OT- Have athletes gotten worse in the NBA/MLB?

Yes, players are on aggregate more skilled. That is undeniable. Athletes are also better.

If Spencer Dinwiddie played back in the late 80s, early-mid 90s, yall would be using him as an example of how athletic the league was back then.

Today, he's just a guy athletically.

Which is the point.

Who are these freak athletes dominating at the 2? Devin Booker, James Harden, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum and Klay Thompson?

In another era, those guys are Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullen. Good players? Yes. Evolutionary athletes. Come on.
 
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Who are these freak athletes dominating at the 2? Devin Booker, James Harden, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum and Klay Thompson?

In another era, those guys are Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullen. Good players? Yes. Evolutionary athletes. Come on.

lol, ok man.
 
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Do you see great athleticism at the 2? Where is it? The top guys don’t have it. They are good players for other reasons.

1 - you're underrating the athleticism already of the guys at the top.
2 - you're leaving out the most athletic guys at the position.

Players skill today is so high, they got you talking nonsense about their athleticism and the collective athleticism in the NBA is so high, it makes you think no one is really athletic.
 
Before he stopped dunking to ease the burden on his knees...BTW, Cj McCollum has a 39 inch vertical. Bradley Beal has a 40 inch vertical. Again going back to Spencer's point



 
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Who are these freak athletes dominating at the 2? Devin Booker, James Harden, Bradley Beal, CJ McCollum and Klay Thompson?

In another era, those guys are Mitch Richmond and Chris Mullen. Good players? Yes. Evolutionary athletes. Come on.

S/o Mitch Richmond but Brandon Knight is still the best player to come out of Broward. Also where's the season, not decade, that MJ was going against dozens and dozens of freak athletes, who were also the top players, at the big and wing spot? It'd be easier to match up a list of those guys vs a list of guys today.
 
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1 - you're underrating the athleticism already of the guys at the top.
2 - you're leaving out the most athletic guys at the position.

Players skill today is so high, they got you talking nonsense about their athleticism and the collective athleticism in the NBA is so high, it makes you think no one is really athletic.

dmoney avoided that sh*t like the plague. lol

And he keeps downplaying athleticism of guys like James Harden but if they are already downplaying that...you know they aint giving credit elsewhere.

Bradley Beal's both parents did sports in college...and he has 4 brothers that played above the div 2 level of college football. Bradley Beal has a max vert of 39 at the combine in 2012. Yall are making him and the other guys into craig ehlo lol
 
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James Harden, Arizona State
31.5​
37.0​
11′ 3”​
11′ 8.5”​
17​
11.1​
3.13​
no step vert max vert Bench agility






He was 6'5 222 coming out in the draft.
 
Bradley Beal's both parents did sports in college...and he has 4 brothers that played above the div 2 level of college football. Bradley Beal has a max vert of 39
at the combine in 2012. Yall are making him and the other guys into craig ehlo lol

If he jumps so high, why do I never see him cram on anybody?

He’s not Jordan, he’s not Drexler, he’s not even Eddie Jones or Latrell Sprewell as an athlete.

He’s modern day Mitch Richmond. A guy like Chris Mullin wishes he played today. Back then, he was great but could never be elite because of his athleticism. These days, he’d have a green light to shoot pull-up 30 footers.
 
Alright you're just going to ignore 85% of every post I make so it's cool. Like I said, let's not act like Terry Porter didn't give Stockton the business. Guy averaged 17 ppg in the regular season then gave Stockton 30 ppg in the playoffs and we're acting like he was Patrick Beverly while completely ignoring Stockton was sometimes matched up against bums like Robert Pack instead of Chris Paul and Damian Lillard every year. People still remember Stockton getting torched by Terry Porter because the other series he was guarding Vinny Del ***** and Robert Pack. When he went against KJ he got torched by him too.

I know what skill on the basketball court is. I know what athleticism on the basketball court is. But if you think Stockton is a better athlete than Curry and Kyrie then we are so far apart. I think Stockton is right there with those guys as far as skill but he was more functional and economic.

Damian Lillard isn't a top 5 athlete at the point guard position and would be an elite 90s point guard in terms of athleticism.
This... Imagine Westbrook or D-rose with is speed going up against Stockton.. He wouldn't be stopped. The athletes today are far superior to what you had in the 80's and 90s.

I challenge anyone to watch this full game. Jordan 63 vas Celtics at the Garden




That 86 team was on oof the best teams of all time. Look at the speed of Jordan compared to everyone else. Now Imagine Lebron, KD, Leonard, Curry, Westbrook, healthy Derrick Rose, Prime Kobe, Kawhi Leonard, Giannis, Prime TMac, Lilliard, going up against those WINGS... they would MURDER them. Bird and Michale can't cover none of these guys... they are just superior athletes. Isiah Thomas himself said so that athletically the league is a different animal. Sort of What the 50s and 60s were compared to the 80s and 90s. We tend to romanticize the past and I suspect many will see Kobe/Lebron the same 30 years from now. But To put things into perspective. Lebron 's weight is more than any dream team player and not a single Center or Poward Forward in that Era has Lebron's speed, dribbling or passing ability. You are talking about Karl Malone with that speed... vs players that played below the rim, less athletic.

And for everyone who says that the modern players would not performers well because of the rule changes, that's baloney. Chris Mullin averaged 25 points per game for like 4 seasons in the 90s... Steve Smith averaged over 20 ppt for 3 seasons in the 90s, Tim Hardaway at least 4 seasons averaging 20 points per game...



You want to know what modern NBA players are capable of? Let's look at a 19 year old Kobe dropping 33 with Jordan and Pippen guarding him and he's doing this OFF THE BENCH... Remember a this stage MJ led the league in scoring and Bulls were still the best team in the world. But the class of athlete that Kobe became ( 05-09 Prime Kobe) Jordan never in his life saw a wing like that.



The game has evolved... the athletes today are a different breed athletically.
 
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Here is a scrub like Zach Levine casually dunking a 360 degree dunk from the FOUL LINE ( start at 0:42). I grew up with "Air Jordan" dunking from the free throw line in the 80s. I was told that Jordan and Wilkins were some of the best dunkers ever. Guess what? Scrubs like Aaron Gordon, Derrick Jones and Levine would OBLITIRATE those guys... add Jason Richardson as well. Heck Vince Carter's dunks look tame to what we see today. The game continues to evolve. It has not taken a step back. Forwards are becoming good passers now ( KD for example, Lebron is amazing) and now a dude like KD 7 feet , can get to the rim with speed, can shoot from 30, has a nasty midrange, a total athletic freak. Nothing guards that alien in the 80s and 90s. Power forwards played inside, and for the most part did not have the ball handling abilities many top ofrowards have today. Forwards today play like guards, they would murder them man. Anyways.. here is a scrub making all the MJ/ Dominique dunks obsolete.

 
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If he jumps so high, why do I never see him cram on anybody?

He’s not Jordan, he’s not Drexler, he’s not even Eddie Jones or Latrell Sprewell as an athlete.

He’s modern day Mitch Richmond. A guy like Chris Mullin wishes he played today. Back then, he was great but could never be elite because of his athleticism. These days, he’d have a green light to shoot pull-up 30 footers.
You brag about testing when it fits your narrative but then when the same guys break your narrative you downplay their athleticism.

He’s got great athleticism and great skill. What’s so hard to understand about that? Brad Beal is absolutely a better athlete than Eddie Jones. You sound like you don’t actually watch the NBA anymore, you’re just here for the nostalgic hot takes.
 
You brag about testing when it fits your narrative but then when the same guys break your narrative you downplay their athleticism.

He’s got great athleticism and great skill. What’s so hard to understand about that? Brad Beal is absolutely a better athlete than Eddie Jones. You sound like you don’t actually watch the NBA anymore, you’re just here for the nostalgic hot takes.
comparing Bradely Beal to Eddie Jones is a slap in the face to beal. Eddie Jones LMAO... come on man. Have you seen Beal's speed? When did Eddie Jones move like that in his life? Another one is John Wall. Imagine Danny Ainge or Mark Price trying to guard a dude like John Wall. He would nut him every time down the floor. Literally he would posterize all the guards not named Michael Jordan..
 
If he jumps so high, why do I never see him cram on anybody?

He’s not Jordan, he’s not Drexler, he’s not even Eddie Jones or Latrell Sprewell as an athlete.

He’s modern day Mitch Richmond. A guy like Chris Mullin wishes he played today. Back then, he was great but could never be elite because of his athleticism. These days, he’d have a green light to shoot pull-up 30 footers.

I know Chris Mullin is white...but Chris Mulin is a hooper, who was on the dream team and an all star. Chris played high school basketball in NYC and streetball in the hoods in NYC with guys with ultra athleticism.

@DMoney it took me a grand total of 5 seconds to find this from like 2 months ago.




My best friend who played over seas ball and i would argue this same thng alll the time...and in fact i was the guy on your side of the fence...i use to tell him the 80s early 90s were more athletic. This is an argument we use to have in 2002-2004. Now ive fully changed my tune lol which is why im arguing it hard now.

Also Dunking like that is a personality..Beal doesnt give me that persona...add to it my boy use to always state guys just save themselves after awhile in the nba..its the same 2 points. lol
* Cool fact..my boy and Willie Willams were in competition for the DE spot..i guess we know who won out in high school.lol He stayed on the hardcourt
 
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You brag about testing when it fits your narrative but then when the same guys break your narrative you downplay their athleticism.

I haven’t bragged about testing once because the 90s guys don’t have public test results. I simply pointed out how weak and slow Kevin Durant was when tested. The same thing is clear when you watch him play. He wins with skill and length, not athleticism.

People keep confusing “athlete” with “player.” Beal is a better player than Eddie Jones. But he is not as quick laterally (which shows on defense) and he’s not as explosive. He’s a better player because he has more skill on offense.
 
Here is a scrub like Zach Levine casually dunking a 360 degree dunk from the FOUL LINE ( start at 0:42). I grew up with "Air Jordan" dunking from the free throw line in the 80s. I was told that Jordan and Wilkins were some of the best dunkers ever. Guess what? Scrubs like Aaron Gordon, Derrick Jones and Levine would OBLITIRATE those guys... add Jason Richardson as well. Heck Vince Carter's dunks look tame to what we see today. The game continues to evolve. It has not taken a step back. Forwards are becoming good passers now ( KD for example, Lebron is amazing) and now a dude like KD 7 feet , can get to the rim with speed, can shoot from 30, has a nasty midrange, a total athletic freak. Nothing guards that alien in the 80s and 90s. Power forwards played inside, and for the most part did not have the ball handling abilities many top ofrowards have today. Forwards today play like guards, they would murder them man. Anyways.. here is a scrub making all the MJ/ Dominique dunks obsolete.



They are saying in this thread that KD has never seen the defense prowess of a scottie pippen ( who by the way is oneof my favorite players ever..i didnt like jordan growing up).

What he would do to the same people in Jordan Era would be ungodly lol. He's a mismatch nightmare NOW with the freaks we have currently
 
@DMoney it took me a grand total of 5 seconds to find this from like 2 months ago.




My best friend who played over seas ball and i would argue this same thng alll the time...and in fact i was the guy on your side of the fence...i use to tell him the 80s early 90s were more athletic. This is an argument we use to have in 2002-2004. Now ive fully changed my tune lol which is why im arguing it hard now.


Now compare that to Eddie Jones. And we aren’t just talking dunks. Jones is much quicker and more explosive on the other end, too:

 
Eddie Jones was a really good athlete. Sprewell and Beal aren't close though. Beal is a lot better at short area change of direction than those guys. Aside from effort and IQ, Eddie Jones is better at dunking and defense because he's three inches taller with longer arms
 
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