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One reason our players make bad NFL decisions

Liberty City El said:
First of all foh with that nonsense. Shaq was invited to the combine with JJack & Ahmmon as a guy who is a potential early round pick, just ask Poppa Shaq.

All I was doing was stating my opinion of them as players, I wasn’t saying they should leave, I said I wouldn’t be shocked if they did.

I know your m/o on this board is to always be super negative about everything, but if you’re trying to include me amongst the people that give players bad advice you’re 100% wrong. I even said yesterday RJ shoulda came back his Senior year.

You can disagree with an opinion, but trying to make me out to be someone putting out bad advice to the players is way outta line bruh, you don’t know me & I would never do something like that to my school, miss me wit that bullsh*t.
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Strunk a nerve huh?

Let’s get something straight. I never mentioned or commented on JJ draft potential. This has nothing to do with being negative. This is being real. I hope those guys do make 1st rd picks.

I don’t care who was invited where. Is shaq or Pink anything like Perryman? No- and I’m sure most the board would agree with that assessment. At this current point they are not 1rd material.

By you saying they are 1/2 round material without even playing halfway through junior season is ridiculous.

Guys like RJ and Norton had decent sophomore season and eveyone was touting them as the best duo in the nation. Best DL in the nation. More talent then bama. These words were mentioned on this exact board. Yada yada. And ultimately they believed it their own press clippings and it cost them.
 
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TheChosenOne said:
No one is complaining because the RB stable is loaded. If AR82 leaves, with the way Dugans has been recruiting WR, people won't complain about him declaring either.

Alabama is typically loaded and gets production out of everyone by their 3rd year.
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I would say something if richards was projected to go 5th round or later. I dont give a shît what's behind any of these guys.
 
This culture needs to change.
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I agree with everything you’ve said. Love Shaq, but he’d be lucky to go in the 3rd round if the draft was tomorrow.
 
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scrantoncane said:
I agree with everything you’ve said. Love Shaq, but he’d be lucky to go in the 3rd round if the draft was tomorrow.
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Agreed. I don't understand why people think Shaq or the other LBs will leave early next year. Lbs are picked early based on size and speed neither of which Shaq has. To be honest, I think his ceiling is 3rd round.

People also assume Richards is guaranteed to leave early as well. He would have to stay healthy AND dominate this season.
 
M3N said:
Strunk a nerve huh?

Let’s get something straight. I never mentioned or commented on JJ draft potential. This has nothing to do with being negative. This is being real. I hope those guys do make 1st rd picks.

I don’t care who was invited where. Is shaq or Pink anything like Perryman? No- and I’m sure most the board would agree with that assessment. At this current point they are not 1rd material.

By you saying they are 1/2 round material without even playing halfway through junior season is ridiculous.

Guys like RJ and Norton had decent sophomore season and eveyone was touting them as the best duo in the nation. Best DL in the nation. More talent then bama. These words were mentioned on this exact board. Yada yada. And ultimately they believed it their own press clippings and it cost them.
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Reread.

I said Shaq is a mid to late 1st to 2nd round prospect & Pinck with another year of high level play is a 2nd to 3rd. That's after the season is over not right now. And that's IF they were to declare, I never said they should.
 
Credibility and reliability are heavily dependent on a larger body of work.

Those that leave early - they only short themselves - as money goes to those that evaluators have lots of confidence in. And lots of confidence is demonstrated by players paying their dues by putting their time in, increasing their skill level, and demonstrating they're not just a season or two season wonder.
 
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Liberty City El said:
Reread.

I said Shaq is a mid to late 1st to 2nd round prospect & Pinck with another year of high level play is a 2nd to 3rd. That's after the season is over not right now. And that's IF they were to declare, I never said they should.
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Shaq will never be a 1st or 2nd rounder. He doesn't have the measurables that justifies that high of a pick. Even if he was an all American the next two years, I don't think he would get drafted that high. Hope I'm wrong. High picks are about production and potential (more on potential).

Heck we have seen Heisman winning QBs go undrafted.
 
Liberty City El said:
Reread.

I said Shaq is a mid to late 1st to 2nd round prospect & Pinck with another year of high level play is a 2nd to 3rd. That's after the season is over not right now. And that's IF they were to declare, I never said they should.
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Need more production out of Shaq this year. I look at Denzel Perryman who went in the second round after two really productive years (junior and senior). Sean Spence's production blows Pinch's away and he went third round. I got that Denzel and Sean were under 6 feet, but Pinck is only a tad taller. We have a tendency to overvalue our kids based on potential. I hope we get big production years out of both kids.
 
Would staying in school been the best decision for these players? It’s hard to argue against returning in hindsight, but it’s always 20-20.

Six former SEC players entered the draft as juniors but they all failed to hear their name called this weekend.

  • Jeff Holland, EDGE, Auburn
  • Kamryn Pettway, RB, Auburn
  • Eddy Pineiro, K, Florida
  • Trenton Thompson, DT, Georgia
  • Kevin Toliver, CB, LSU
  • Toby Weathersby, OL, LSU
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Just to dispel a little of the fiction that it's only our players.
 
Pentagon Cane said:
Need more production out of Shaq this year. I look at Denzel Perryman who went in the second round after two really productive years (junior and senior). Sean Spence's production blows Pinch's away and he went third round. I got that Denzel and Sean were under 6 feet, but Pinck is only a tad taller. We have a tendency to overvalue our kids. I hope we get big production years out of both kids.
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Those two are great examples. Neither had measurables but they had elite instincts (and Perryman had elite striking). We do overvalue our own. Just because they started as true freshmen doesn't mean they guaranteed 1st rounders. Just mean they did not have great comp. Now if they beat out a RS junior all American then I can understand.

If they ball this year and next, then I can see another Perrymen and Spence situation. If it's just this year, teams may worry that it is only one year.
 
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Canesq said:
Agreed. I don't understand why people think Shaq or the other LBs will leave early next year. Lbs are picked early based on size and speed neither of which Shaq has. To be honest, I think his ceiling is 3rd round.

People also assume Richards is guaranteed to leave early as well. He would have to stay healthy AND dominate this season.
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Richards was banged up as a sophmore. It isnt like the dude has been injury prone. He still finished 3rd on the team in receiving yards and he only played 6 or 7 games.
 
Love shaq and pink but don't think they have the elite 1st round measurables. IMO, players with first round POTENTIAL are:

Richards, Thomas, Hightower, J Will, Joe jack, M jack, DJ Dallas, G. Willis with a big year, Vaughn if he continues to develop
 
It's about a creating a culture where winning the Coastal and being a late round draft pick isn't a success.
 
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If Willis can play up to his potential this season, and get drafted in the first couple rounds; you will have a case study in staying in school to develop if you are a big man in the trenches. While his situation is much different than Norton, just imagine watching someone behind you on your sophomore depth chart get draft 5-6 rounds before you would be excruciating.

Just look at the entire N.C. State D-line getting drafted before Norton. All seniors that used that extra year to develop and put it on tape.

It’s a shame for Norton. Should have called Yearby.
 
ALLoverCANE said:
I hate posting on internet message boards, but given how poor the analysis is on this thread, I couldn't help myself...

The previously posted chart shows that there's virtually no difference between the compensation of a 3rd rounder and of a 7th rounder (and do a quick google search for UFA salaries- you'll see that they're the same as a 7th rounder's). But you have 1 more year of income if you leave early, so really you're only better off staying if you're drafted in the top ~50 of the following year. Per the chart, that's the point at which you make more than a draftee in Rounds 3-7/UFA + one full year of earnings. How many guys can actually work themselves into the top 50? Well, not many - less than 50 in the entire country...

So as long as you make a roster, and assuming you develop at the same rate as which you would in college, the vast majority of guys are better off going pro as soon as possible. The first contract has incremental value for only a very small % of players

[And of course I've left off the value of a college degree, yada yada...but many of these guys don't complete their degrees anyways, and they can always come back to finish their credits at a later date. It's certainly valuable, but probably not a needle mover for most guys with realistic shots at an NFL future]
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Now do the number of 3rd rounders who make it to a second contract vs 7th rounder.
 
ALLoverCANE said:
Did you not see the chart someone posted earlier? There is virtually no difference in compensation after Round 2.

The ONLY reasons someone should stay an extra year is if they believe that:

1) They can play themselves into a top 50 selection
2) They won't make a roster in the current year, but would in the next year
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Your analysis is too basic.

Cash bonus of 400,000-600,000 in the fourth round to slightly more than $60,000 in the seventh round. Most 7th rounders are out of the league quick and don’t see all 4 years of the contract. Teams don’t cut 3rd and 4th rounders as quickly.
 
Willis isnt going in the top 2 rounds no matter what he does. Arden key just went 4th round because of off field questions and he was a projected 1st round pick.

They are going to dig into what happened at uf. They are going to find out why he was suspended twice in 2016. And they gone find out what was the situation with him this past season. The best willis is likely looking at with a strong year is 4th round.
 
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