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NFL Combine invites by team (2020)

Ethnicsands said:
See, everyone knows we have had enough talent to win the coastal. That’s really a weak explanation for these nfl list threads.
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So what are you arguing? That’s the whole point of dmoney making his post. No one is saying Miami is putting out early 2000 talent... you don’t have to In order to win the coastal.. let’s start with winning the coastal first with the talent we do have and that we have grossly underachieved with. Some of our most talented teams this decade 2014 team went 6-7 despite having this elite talent you like to talk about( 2 first rounders, 1 2nd rounder and 7 overall draft picks) and this 2019 team went 6-7 despite having a lot of talent. That’s a significant issue and spells a lack of coaching to me. Just win and everything else gets better as it should including recruiting and developing premium draft talent
 
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DMoney said:
Stats, unlike posters, take the rest of the nation into account. They exist outside a Canes bubble. Look at the company we are keeping on each of these lists.

You constantly talk about lack of depth but ignore that our biggest strength is volume of NFL players. It's not just a couple of guys. The 2013 team was an NFL squad.

Recruiting rankings speak to the collective wisdom of college coaches. We're Top 15 and best in the Coastal. NFL salaries speak to the collective wisdom of NFL GMs. We're sixth in the nation. People like our talent when it's not being coached by our coaches. That's why our talent is employed and our coaches aren't.
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We send a couple kids a year to the nfl. Play maybe 50. Volume of nfl kids ain’t the whole picture. What about our volume of empty spots, wasted spots, lack of redshirts, playing true frosh, etc.? Zion Nelson may end up in the NFL. Will you start a thread when he does to conted he was an ‘nfl talent‘ LT in 2019? If not, why not? Might it be because nfl outcomes don’t tell a full picture of a kid at Miami, even for kids who end up there, let alone for our actual roster as a whole? Volume of non-nfl kids is quite obviously the elephant in the room, and you aren’t addressing it or even acknowledging it.

Recruiting rankings are directional. They do not help as much as you seem to suggest if your staff is mediocre at evals, as ours have been for ages. We can go into that all here also.

Look, if your only point is we have had enough talent to win the coastal, then I’m not sure why you’re overplaying your argument. Of course we have.

The ‘13 team underperformed for sure, but now we’re talking about one team, coached by alfraud and dorito. Still, it had poor DL depth and maturity, and a very inexperienced set of DBs many of whom weren’t yet the players we think of them as in retrospect.
 
brock said:
So what are you arguing? That’s the whole point of dmoney making his post. No one is saying Miami is putting out early 2000 talent... you don’t have to In order to win the coastal.. let’s start with winning the coastal first with the talent we do have and that we have grossly underachieved with. Some of our most talented teams this decade 2014 team went 6-7 despite having this elite talent you like to talk about( 2 first rounders, 1 2nd rounder and 7 overall draft picks) and this 2019 team went 6-7 despite having a lot of talent. That’s a significant issue and spells a lack of coaching to me. Just win and everything else gets better as it should
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If you aren’t aware that we’ve had this exact discussion over and over, D$ and I, in threads you have been in, then you may have a memory issue.

Our coaching has sucked. Obviously. It’s also meant mediocre evals and terrible roster management. These threads are delusional, imo, if they lead people to think we have not had roster talent issues. We absolutely have. It’s not hard to grasp. We take 25 kids a year and 2-3 may have sustained nfl careers. The other 22-23 matter a lot as to how we play in college. Empty spots, lack of balance, lack of depth, lack of line strength, poor QBs, insufficient competition, these are all roster talent issues. We’ve had roster messes since Coker, over and over. So spare me the Jimmy Graham violin concerto. This fanbase is deluding itself about the past decade. Bad coaching, flawed rosters. Hopefully the ’20s are kinder to us.
 
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If folks here are just trying to confirm for themselves that our coaching has stunk, well that’s awkward. I mean, of course it’s stunk. That’s why they get fired.

But these bad coaches are also the guys who have been recruiting, evaluating and doing rooster management for us. What are the chances that we consistently hire coaches who are great at evals and roster management, just bad at coaching? 5 in a row?

Why not take Occam’s Razor to the topic? Isn’t it more likely that bad coaches are bad at multiple aspects of the job, and a couple ok nfl guys a year is just the wrong way to assess effective roster talent on an 85 man roster?
 
Ethnicsands said:
But these bad coaches are also the guys who have been recruiting, evaluating and doing rooster management for us.
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Correct. We are blessed to root for a program that can consistently attract talent despite incompetence.
 
DMoney said:
How do we compare to the rest of the country in “volume of non-nfl kids?”
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Quite obviously poorly, insofar as our guys haven’t played well enough. We have had too many empty spots, too many wasted scholarships, we’ve been bad at retaining kids, we’ve had to play true frosh far too much because of necessity, we haven't redshirted sufficiently, we’ve had too much position group imbalance. Just absolutely atrocious roster management going back to Coker.
 
Ethnicsands said:
Quite obviously poorly, insofar as our guys haven’t played well enough.
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So we have more “non-NFL players” than the rest of the country, despite having the third-most NFL players in the country?

Just trying to understand the math here.
 
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DMoney said:
Stats, unlike posters, take the rest of the nation into account. They exist outside a Canes bubble. Look at the company we are keeping on each of these lists.

You constantly talk about lack of depth but ignore that our biggest strength is volume of NFL players. It's not just a couple of guys. The 2013 team was an NFL squad.

Recruiting rankings speak to the collective wisdom of college coaches. We're Top 15 and best in the Coastal. NFL salaries speak to the collective wisdom of NFL GMs. We're sixth in the nation. People like our talent when it's not being coached by our coaches. That's why our talent is employed and our coaches aren't.
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By all means, run the numbers for the rest of the Top 25.

Just some examples --

Wisconsin - 35 Players in NFL; 17 Starters (49%); 8 2nd Stringers (23%); 10 Deep Backups (29%)
Florida - 45 Players in the NFL; 17 Starters (38%); 14 2nd Stringers (31%); 14 Deep Backups (31%)
USC - 39 Players in the NFL; 17 Starters (44%); 11 2nd Stringers (28%); 11 Deep Backups (28%)

Miami was at 38/24/38.

You'd likely see a similar trend throughout the Top 25 (not the elites, it'd be far better for them).

As has been told to you, Miami just has a disproportionate number of deep backups and practice squad types that litter your raw number lists. The volume throughout the past decade-plus just rolls from year to year with your deep bench and practice squad being filled with just different names. One year its Dee Delaney, another its Brandon McGee, another year its Marcus Forston.
 
DMoney said:
Correct. We are blessed to root for a program that can consistently attract talent despite incompetence.
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Sure, it can. But that doesn’t mean our rosters have been well managed. That doesn’t mean we have evaluated well, either. Just look at the ‘80s, ‘90s and ‘00s vs the ‘10s. I wrote it above. We put out better nfl talent in the 1970s than the 2010s. That’s pathetic.

Just look at NFL all pro teams. Plenty of so fla guys we could or should of gotten.

Just notice how few all Americans we’ve been producing.
 
DMoney said:
So we have more “non-NFL players” than the rest of the country, despite having the third-most NFL players in the country?

Just trying to understand the math here.
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You are not trying to understand. That’s the issue. You’re apparently trying hard not to understand.

If we put out 2-3 kids a year who have sustained nfl careers, then there are still >70 kids on the roster who won’t. Compare those pools. 10 future solid pros vs. ~75 other guys. Did you ever wonder whether our 75 other guys, ain’t stacking up well enough vs. other teams? Isn’t that a fair topic to consider? (And what if our ‘nfl guys’ are playing as true frosh before they’re ready?) You seem to think that the few nfl kids is somehow indicative of the talent of the rest of the kids, and hence overall roster. I’d say that seems like an unlikely assumption.
 
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Ethnicsands said:
Sure, it can. But that doesn’t mean our rosters have been well managed. That doesn’t mean we have evaluated well, either. Just look at the ‘80s, ‘90s and ‘00s vs the ‘10s. I wrote it above. We put out better nfl talent in the 1970s than the 2010s. That’s pathetic.

Just look at NFL all pro teams. Plenty of so fla guys we could or should of gotten.

Just notice how few all Americans we’ve been producing.
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The all American comment is pretty irrelevant when you have guys like greg Rousseau with the season he just had not receive any all American consideration. These writers don’t like Miami period so they aren’t going to vote for the players like that so it doesn’t say much of anything.
 
Ethnicsands said:
You are not trying to understand. That’s the issue. You’re apparently trying hard not to understand.
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Explain it to me in basic math, since I’m struggling.

You said we have more “non-NFL players” than other teams. But we have more NFL players than all but two teams.

Do we just have larger rosters?
 
Miami put out better nfl talent in ‘95-‘99 than it has the past decade. Those were the down years.

I will go further than I have yet on this topic. The recruiting bias towards pro measurables has been a disaster for this program. We have not had coaches who know how to evaluate well since Butch, so they default towards athletic traits. The result just by basic math in a large pool is a few extra outliers who make the pros and too many blown evals and bad overall roster groups.

We need more strength, better depth, more kids who redshirt, fewer true frosh starting before they are ready, more 4th and 5th year seniors, more overall toughness, more overall competition.
 
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DMoney said:
Explain it to me in basic math, since I’m struggling.

You said we have more “non-NFL players” than other teams. But we have more NFL players than all but two teams.

Do we just have larger rosters?
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I just spelled it out for you. Try to read my comment. No need to try to play word games, either. The point is obvious. The great majority of the roster are kids who won’t have meaningful nfl careers. Maybe you should consider how we stack up there, too, onstead of being distracted by a couple kids who have good nfl careers.
 
brock said:
The all American comment is pretty irrelevant when you have guys like greg Rousseau with the season he just had not receive any all American consideration. These writers don’t like Miami period so they aren’t going to vote for the players like that so it doesn’t say much of anything.
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That is absurd. It’s not at all irrelevant. We’re just so desperate as a fan base that we overplay and overrate everything. He had a very good freshman year. Our team sucked. He didn’t start for a while. No dishonor that he wasn’t an all american.

Which kids have we had who legit deserved AA honors and got screwed out of them, the past decade?
 
Ethnicsands said:
No need to plsy word games, either.
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No word games. Just repeating what you said. Did you misspeak?
The great majority of the roster are kids who won’t have meaningful nfl careers. Maybe you should consider how we stack up there, too, onstead of being distracted by a couple kids who have good nfl careers.
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We stack up high there, too, if you look at recruiting rankings. Other schools wanted our players.

But we’re supposed to ignore recruiting rankings. And NFL numbers. And NFL salaries. The best measure of our talent is the opinion of posters who don’t know what other rosters look like. The stats are just a distraction.
 
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