where are laws aren't working. I'm a believer in the 2nd Amendment, but our forefathers could not have envisioned the technology and scope of repercussions we see today.

Twice I've walked in and out of gun shops in 10 minutes with no prior wait time when purchasing a weapon. Although the convenience can be nice, the amount of people getting guns that shouldn't is not worth it. Yes there will always be shootings, and yes people will find illegal means to obtain weapons. Nobody is clamoring that all crimes would be reduced, but even if some people are deterred by newer regulations, or the amount of shootings in our country drop even a few percentages, then it is more than worth it for everyone to be slightly more inconvenienced.

The status quo isn't working, and this isn't happening in any other civilized country in the world. Americans will always have guns, but its our duty to do everything we can as a country to make changes to reduce the instances of this happening at the rate that it is.

We have had the right to bear arms in this country since 1776, yet we never had mass school shootings until very recently. Now why is that?

Until someone can come up with a good explanation for that, I think we’re all spinning our wheels.

Just banning guns isn’t the answer. Something else clearly changed in our culture.

 

[apfenny3]

We have had the right to bear arms in this country since 1776, yet we never had mass school shootings until very recently. Now why is that?

Until someone can come up with a good explanation for that, I think we’re all spinning our wheels.

Just banning guns isn’t the answer. Something else clearly changed in our culture.

Nobody wants to ban guns. Just sensical and more stringent requirements to obtain them. Doing nothing changes nothing. Making changes certainly gives us a chance and if they don’t they don’t make things any worse.

 

[Meat]

Nobody wants to ban guns. Just sensical and more stringent requirements to obtain them. Doing nothing changes nothing. Making changes certainly gives us a chance and if they don’t they don’t make things any worse.

I could get behind mandatory background checks and closing the gun show loopholes.

But I think we also need to have better resources dedicated to mental health in this country. We used to have very effective mental health clinics until President Kennedy closed them back in the 60’s, and we never built that infrastructure back up.

We also need to take away the incentive these kids have for these mass shootings...and that is media attention.

So I would only be in favor of looking at our gun laws if it came in conjunction with a lot of money for mental hospitals, and if it came with new laws to restrict the media from reporting on these shootings.

Stop putting these whackos on the front page and you’ll see a quick end to these shootings.

 

[TerragonSix]

When Clinton passed the Crime Bill to include the Assault Weapon Ban in the 90s, events like Columbine and the OKC bombing occured.

Personally, I dont know about you, but I prefer to wait until the bodies are cold and buried before I will discuss the issue.

I suggest you all do the same.

 

[paksat]

All countries have serious drug issues and this is not happening there. Check out the stats for Europe. Nobody gets shot in England.why? Because if they get caught with a gun your doing 10 to 20 years. Real gun laws. Sorry rednecks I know you love your guns.

LOL

man I can only IMAGINE how much more fanatical our government would become if they didn't have to worry about it's citizens turning on them

we'd probably all be in concentration camps by now

This is the argument of NRA bobbleheads^ . Of course localized gun laws don't work. As soon as someone brings up nations with stricter gun laws that DIRECTLY CORRELATE to less deaths you tuck your tail and change the argument. Tell us how free you are when your children and childrens children are cowering under their desks.

those nations also have different issues and people than we do, not to mention governments.

but to be real, your side of the argument always tucks it's tail and runs when it's brought up that we never had these issues before the last 20 or so years.

many of the old timers here I'm sure knew of people that drove to school with guns in their cars or trucks ( rednecks or country folk w/e ) and we never had an issue

 

[TheMatador]

That'd almost make more sense than arming the teachers like some people float.

My basic point was that a school shouldn't be less fortified than your local Target that somehow has an armed cop in a squad car sitting outside of it 24/7.

Not a good guy with a gun is the solution to a bad guy with a gun type of argument but just one for better security at our schools while we're busy arguing big picture gun rights/gun legislation issues in an endless circle.

Since you folks have injected politics into this thread, I doubt there us any type of gun law that will work. There are hundreds of millions of guns in circulation. How do you confiscate all of them? Stop manufacture of ammunition? Maybe. No way the very large numbers of law-abiding citizens who hunt will stand for it. I'm not into guns--don't own a single one. I don't hunt, but I'm just being realistic. I don't think there's any gun law that can be workable.

Better to building up security at school buildings. They knew who this guy was and that he should never have been permitted on the grounds. It would be a shame that schools would become fortresses, but that might be our future.

Not going to happen as long as the NRA is funneling $$$$ to our parasitic legislators. (Who are mostly useless anyway.)[/Q

Yeah there were two incidents in this country that changed public opinion and the law.

In 1987 a guy walked around his town with semi-automatic weapons killing 17 people. We changed the laws to ban automatic weapons. (Hungerford massacre)

In 1996 a guy walked into a primary school in Scotland and killed 18 people (mostly children) with handguns. We changed the laws to ban handguns. (Dunblane massacre)

Now you can still get your hands on shotguns (a lot of farmer have them) and pistols (at gun clubs), but it's much more difficult. Basically only the armed Police response units and hardened criminals have guns in the UK now.

It's tough to watch what's happening in the US every other week tbh - but it's a different culture obviously.

And it's probably not realistic given the hundreds if millions of guns out there. The government will never be able to confiscate even a fraction of them all. The history if America is different from England. We had a history of settling a very large frontier and guns were essential both for protection and for hunting food. I'm not a gun person, don't own one and don't hunt. For many, guns are an integral part of rural culture. Most are decent, law-abiding people. They will never give up their guns but I won't disparage them by calling them "rednecks." (Remember our beloved late all-time great Jerome Brown was thrown out of student housing for bringing a pistol into the dorm. Was Jerome a redneck?)

I'm just realistic and don't believe gun control is a realistic option.

If you got rid of all the guns, the whackos will just learn how to make and set off bombs. Probably not that hard.

Sad to say, but I don't think gun laws will work to stop this. And don't call me a gun nut, NRA member, etc., because I'm none of those things. The last time I fired a gun was when I did riflery at summer camp. We shot BB guns and 22's at paper targets. I was in 4th grade at the time.

 

[TheMatador]

When Clinton passed the Crime Bill to include the Assault Weapon Ban in the 90s, events like Columbine and the OKC bombing occured.

Personally, I dont know about you, but I prefer to wait until the bodies are cold and buried before I will discuss the issue.

I suggest you all do the same.

I would too but when people start doing it three or four posts in, and start name-calling and making disparaging remarks about those who disagree, the door's been opened.

I'm not an NRA member or sympathizer, I am not into guns, but some have chosen to exploit this tragedy with political statements and name-calling, including a bigoted statement about white people from rural society ("rednecks").

The sad fact is, I don't know if there is realistic gun legislation that will work.

Those who are making these strong statements, please tell us what kind of legislation is realistic?

 

[TheMatador]

Gun violence and today’s youth DO need to be addressed. Gun laws DO NOT need to be addressed. Bad guys aka the ones responsible for these school shootings will ALWAYS find ways to obtain firearms (burglaries, stealing them from idiots who leave them in their cars, etc)
Making it harder to for good citizens to obtain them isn’t the answer.

And they can take an online course from former Cane Willie Williams who had a pro set of burglary tools and knew how to use then before he was out of high school.

 

[TheMatador]

LOL

man I can only IMAGINE how much more fanatical our government would become if they didn't have to worry about it's citizens turning on them

we'd probably all be in concentration camps by now



those nations also have different issues and people than we do, not to mention governments.

but to be real, your side of the argument always tucks it's tail and runs when it's brought up that we never had these issues before the last 20 or so years.

many of the old timers here I'm sure knew of people that drove to school with guns in their cars or trucks ( rednecks or country folk w/e ) and we never had an issue

When I lived in north Florida there were a lot of men who had a gun rack on the back window of their pickup truck cab. Usually it was a shotgun slung across the back window, for hunting, I guess. Never saw an AR-15. These were generally peaceful people, didn't attack schools. Yet when you talk NRA and "rednecks" these are people you blame. It will be interesting to see if young Mr. Cruz, the shooter, is an NRA member. He might be but is not typical of it's membership, I would guess.

 

[TheMatador]

You know who are the most credible gun owners to listen to when it comes to a debate on gun rights- the ones that'll readily admit that the NRA is total trash. It's fraudulent on so many fronts that an honest discussion on the 2nd Amendment can never be had when it and its money is the loudest voice on that side.

That said, we need to also hold some light and place some blame on the ACLU types that swung the pendulum so far in the other direction under the guise of de-stigmatization of mental illness that we're now soooo afraid of calling out obvious nutjobs and restricting their freedoms at all.

What do you think the reaction would be tomorrow if we said that mental health professionals had to report patients immediately so that they'd at least temporarily not be allowed access to firearms? People would scream to high heaven that you're deterring people from seeking treatment.

Disirregardless of all of this, I personally have a realllll hard time not faulting the parents of these school shooters before anything on the societal level. Almost always they're in denial about the mental issues of their kid and/or they're severely negligent or just absent in general as parents. Really sad when their failure ruins so many other lives.

"Disirregardkess"?

That's not a real word.

It's disregardless.

 

[1mg of Epi]

Please don't make this political. It's not about guns. Remember PEOPLE KILL PEOPLE. What we need to do is address all the mental health issues because it takes some kind of crazy ******* to do something like this.

Prayers for everyone affected.

Trying to say that bringing guns into a discussion about gun violence is political, is about as political a statement as can be made.

 

[CaneFan79]

See any mental hospitals in existence these days? I remember as a kid going by Pilgrim State on Long Island. It was closed down for being too "horrific" and progressives pushed "mainstreaming" the mentally ill. As Tad Footeball mentioned, we have swung the pendulum to the point we don't identify these types of people early, just socially promote and push on to the next level.

 

[Canes10]

I could get behind mandatory background checks and closing the gun show loopholes.

But I think we also need to have better resources dedicated to mental health in this country. We used to have very effective mental health clinics until President Kennedy closed them back in the 60’s, and we never built that infrastructure back up.

We also need to take away the incentive these kids have for these mass shootings...and that is media attention.

So I would only be in favor of looking at our gun laws if it came in conjunction with a lot of money for mental hospitals, and if it came with new laws to restrict the media from reporting on these shootings.

Stop putting these whackos on the front page and you’ll see a quick end to these shootings.

I agree with this. Even the simplest movement on gun control will be controversial. A focus on mental health, ties into healthcare, another complicated situation. Having the media not ever mention a shooter again sounds like "doing something" to me.

If a shooter wants to get a gun, he'll probably find the means, no matter what the law. On the mental health side, there would probably be a lot of people who would never initiate a mass shooting, taking up too many resources.

Maybe a law restricting the media is a bit much. I do believe though, if all major networks announced an "agreement" to censor the shooter...that would be doing something...and it even could be the most effective.

 

[Tad Footeball]

"Disirregardkess"?

That's not a real word.

It's disregardless.

You're around here enough to know that I deploy that in a tongue-in-cheek manner.